You probably only get replies from oldsters who remember what freedom felt like.

None of us is old enough to have been around when the roots of a fascist state were first instilled in our government. The Insurrection Act, established in 1807 (!) gives exclusive right and authority to the President to declare a state to be in a condition of insurrection against the federal government, based on a perception that rights are being denied to some or all residents of the state, and that the governor is either incapable or unwilling to eliminate the insurrection. The President can declare martial law in the insurrectionist state(s) and abolish the state government(s). Congress has no right of review or consent under this law, and the courts cannot stop the action, since it has been adopted under the Constitution. Frightening, eh?

The Patriot act, and subsequent measures are rooted in this older measure. Aside from President Lincoln relying on the powers granted under the Insurrection Act, we've been miraculously, blissfully unaware that the Executive had authority to wield such power. It's a credit to those who've held the highest office since 1807 that only one felt compelled to exercise fully the power of a dictator (although Wilson and FDR skirted close to it).

Allosauer:
I though a Dino would enjoy a good sloshing, or is the water too stinky even for you? The beltway is not filled with bad children needing their hand's slapped, but murderous felons who need their bodies electrified, or their necks stretched.

Yeah...I think about this often. Frankly, I think that enough Americans simply don't get it. By "enough" I mean "a vast majority". They're soft, naive, addled to the point of not even comprehending true freedom. Many like having their freedoms taken.

With the Kennedy assasination it has pretty much been the Bushes Clinton ballgame. Now it is part of the uncivil war.

the choice is to go quietly into the dark or challenge the slide toward totalitarianism...catch it in words they will see as end of their world of expectations and maybe they will want to hear more...plants seeds of hope...

"The Patriot Act" is the codification and hence justification of bureaucrats to do anything to promote the extortion of the citizen to get what is wanted from them. It authorizes imprisonment, confiscation, no due process with just an accusation of an officer of the state. No one even has to be notified that you have been removed from society. This is all the justification any bureaucrat needs to feel they are morally and 'legally' allowed to do whatever they choose. The more this law is used the more liberally it will be applied. There is only a slim difference of degree in what is happening here compared to Stalinist Russia and over time it will come to that degree. What most people don't realize is that even in Stalinist Russia or Mao Tse Tung's China most people never ran afoul of the government henchmen in that they did not go to jail. That is small comfort to those who spent time in prison, were tortured, starved and died by the millions in order to keep the rest in line by the use of terror to live a dehumanized gray existence just trying to survive instead of trying to achieve. Knowing that any excellence might get you noticed and you the would be a victim of the system of terror.
Part of the reason this continues is because most want it, accept it or at the very least don't believe it. It reminds me of a story I read about early in the start of the German pogrom to exterminate a religious group, one of the first Jews to end up in a concentration camp and was able to escape and returned to his religious community where he warned his friends and family about what was happening. None believed him, it was not possible they said. He left alone for America. Those that stayed died by the millions.

Something similar to the patriot act is going down here currently. The government is trying to implement a new law which would give the dutch intelligence services (and the police) the right to mass collect and analyse the data of people (and everybody near to them) if they are suspected of high-end crimes.

This wasn't liked by a lot of people so they collected signatures to get an advisory referendum regarding this (we don't have binding referenda in the netherlands). Even before this referendum has taken place had the ruling coalition has declared that they would not follow result of the referendum.

Herb, before I discovered Objectivism, I thought I was liberal or libertarian. I protested the war in Iraq in 2002 and was an outspoken critic of the Patriot Act before anyone I knew decided it was a big problem. I guess when I realized the Democrats were just as bad as the Republicans, I decided I was libertarian. I guess when I realized Objectivism was an integrated philosophy, in 2004, I haven't changed since.

The Patriot Act provisions are directly from Orwell or Kafka indeed. At the time it was passed, I feel the Act was worse than AR makes the Sherman Act out to be - which is also not very good, to say the least. The Patriot Act signaled the end of American ideals more than the falling of the twin towers, in my opinion. And for everyone reading, I do not take that statement lightly.

From information sharing between previously distinct agencies, to roving wiretaps, to record access, to foreign wiretaps, to sneak and peak, these are all a slaps in the faces of due process and sovereignty, whether individual or national. This bill is actually how the terrorists of 911 really inflicted their damage, with our government's consent. From the Patriot Act forward, I could not trust either major party.

What do you no longer believe about the Founders? I am "with Reagan", still...no fear, here!

Please excuse the typos. When I get excited, I go all dyslexic.