But they didn't waste their energy on "insane" things like voting.

(Insane as defined by Einstein - repeating the same action and expecting a different result.)

Perfectly stated!

"Most idols have feet of clay." I don't know who to ascribe that to but truer words were never spoken. Ronald Reagan was an outstanding president but he wasn't perfect. He actually was wrong on certain issues and made mistakes. If we were to minutely examine the lives of most of our heroes, I'm sure we would find flaws in all of them. But...we do not admire them for their flaws, but for their accomplishments. (Paraphrasing) "The standard by which one judges what is good and evil is a man's life" -- A.R. A debater in public life must be careful to not use one persons life as the primary example of the debater's points. By doing so, he diverts from the argument to the words of the person being quoted.

And it's Bedtime for Bonzo...

Affirmative! We NEED another Reagan, but we're stuck with Bonzo.

Speaking of the Great one...the one quote I remember frequently and fondly, especially in these times. Kind of like a call to action by the last real president.

"Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same, or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children and our children's children what it was once like in the United States where men were free."

I don't know if it's the land or the mentality of the Muslims who literally "live to die" while those of us in western civilization "live to live".

And the former Soviet soldiers I have spoken to (reminds me of our VN vets from the generation before) are just flat in shock that the US would ignore what happened to their country and go in and do exactly what every empire has done since Alexander.

Seriously - they look at me and ask if we're that stupid, that blind, and that ignorant to a history we saw happen right in front of us. While that hurts, I can't argue with these guys. And that is f'n sad.

Makes me wonder - if somehow history got it wrong, that the "promised land" of G*d isn't in the eastern Mediterranean but in those rocky, crappy mountains. Maybe that's where the Garden of Eden was really hidden... As every country casting aspersions on (and attempting to invade/control) it have failed (and miserably)... it's like G*d is watching over this patch of dirt as his own. And repelling all the Caesars throughout time that have come wanting.

It comes back to Sun Tzu. His strategies for making war are legendary, but one of the most original "arts of war" (pun intended) originally credited with him was the idea of psychological warfare and the concept of morale. He wrote about this in simple detail, warning generals never to underestimate a motivated soldier.

The reason the Middle East is such a quagmire is because all parties are so emotionally invested (and motivated) in the outcome. Each claims a divine mandate favoring them exclusively. It is complete chutzpah (a Hebrew word if I am not mistaken) to believe that man is going to end a conflict that has been going on for near 4000 years in some form or other. I think the Princess Bride has the right quote here:

"For the last time: Surrender!"

"Death first!"

Short of literal divine intervention or the annihilation of one (or both) of the parties, this conflict is never going to end. Only the arrogant and narcissistic believe in a "diplomatic" solution because they choose to ignore that the two sides are utterly irreconcilable.

Hear Hear!

Y'know, about this whole "Shrugging" thing...

Remember that Ragnar, Francisco and even John himself, though having "shrugged", were hardly inactive. They did not just throw up their hands and walk away.

At very least - vote for the lesser evil. How many more lessons do we need on this???

Historically the Middle East is referred to as "The Graveyard of Empires".
I often wonder why our presidents have so little knowledge of history.

Resurrect Thomas Jefferson's foreign (and domestic) policy.

For better or for worse, foreign policy rests largely with the Executive branch. The best thing conservatives (and pragmatists) can do is get off their sofas and vote. Too many decided Romney wasn't to their liking last time and look what happened--four more years of chaos and corruption. We will never have a perfect candidate. Get over it and vote for the best choice available. Or one can shrug. But until a real-life John Galt appears on the scene, this would be a poor choice.

Reagan let the Soviets waste their resources on Afghanistan. Our last two presidents repeated the Soviet mistake.

But still 1000 times better than what we have right now!

We will not negotiate with terrorists. duh. That's a start.