Winter Gulch locations?

Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago to The Gulch: General
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We have discussed some possibilities for a future Gulch location. For starters, let's assume we will buy an island, rather than build one on "stilts" from a underground reef. Because of the list of islands in a web site listed below ranks islands in reverse order of quality, to make it easier to scroll through options, I have used their numbering system (and added to it).

Freedomforall makes the following recommendation:
14) An option is Guanaja in the Honduras Bay Islands. He has good friends who own a diving resort there. Great people from Texas. See:
http://www.clearwaterparadise.com/
Freedomforall also discussed Bonaire and Curacao down in the far southeastern

First, the EBay possibilities:

13. 55 acre private with several condos and amenities already developed $4 million, Abaco, Bahamas

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Private-Island-F...

12. 5 acre private island off of Nicaraguan coast $100 K with one home, but reserve not met

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BEAUTIFUL-5-ACRE...

11. 3 acres undeveloped private island 10 miles from Daytona Beach, FL $10 K opening bid for down payment

http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-Acre-Private-I...

http://www.islands.com/gallery/top-10-pr...

10. Kastawei Island, Vanuatu: $199,000 - too small for the Gulch
9. Tahifehifa Island, Tonga: $370,205 - too small for the Gulch
8. Pink Pearl Island, Nicaragua: $500,000 - too small for the Gulch
7. Motu Opuou, French Polynesia: $742,886 - too small for the Gulch
6. Pelican Cay, Bahamas: $2,500,000
5. Bannister Caye, Belize: $2,500,000
4. Dumunpalit, Philippines: $3,400,000
3. Portofino Caye, Belize: $4,500,000
2. Manuhangi Atoll, French Polynesia: $8,667,003
1. Saddle Back Cay, Bahamas: $12,995,000

Personally, out of all these I like Option 13 in Abaco on the Bahamas best.

None of the above is an option.
If interested, rank your three favorite choices, with best first.
Brenner example: 13, 3, 12

Write-in votes will be considered.
A summer Gulch will be considered in a thread at some point in the future.



All Comments

  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Goodonya, Khalling. After looking at the list of islands, Australian islands look like a pretty reasonable option. No worries, mate.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 8 months ago in reply to this comment.
    talked this evening with a guy who has a home in San. Juan del Sur, Nicaragua. He says there is good infrastructure however with all central american countries there is corruption. no violence in his town. about 2-2.5 hours from the capital. there is lots of violence there.

    I have some friends who vacationed on Vanuatu. extremely limited goods, iffy services (internet) people aren't that friendly. just giving info
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 8 months ago
    A comprehensive list of islands for sale is at

    http://www.privateislandsonline.com/isla...


    Australian islands appear to have the best value per acre. After that, Vanuatu, Honduras, Fiji, French Polynesia, Panama, and Nicaragua are all pretty close. Some Bahamian islands, particularly in the Abacos, are also worth considering.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago
    Option 13 for the inexpensive ($4 million for 55 acre island) is now off the market, but back on the market as

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/171407721682#ht_...

    Make sure to look at the whole EBay ad before rejecting it out of hand. One of the earlier questions was about ownership or long term lease. This one would be a 199 year lease on Abaco Island in the northeastern Bahamas.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Trade is an important part of the Gulch, but the trade was between those who gave value for value. Trading with the outside world will be a firestorm of a debate, but we must have it.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    ")If located in the US the gulch will be subject to the full power of the corrupt federal government and to all the unconstitutional legal looting that impiles. The US fedgov has an incentive to destroy any gulch anywhere in the world,"
    What if it were a "concierge Gulch", in the sense of concierge from the Lean Startup. The foundation would agree to pay to taxes and do tax prep and regulatory mitigation for firms approved to locate there. Eventually they thrive so much the foundation can't afford to pay. It goes to the US gov't and shows what it has accomplished and how it could scale up if only they'd offer some tax abatement deals.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    There's so much benefit to trade. Trade is at the core of what I understand a Gulch to be about. IMHO a Gulch should encourage trade with the outside world. But some Gulches could be open and others closed to trade.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agree on Guam, it's very dependent on US Navy. I think a lot of potential gulchers will opt out if the location is too remote. The gulch in AS did not really deal with onset of age related difficulties and for a real gulch to succeed, it must do so.
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  • Posted by $ johnrobert2 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    My primary consideration is the ability to form a cohesive community which can control access to it. An island group which is fairly isolated from normal traffic lanes would seem the best option. The IDL should not prove a problem. I have spent two tours in the military on that side of it and, so long as you have a watch or clock which can be programmed to two or more time zones, you should not have a problem. Guam might a bit of a sticky wicket as it is already well settled with two US military bases on the island as well as a thriving Japanese tourist industry. The Marshalls might bear further investigation. Let me take a quick check on Google. Looks like a small group of low-lying atolls, sparsely populated (if the Google satellite photos are accurate. Doesn't seem to offer much in the way of protection from tropical storms of any strength. Evacuation would be a way of life. My perfect fit would be the island on which Harrison Ford and Ann Heche found themselves in "Six Days, Seven Nights'. Now, THAT'S an island.
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    True that. That's why I was thinking along the lines of forest land-I've seen large tracts that are undeveloped that are still, by the acre, relatively cheap and, for the right negotiator, available. :-)
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    55 acres is not a lot of room, but size must be balanced against affordability. Population density is a serious issue to work through.
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 10 years, 9 months ago
    To make a true self-sufficient gulch, you need room. 55 acres, while it may seem like a lot... isn't. Its about enough for a few cattle, maybe a small business, but for more than a small family, it's not big enough to sustain anything like a life. Just my opinion, but 40 acres (manually) was considered a minimal allotment for one family to survive. 55 acres for a number of separate people - add industry, farming, water, electricity generation, etc... it just wouldn't work.

    If I had my druthers - I'd want it on something like 20-40+ square -miles- of something like forestry land, with power nearby (or generate-able) and water as well. . There was a reason that the Gulch was originally in a large-ish (yet secluded) valley in Colorado - natural resources, room to build and grow, and space for a few hundred to live comfortably and produce what they needed - physically and mentally - to survive.

    To do a true *gulch* in the AR sense, you can't live in a world where you need to rely on outside (non-gulch) resources. To me - that's paramount. And that would be the prime consideration of a "gulch". while I haven't done the research on the sites (yet), none of these seem to fit that bill.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    This may be true, but have to consider much more than purchase price of land to get to cost/benefit though.
    I do know someone in the Marshall Islands and in Guam if interested.
    Suggest also that closer to North America may be more practical for many people who have ties there.
    Some of us are accustomed to living on the far side of the date line, but most probably not.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    These are all solid points, Freedomforall, and they remind me of an assignment I give called a questions and issues sheet. Look for that later today. We'll eventually convert that into a wiki.
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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Dear Freedomforall,
    Where are you from, freedomforall?
    I live only ten miles from Cocoa. Personal message me about that.

    Hurricane shutters at a minimum would be necessary, as would the plastic film that resists winds up to 180 mph. A dome is not a bad idea. Once you have protected windows sufficiently, the most serious consideration is your roof.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 9 months ago
    jbrenner, you mentioned elsewhere that hurricane proofing is easier than might be thought. I'd be interested in more info on that. I think I mentioned my previous interest in dome construction and that could be one possibility, at least in terms of wind resistance. (In Cocoa FL is aidomes.com.)
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  • Posted by freedomforall 10 years, 9 months ago
    Possibly obvious thoughts.
    Apologies for seeming negative on this topic, I am not negative, but I guess it's my nature to look for 'complications.'
    SECURITY
    (1)If choosing an island that is remote, security should be the highest initial priority. Control of access will be crucial until a sizable armed resident population is present all the time. Piracy is a fact of existance in remote areas.
    (2)If located in the US the gulch will be subject to the full power of the corrupt federal government and to all the unconstitutional legal looting that impiles. The US fedgov has an incentive to destroy any gulch anywhere in the world, but placing it in the US is begging for "imperial entanglements."
    (3) Other large countries have the same interests as the US, and unfortunately small countries often can't withstand meddling by the US, UK, etc. (Remember Grenada and the Falklands.) The Bahamas caved rather quickly to fedgov and IRS meddling in their offshore banking 'industry.'
    (4) Transportation of goods will be a big economic negative if choosing a site that does not already have regular service. Finding and providing shelter for a labor force will also be a large economic drawback. Perhaps better to select a larger island/area with a relatively small existing population in need of more jobs, and having regular freight/mail service. Access to medical care facility will also be an issue until a settlement is built on site, and existing rapid transportation to such a facility is more likely in an area that is already inhabited.

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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 10 years, 9 months ago
    In terms of accessibility, what do you want? How necessary is it to be able to land a plane on the island? If we are near the mainland, then we have more interference from that country, but we have the opportunity for boat and helicopter access.
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  • Posted by khalling 10 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well in fairness, when I picked 12 I was really picking Nicaragua. Although I see the advantage of a property with condos and homes or small resort and homes the regulations of running the resort leave one vulnerable when you 're outside the country. In the beginning what might be better are several homes each with a guest house or lock off or studio. You can easily rent those without involving the govt (in many cases) .
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