Kafka, Orwell and the Patriot Act

Posted by Herb7734 11 months, 2 weeks ago to Culture
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When certain men and/or women wearing modestly priced suits and shiny shoes quote the Patriot Act to you and ask you questions you might be tempted to not answer. But take my advice, if you value your time, you'll answer, because as they will explain to you that under the Patriot Act most of your rights as a private citizen are diminished or no longer there.. Under such interrogation, what is happening to you may seem strangely familiar, because if you have read any Orwell or Kafka or Lee Child the proceedings come out of the nightmare that exists when rationality no longer is a part of interrogation but interpretation and you are subjected to what the authors only imagined and you are living through. And, you may well ask yourself, "Hold on, whatever happened to America? How could an American congress pass a law so anti- Constitutional and actually put it into practice?" Has fear caused us to give up our freedom? Are we no longer the home of the Brave, but the land of the Fraidy-Cats? So now, when I see up on the screen the portrayal of true American heroes, should I question their realyty, or should I espouse my credibility to comic book super heroes?. It ooks as if superheroes, those larger than life characters in spandex and capes are the delusional answers, hens Donald Trump the closest thing to a superhero is President sans the spandex.

Mamn, I love The Gulch. Anywhere else and I'd likely be laughed off onto Facebook. Just think, for about 50 of my 83 years I believed all the things I learned about the founders, and the history and I was with Reagan 100% and his shining city on the hill, but it's shut down by a bunch of "Patriots."


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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 11 months, 1 week ago
    None of us is old enough to have been around when the roots of a fascist state were first instilled in our government. The Insurrection Act, established in 1807 (!) gives exclusive right and authority to the President to declare a state to be in a condition of insurrection against the federal government, based on a perception that rights are being denied to some or all residents of the state, and that the governor is either incapable or unwilling to eliminate the insurrection. The President can declare martial law in the insurrectionist state(s) and abolish the state government(s). Congress has no right of review or consent under this law, and the courts cannot stop the action, since it has been adopted under the Constitution. Frightening, eh?

    The Patriot act, and subsequent measures are rooted in this older measure. Aside from President Lincoln relying on the powers granted under the Insurrection Act, we've been miraculously, blissfully unaware that the Executive had authority to wield such power. It's a credit to those who've held the highest office since 1807 that only one felt compelled to exercise fully the power of a dictator (although Wilson and FDR skirted close to it).
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  • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
    Allosauer:
    I though a Dino would enjoy a good sloshing, or is the water too stinky even for you? The beltway is not filled with bad children needing their hand's slapped, but murderous felons who need their bodies electrified, or their necks stretched.
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    • Posted by  $  allosaur 11 months, 1 week ago
      Check out my Youtube tribute. See a stinky swamp anywhere? Oh, you'll see some fresh water I need to drink.
      Me dino does not like swamps. Swamp creatures taste really bad and I don't slither.
      To be able to run over 30 MPH on solid ground is my best hunting tool.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-Zgj...
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      • Posted by 11 months, 1 week ago
        Isn't strange that Washington is a bigger swamp than any in Florida or Louisiana .Here in FL there are plenty of swamps but none of them smell as bad as Washington's..
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        • Posted by  $  allosaur 11 months, 1 week ago
          Go into any swamp, nothing there gives a damn if you live or die or have you reputation ruined.
          Should a "Mr. Smith Goes To Washington" to big time fix things in that particular swamp this day and age, some (possibly paid by George Soros) skank may very well claim she was raped or molested.
          Then should Mr. Smith not go away, another skank shall appear. Then another and another and another and another into a freaking swamp swarm of horrific harpies.
          That worked on Herman Cain. Before his first harpy appeared, my impression of his wife was that she was sweet but seemed quite fragile for a potential first lady. My theory is that she had everything to do with Cain backing down as a perceived threat by Team Obamanation.
          Why am I'm thinking about what did not work to get rid of Trump? Oh, well . . .
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          • Posted by 11 months, 1 week ago
            That is a perfect illustration of why Rand says that a male hero requires a female hero for a mate.
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            • Posted by  $  allosaur 11 months, 1 week ago
              Last night channel surfing just before I cut the TV off, I happened to catch Mrs. Roy Moore speak up for her "swamped" with accusations husband, saying she had been married to him for 30-something years and that he was the most kind and gentle man she ever knew.
              My take was that this is one heck of a very strong woman.
              Heard Rush say that the RINO Establishmen intends to shoo-fly the judge even if he wins.
              Well, even if me dino breaks his leg an hour before going to the polls, I'll drag myself all the way to vote for Moore if I have to.
              Damn the RINO Establishment and all else that's corrupt as hell about this country!
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              • Posted by 11 months, 1 week ago
                You're not alone.
                I wonder how many men would be convicted of sexual misconduct based upon the way they acted in high school.most teen boys are walking erections at that age. That's why dad's are so protective of daughters, because they were once one of those boys.
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                • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 months, 1 week ago
                  "I wonder how many men would be convicted of sexual misconduct"
                  If the man's not too famous, you can probably get away with saying you're "shocked and appalled" at such behavior, and then they won't look at you.

                  I can't stand the notion of making someone feel uncomfortable or pushing someone around in anyway. I think people should avoid saying offensive things, and calling that basic decency "PC" is a lame strawman. But this sexual misconduct thing has a witch trial mentality.

                  Frankly, it does not make me feel protective toward my daughter. If she grows up and has the opportunity of a lifetime but she has to put up with someone being a creep, the opportunity is not worth it. There is always another opportunity, even if it doesn't feel like it. That goes for sexual harassment and for mundane things like real estate deals. There's always another building, house, or whatever. I will tell both my kids if they ever start thinking "this is my only chance, OMG!!" to walk away and calm down. You will make bad decisions. Putting up with creepy behavior is just one possible bad decision among many. I really hope she wouldn't be like some of these women, sucking her thumb and rocking in terror at the creepiness and unfairness of it all.

                  I feel weird saying this aloud. If I were famous, some ex-g/f would come out of the woodwork with some stupid thing I legitimately did that got repeated in a feedback loop in her mind for 20 years. If anyone tries to say that being a creep to job candidate wrong but not the worst crime, the lynch mob goes straight for the continuum fallacy and says that means you're okay with groping, raping and intentionally infecting people with HIV. https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...

                  I think we've gone way overboard on sexual harassment.
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                  • Posted by freedomforall 11 months, 1 week ago
                    "some stupid thing I legitimately did that got repeated in a feedback loop in her mind"
                    I can tell you for certain that can happen. When I was visiting some relatives, one of the daughters was about 8 and was constantly being a spoiled brat. I had enough, took her to her room, and yelled at her to lie down and shut up. Twenty years later she "remembered" it as a "sexual assault". At first I couldn't even recall the incident because it was so trivial, but eventually I did and reminded her parents of the exact situation and they agreed with my recollection completely. We live in an idiotic statist society where such a fraudulent story can ruin innocent people without any evidence whatsoever.
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              • Posted by  $  Dobrien 11 months, 1 week ago
                This in the last week is claimed to be sexual harassment.
                There's little dispute about whatMinn Rep. Cornish texted to minn rep maya Quade, who shared them with MPR News. The texts from Cornish read:

                • "I just got an anonymous text saying I got busted for staring at you on the house floor,,,.Haha"
                • "I told him it was your fault, of course. Look too damn good. Ha."
                • "I must be more gentlemanly when I run for Governor."

                Maye Quade responded, "You can always start now!"

                In response to questions Thursday about those texts, Cornish said he was surprised by Maye Quade's complaint.

                "Over the last year, I have maintained a friendly and professional relationship with Rep. Maye Quade," he said in a written statement. "As with many members, we have exchanged texts, emails and phone calls. It came to my attention today that I offended Rep. Maye Quade in one of the text messages. This was a poor attempt at humor with a colleague and I sincerely apologize."
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                • Posted by 11 months, 1 week ago
                  I fear for the human race when a virile man at the height of his manhood is restrained from staring at an attractive female. I do it all the time but I'm no rapist.. Although I must confess that the way women dress today is like waving a red flag at a bull.A sexilly dressed woman is far sluttier than a naked one.I'm at an age where any accusation is harmless to me. What happens if you demote a private? He becomes a civilian. Win - win. .
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                • Posted by  $  allosaur 11 months, 1 week ago
                  Oh, for goodness sakes! Be still my beating heart!
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                  • Posted by  $  Dobrien 11 months, 1 week ago
                    This is just fine though https://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...
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                    • Posted by  $  allosaur 11 months, 1 week ago
                      Me dino wonders for the first time ever if there is such a thing as bigamy among lesbian married couples.
                      Second thought: Well, among any legally/illegally married same sex triples, quadruples, whatever.
                      Third thought: I think mixing in sheep, goat, and any other critters may be a separate conversation.
                      Well, maybe. What do I know?
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                      • Posted by  $  Dobrien 11 months, 1 week ago
                        I think you do know .https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COFBy-OFlos This performance is a recreation of a witches sabbat.
                        Witches' Sabbath is a meeting of those who practice witchcraft and other rites. Distinguishable features that are typically contained within a Witches' Sabbat are assembly by foot, beast, or flight, a banquet, dancing and cavorting, and sexual intercourse.[1][2]
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                        • Posted by 11 months, 1 week ago
                          If you want to hear great witches sabbath music check out the 5th movement of Symphonie Fantastique by Berlioz. To fully understand it listen to 1st and or 2nd movements for the love theme, then hear what he does to it in the 5th movement . horrifyingly amazing.Another graphically music for Halloween is A Night On Bald Mountain by Moussorgsky.. Quite demonic. So much so that he forced himself to write a hymn at the finale so he wouldn't condemn himself to hell..
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                        • Posted by  $  allosaur 11 months, 1 week ago
                          Me dino grew up loving horror movies and what I saw that stupid musical number did not impress me at all.
                          Not liking the music, must confess I briefly skipped along through that until I hit a rapper. Well, that finished that.
                          Rap always turning me dino off, me dino always turns off rap.
                          In my previous post, I meant to write same-sex sheep, goats and other critters. My bad.
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                          • Posted by  $  Dobrien 11 months, 1 week ago
                            It's not entertainment to me either.
                            If a satanic ritual is performed for the entertainment industry that bastion of morality
                            It can't be for the greater good can it.
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                            • Posted by  $  allosaur 11 months, 1 week ago
                              Not sure what they were up to besides a pathetic attempt to make money by looking cool to clueless young people.
                              There could have been some satanists or at least some silly Wiccan witches behind the scenes.
                              Only The Shadow knows any performing dark arts from artsy-fartsy for sure.
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  • Posted by Abaco 11 months, 2 weeks ago
    Yeah...I think about this often. Frankly, I think that enough Americans simply don't get it. By "enough" I mean "a vast majority". They're soft, naive, addled to the point of not even comprehending true freedom. Many like having their freedoms taken.
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  • Posted by chad 11 months, 1 week ago
    "The Patriot Act" is the codification and hence justification of bureaucrats to do anything to promote the extortion of the citizen to get what is wanted from them. It authorizes imprisonment, confiscation, no due process with just an accusation of an officer of the state. No one even has to be notified that you have been removed from society. This is all the justification any bureaucrat needs to feel they are morally and 'legally' allowed to do whatever they choose. The more this law is used the more liberally it will be applied. There is only a slim difference of degree in what is happening here compared to Stalinist Russia and over time it will come to that degree. What most people don't realize is that even in Stalinist Russia or Mao Tse Tung's China most people never ran afoul of the government henchmen in that they did not go to jail. That is small comfort to those who spent time in prison, were tortured, starved and died by the millions in order to keep the rest in line by the use of terror to live a dehumanized gray existence just trying to survive instead of trying to achieve. Knowing that any excellence might get you noticed and you the would be a victim of the system of terror.
    Part of the reason this continues is because most want it, accept it or at the very least don't believe it. It reminds me of a story I read about early in the start of the German pogrom to exterminate a religious group, one of the first Jews to end up in a concentration camp and was able to escape and returned to his religious community where he warned his friends and family about what was happening. None believed him, it was not possible they said. He left alone for America. Those that stayed died by the millions.
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    • Posted by 11 months, 1 week ago
      And it's supported by the government run press. Why are we such fools 911 caused the need for revenge hence the P>A> just to make sure our own citizens weren't conspiratorially in volved.
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      • Posted by freedomforall 11 months, 1 week ago
        The PA never looks at those with the connections to make 911 a reality. The DHS looks at the innocent primarily and ignores the actions of the looters because they work on behalf of the looters. This will continue until there is nothing left to loot unless someone finds the courage to oppose them. The moral fiber to do so has not been encouraged; it has, in fact, been made politically incorrect by public education, by almost all higher education, and by corporate leaders interested in getting their piece of what they see as a shrinking pie. It's inconvenient to be ethical, to oppose evil, and to honestly compete.
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  • Posted by maxxal22 11 months, 2 weeks ago
    Something similar to the patriot act is going down here currently. The government is trying to implement a new law which would give the dutch intelligence services (and the police) the right to mass collect and analyse the data of people (and everybody near to them) if they are suspected of high-end crimes.

    This wasn't liked by a lot of people so they collected signatures to get an advisory referendum regarding this (we don't have binding referenda in the netherlands). Even before this referendum has taken place had the ruling coalition has declared that they would not follow result of the referendum.
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  • Posted by rbroberg 11 months, 2 weeks ago
    Herb, before I discovered Objectivism, I thought I was liberal or libertarian. I protested the war in Iraq in 2002 and was an outspoken critic of the Patriot Act before anyone I knew decided it was a big problem. I guess when I realized the Democrats were just as bad as the Republicans, I decided I was libertarian. I guess when I realized Objectivism was an integrated philosophy, in 2004, I haven't changed since.

    The Patriot Act provisions are directly from Orwell or Kafka indeed. At the time it was passed, I feel the Act was worse than AR makes the Sherman Act out to be - which is also not very good, to say the least. The Patriot Act signaled the end of American ideals more than the falling of the twin towers, in my opinion. And for everyone reading, I do not take that statement lightly.

    From information sharing between previously distinct agencies, to roving wiretaps, to record access, to foreign wiretaps, to sneak and peak, these are all a slaps in the faces of due process and sovereignty, whether individual or national. This bill is actually how the terrorists of 911 really inflicted their damage, with our government's consent. From the Patriot Act forward, I could not trust either major party.
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    • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
      I find it interesting how various "acts" are touted to be for our best interests but in reality are just another variation on limiting our freedom. I'm getting to the point where I need to settle for anything that veers to the right instead of openly pushing us left.. There is no doubt that Objectivists and a few others are little Dutch boys with their fingers in the dike, holding back the whole ocean of leftist ideology being promoted by the media, by politics,and by entertainment .. By the way media people as well as certain politicians don't seem to realize that they are the harbingers of their own destruction.
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      • Posted by  $  Dobrien 11 months, 2 weeks ago
        I watched a video of a former Soviet KGB guy who's job was to assist the rebels in a coup install Marxist regimes. He stated that the most vocal for the overthrowing the establishment were the first to be executed because they cried the loudest when the reality of an inferior system became evident. Useful idiots is what the are called.
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        • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
          Good old Trotsky coined "Useful idiots" I believe, and eventually became one of them himself. he had his own bullet lodged in his body for his contributions.. I think that the Libertarians have something with their idea of rather than he who governs least governs best changed to he who governs not at all governs best, Problem: The Human Race has not progressed to that point as yet. We are far too immature.
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          • Posted by  $  Dobrien 11 months, 2 weeks ago
            War. Violence as an industry. We are stuck with a huge defense expense .How productive is that for humanity? The real world is permeated with evil leaders that see and use their citizens as pawns.
            I have witnessed like a slow moving domino pattern the fall of opportunity and freedom for the individual in the US. After spending Trillions supposedly defending those free Americans rights and ideals.
            The enemy is within. It is in an undeclared Uncivil war against the individuals. The opposition to this take over are all very effectively labeled. Rednecks, Racists , White supremacists, Bigots
            On and on and on. This is effective to eliminate free speech or honest discourse. But really who gives a rats ass what anyone else is doing or what lineage they derive from. let alone spend time to Oppress people , really only a govt can do that.
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            • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
              Very insightful. True, our country is decaying from within and while you have witnessed it, few others have. We have been doped by the prosperity of our past. It has brought us prosperity beyond past imagination and has made us subject to it as dope creates a dependency that isn't easy to shrug off. As long as we can keep our prosperity, our homes, our cars' our TV's as a buffer between us and reality we are not too concerned. But when the collectivists finally, irrevocably win, the illusion of the pile of stuff will disappear bit by bi, and as that happens, the reality of central regulation and its failure becomes clear, then and only then will humanity see that the supposed chaos of non-regulation is the only way for humans to exists. It may bring back the "shootist" and the "regulator" but what is better, the gunfighter or the police?
              It sounds crazy, I know, but there is no such thing as any kind of government that works. The USA came the closest, but see and smell the cesspool we named after one of the truly great men among us.
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              • Posted by  $  amhunt 11 months, 1 week ago
                It does not sound crazy to me. I see human history as the story of people uniting and forming a government to defend themselves against thugs only to find after some period of time that this very government has been corrupted, resulting in exactly the thing they were trying to defend against.
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              • Posted by  $  Dobrien 11 months, 2 weeks ago
                I can not tell a lie I chopped down that cherry tree. If anyone would ever turn over in his grave for what his namesake has become. The prosperity and potential in recent decades for this US has been squandered looted and abused.
                We have been like a 69 Charger running on 1/2 the cylinders. It still looks good but no performance.
                Without care even the shine will dull.
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  • Posted by kkeen842 11 months, 1 week ago
    What do you no longer believe about the Founders? I am "with Reagan", still...no fear, here!
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    • Posted by 11 months, 1 week ago
      Did I say the Founders? If so, I attribute it to my age. Yes, many of them owned slaves, but what great minds they had considering the times.To put individual freedom as the basis for a government, brilliant! Way, way ahead of their time. They wouldn't even consider today's Washington.
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  • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
    Please excuse the typos. When I get excited, I go all dyslexic.
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    • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 11 months, 2 weeks ago
      Maybe not dyslexic...maybe typing ahead of one's thoughts...that's what happens to me.
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      • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
        I am such a bad, slow typist that I'll uuse any excuse .
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        • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 11 months, 2 weeks ago
          I think there are things on the internet that screw up one's ability to type his thoughts out correctly.
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          • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
            I have lost my ability to understand what's going on within the beltway. Washington is so corrupt that I no longer recognize it. If congress and certain parts of the DOJ are as they appear to be there is no use doing anything as they will distort, delay or downright eliminate anything the stirs up the swamp or corrects anything. It looks as if being a Washington politician mean to be the very essence of corruption, and sinc I won't involve myself in that cesspool, I might as well simply shut up.
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            • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 11 months, 2 weeks ago
              Many factions, special interests and criminals with very few Conscious Americans.
              Sometimes I wonder how long a Conscious Being would survive that environment before being tricked, coerced or vaccinated into selling their soul to the devil.

              Is there really a non-violent way to just pull the plug and let it drain...
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              • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
                Yes, but it means dissolution.You see, we are constantly told that chaos is bad. Things must be orderly in an orderly world, which is simply not true If he who governs least governs best, then he who governs not at all is best. Unfortunately, the human race has not matured to that point. If it ever does. It may not be capable of self regulation. There used to be men called "regulators" who were hired guns to take care of disputes (see "Shane"). But true anarchy is not possible for a race that judges people by how they talk rather than what they do.
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      • Posted by 11 months, 2 weeks ago
        Thanks, Carl, but I've had this thing before they had a word for it.I would be merrily writing along , but when I read what I had written how come certain sections seemed as is I had been having a long conversation with Jack Daniels?
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        • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 11 months, 2 weeks ago
          Maybe when your merrily writing along...Jack Daniels should stay at home...

          You know, I see many others, including myself making the same mistakes...is, instead of if,,, The, when you intended on typing they?...not exactly upside down nor backwards...if you ask me...I think someone slipped the internet a micky!...When I am away from it for a while...I don't do those things.

          But, in any event... we still get what you, me and everyone is talking about.
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