Just Because You Win The Election.....

Posted by Herb7734 7 months ago to Politics
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Pre Obama it was said, correctly, that conservatives may win elections but liberalism through its control and domination of collegesand media, law and journalism schools,plus of course Hollywood and throw in Silicon Valley, not mention social media.They have molded the culture into a form wherein conservatism is racism and bigotry, sexism and homophobia, etc.No wonder a Republican Senate gives Trump nothing except to confirm a few conservative judges, even though there are over 100 still to be confirmed. The McConnell Senate stalls even at that easy task. So...Did Trump really win the election?


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 months ago
    Does this mean the Senate won't work with President Trump because he is more conservative than the Senate?
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    • Posted by 7 months ago
      It took an outsider to illustrate how close the Republicans are to the Democrats. They are virtually the same.McCain is a good example. For 7 years he opposed Obamacare, but when it came down to actuality, a personality clash made it easy to change his attitude. So it will be for the rest of Trump's term unless the scumminess becomes so apparent that it arouses the voters to force reality upon the senate.
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      • Posted by rhfinle 7 months ago
        I've been calling them Demoblicans and Republicrats for years. One thing I can't stand is the wishy-washy professional politicians that don't know what they stand for - and those who swap sides for votes are a perfect example. I will never vote for one of them. I know liberal Democrats who I have more respect for. These guys at least work out their positions logically and have rational beliefs, even if they have not yet been convinced their premises are wrong.
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        • Posted by  $  Maritimus 7 months ago
          Hello, rhfinle,
          Pushing a collectivist utopia, which the history has shown to be straight road to a disaster, cannot qualify for a rational belief. Even a superficial survey of history will demonstrate beyond doubt that French revolution leaders, Lenin, Stalin, as well as Mussolini and Hitler (shall I add Mao and Pol Pot?) all explicitly claimed, innumerable times, that their success depended vitally on suppressing the individual to promote the collective. Why do you think millions of people, over more than two centuries, kept dropping everything to go to America? It is only with the recent precipitous decline in the quality of education than demagogues like Bernie Sanders and Elisabeth Warren can get traction, mostly among the young, many of whom come out of schools brain washed.
          Best wishes.
          Maritimus
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          • Posted by rhfinle 7 months ago
            Maritimus, I couldn't agree more. If I could accomplish one thing in this country it would be to eliminate the government "public" school system and privatize the lot. That would give parents checkbook control of the curriculums and political agendas being pushed on our kids. I was only referring to a couple of guys I know who are Democrats but good people at heart, who continue to struggle with that belief system which is ultimately irrational. Sadly, one of them is big in the public school system and considers it to be the best option, even though his own children are poster children for the failure of the system. I would still give them more credibility, at least in local elections, than the wishy-washy ones who have no clear idea of what they are implementing or where they're going. At least these guys have the capability, maybe, to reason it out and see where they are misled.
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      • Posted by  $  Dobrien 7 months ago
        I agree Herb7734, The Redumocrates namely McCaint (who ain't what he claims to be ) gave Obama the WhiteHouse, McConman and Lyinryan. .
        I was surprised when Pres. Trump won against the
        Democratic Elite Kakistacratic Evil hag. It has given me some hope that a fair number of folks are awakening, Trump has been accused of collaborating with the Russian with no evidence, and with no consequences for the inflammatory
        Disgraceful deciet .
        The media , education, entertainment , congress they all side together in this
        UNCIVIL WAR.
        I am thankful that we finally have a leader who has said "We The People " and " I am going to take the power from Washington and give it back to the people" can he do it? So far he has rope-a-doped
        with conviction . I can not think of any politician with his thick skin to fight the good fight. Go Trump Go . Don't think Trump won't go down without exposing the sham. These people are scared to death of his no nonsense approach .
        He is result oriented, they are snobby thieves.
        I hope I am surprised again and these RINO's are fired.
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        • Posted by 7 months ago
          I hope I'm wrong, but I think they have rendered him impotent, already.With the exception of a few judges they have allowed him zip. This is the new USA. The United Statements of Anything.
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    • Posted by  $  blarman 7 months ago
      Yes, which is scary since Trump really isn't all that conservative in the first place. He's a centrist.

      I think Trump's election has exposed a few things about the Republican Party to the general populace:
      1. They are not unified in their platform and ideas, in contrast with the Democratic Party.
      2. There are several key Republicans who are decidedly not conservative and in fact should probably be labeled as Democrats.
      3. The Republican Party has no interest in policing its own members to the point of electing conservatives (see senators from Arizona, Maine, Alaska).
      4. The Republican leaders were more than happy to remain in the minority because they could complain without having to actually act (see McConnell, Ryan). They are ill-equipped to actually lead and get things done.

      Which leads me to believe that in the next two elections we're likely to see a large shift toward the Democrats as Republicans stay home disgusted with the party which for the last eight years could say nothing but "give us control and we'll get it done."
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      • Posted by mccannon01 7 months ago
        Pretty much with you here, blarman, except:

        On point #2 I think the Democrats have become socialist/communist in spite of still calling themselves "Democrats" and the Republicans have become Democrats, that is socialists lite. They are left and right wings of the same left flying abomination party. Trump is a wake up call from the electorate that's getting sick of the whole thing.

        Also, I don't expect too many "Republican" voters to stay home in spite of their disgust. They will hold their noses and vote Republican just so the Democrats (socialist/communists) can't get a free ride to rule.
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        • Posted by 7 months ago
          If the ship of state were in trouble, it would be because it is listing to the left.The socialists have become communists, the centrists have become socialists, across the aisle, the nationalists have become centrists and the capitalists have disappeared altogether.
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      • Posted by CaptainKirk 7 months ago
        I will disagree with your very last point.
        The republicans will show up, IN FORCE, to remove EVERY establishment GOP candidate and replace with a fresh face to send their message.

        WE are willing to lose seats in the process (and the RNC will WANT us to lose seats, so they can say "told ya so"). But the TeaParty and other conservative groups are not going to stay home. We will fight.

        We will never get perfectly conservative people, but we will send a message in 2018 that makes the GOP wake up, or step down. It is no longer about this country, it is about these people lining their own pockets. Setting up their own deals.
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        • Posted by  $  blarman 7 months ago
          I don't consider the current Republican leadership of the "conservative" mode - especially not McConnell.

          I think we are actually in agreement on the last point. I would love to see many of these establishment types get primaried and lose. The choice of Moore in Alabama is what I want to see more of. I think what I was getting at is that those establishment Republicans who do win their Primaries are going to find the Generals much harder because of base apathy.
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          • Posted by CaptainKirk 7 months ago
            Honestly, the people I talk to (and I talk a lot, LOL), are more engaged because of this BS. I know MANY people who will vote in primaries for the first time, and mid-terms for the first time in their lives...
            Simply out of disgust for how bad things have gotten, and the realization that we are headed to being Venezuela if the left wins!

            BTW, It is the job of every patriotic American to get people out to change the system for the better. Because giving up now, simply assures either Civil War, or Martial Law down the road.
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        • Posted by 7 months ago
          OK Cap'n. Your scenario is more positive than mine. As I have repeated many times , it is all about just two things, money and power. I suspect that rather than Atlas shrugging, he will go underground.
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          • Posted by CaptainKirk 7 months ago
            My Russian Friends say "Hope Dies Last".
            It is a VERY dark refrain...

            They also say "Politics is about one billionaire trying to make another billionaire pick up the tab (using the lives of the peasants to do it)".

            Greed is not bad. People having a profit motive is not bad.

            But politicians have a twisted relationship. It is more profitable for them to do a DISSERVICE to the country, than to do the country right.
            THAT is the problem we must find a way to solve.

            Otherwise, I have to go to Mark Twain: "Everyone in Office should serve 2 terms. One if office, followed by one in prison".
            Methinks Mr. Twain was a VERY SMART MAN!
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 months ago
        "Republican Party has no interest in policing its own members to the point of electing conservatives"
        They elected a president who proposed a budget that would nearly triple the deficit. He's vocally supported asset forfeiture. He promised to protect domestic workers from foreign competition. He promised an amazingly great alternative to PPACA. Instead of getting things done, he seems mainly interested in drawing attention to himself.
        So if conservative = small gov't, there is no mainstream conservative representation.

        "are not unified in their platform and ideas, in contrast with the Democratic Party"
        Democrats are not as unified as you think. The only thing we agree on is that President Trump is very offensive.
        https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...
        I am closest to the "Coastal Elite Bloc", although I'm neither Coastal or elite. I live in an area dominated by the "Traditional Liberal Bloc". I know this sounds far-fetched, but I think the Traditional Liberals, the vast majority in my area, are closer to President Trump, and the anti-tax / anti-spending segment of Republicans are closer to the Democratic Coastal Elite.
        https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...

        Logically, I'd like them to separate so I'm not shoe-horned into the same party as Bernie Sanders, BUT if they did separate maybe after the re-alignment the big-gov't coalition would win decisive and I'd regret the change.
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        • Posted by  $  blarman 7 months ago
          "They elected a president who proposed a budget that would nearly triple the deficit."

          That's not a big departure from our previous President, who actually DID (nearly) triple the deficit. Yes, it's absurd, but it is Congress who should ultimately shoulder the blame as they ultimately are responsible for passing the budget.

          "He's vocally supported asset forfeiture. He promised to protect domestic workers from foreign competition. He promised an amazingly great alternative to PPACA. Instead of getting things done, he seems mainly interested in drawing attention to himself. "

          Which is why I don't label Trump either a conservative or a libertarian. To be honest, his pick of Gorsuch really surprised me. He's at best a centrist and more a social nationalist than anything.

          There is a major faction within the Republican Party which is conservative in nature called the House Freedom Caucus (I think led by Jim Jordan). They have a similar group in the Senate led by Mike Lee, Rand Paul, and Ted Cruz. But they are opposed by what I will call the "establishment" Republicans such as Paul Ryan, Mitch McConnell, John McCain, and others.

          "Democrats are not as unified as you think."

          Perhaps not, but they are not as ideologically differentiated as the Republicans - especially now that they have expunged those who used to be called Blue Dog Democrats (arguably libertarians really). The only Democrats remaining are the "hard left" and "fanatical left" where there used to be some centrists. The Republicans are all over the board from conservatives to RINO's (who are for all intents and purposes Democrats). The latest fights on healthcare, immigration, and tax reform (pending) all demonstrate 1) the solidarity of the Democrats and 2) the fractiousness of the Republicans.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 months ago
            "which is conservative in nature called the House Freedom Caucus"
            I'd be in that group. I loved watching Ron Paul in the debates. I felt like he should be a Democrat and bring to life the Democratic Freedom Caucus, which I think is nearly defunct.

            "the solidarity of the Democrats"
            I could be wrong, but I think that's only due to how they respond to President Trump's antics. Some Democrats think Sanders got us President Trump. They can stay united by disgust with Trump's antics.
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            • Posted by  $  blarman 7 months ago
              I'm curious why you think Ron Paul should be a Democrat. Democrats have always been the party of huge social spending which both Ron and Rand have always opposed.

              "and bring to life the Democratic Freedom Caucus..."

              You have a strange view of the Democratic Party. But then, my wife's grandma was a lifelong Democrat because she lived through Roosevelt and WW II and just never could match up the reality with her romantic (and by that I mean imaginary) views of the man. Jefferson and Madison would be astounded and ashamed at the antics of the Democratic Party because it diverged from everything they stood for quite early on. Remember, it was the Democratic Party who agitated to continue slavery even in the early 1800's. (Lincoln was only voted in because the other three tickets all split the vote!) Following the Civil War, Democrats were the ones who brought in "separate but equal". Andrew Jackson - though a war hero - was responsible for the "Trail of Tears" - persecuting American Indians and the segregation of blacks and whites in the White House. All semblance of attendance to the Constitution was thrown out by Woodrow Wilson, who was the first major proponent of "one-world government" via the League of Nations. Wilson was also a huge proponent and original provocateur of the imperial presidency, arguing contrary to the Constitution that it was the role of a strong president to make "executive decisions" which were in all reality laws and to carry them out. The Democrats were overwhelmingly against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Fast forward a few more years to LBJ, who bragged that through social welfare programs he would both enslave the blacks AND make them willing victims/voters. I don't even need to get into Carter, Clinton, or Obama.

              That is the real history (in a paragraph) of the Democratic Party. Democrats do not have freedom on their minds, and I can argue that every one of their policies is decidedly anti-freedom. That anyone - especially someone with functioning rational faculties - could associate themselves with such an organization staggers me.

              Regarding Trump, he is a populist/nationalist response to the current political status of establishment politics. He's an outsider, which offends the Democrats (who consider themselves an elite class) as well as many of the Republicans. Yes, he's got more than a few rough edges and these irritate those who are used to the greased-palm machine of the Establishment. He's a bull in the china shop, and many on both sides of the aisle are lamenting the broken dishes. I look at the dishes and go "you're complaining about THAT?!?!"

              Sanders is mental - as in mentally gone. He's down the rabbit hole. Socialism can only be contemplated by the demented or the self-appointed elite who think they would be in control. And that's what he wants - power. Clinton was even worse and more brazen in her pay-for-play. She (like Obama) are Wilsonites who see themselves as the self-appointed emperors that the voting public is too beneath them to recognize for their brilliance. In fact, she's so morally depraved she makes pond scum downright appealing.

              Seriously. How can you even think of voting for people like this while calling yourself a lover of freedom?
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 months ago
                "I'm curious why you think Ron Paul should be a Democrat."
                You're right. I take it back. He should have been in some other small-gov't party like libertarian, and they should be a major party.
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                • Posted by  $  blarman 7 months ago
                  I think the US would benefit greatly by having more/targeted political parties rather than the two big ones. I'd love to see the Constitution Party gain steam. I think there are plenty of Libertarians to support that party. The Green Party does pretty well even though they're IMO a bunch of nutcases. Heck, Sanders would be the leader of the Communist Party of America.

                  Party politics is holding this back, however. There are two major things that would have to happen (in my mind) to broaden the sphere of political parties participating in our process:

                  1) Repeal the 12th Amendment. Eliminate party-line voting that puts both President and Vice-President on the same ticket. Go back to the President being the top vote-getter and the Vice-President being the second-highest vote-getter. This would also restore the office of the Vice President to one that actually mattered. It would also make it so that impeachment proceedings would become a serious matter because in the event of Conviction, power would change hands - and parties.

                  2) Campaign finance revision. Make it so that candidates for political office can't accept money from anyone not a registered voter in the precinct for which they are running. That means no one but someone in that voting district can give money to a candidate. No foreigners, no George Soros, and no outside special interests - including PAC's and unions and National Committees. Just plain grass-roots financing. This one provision would have the ancillary effect of gutting most lobbying efforts.
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                • Posted by 7 months ago
                  He Is a libertarian, but in order to get elected he runs as a Republican. I could have been very comfortable with him as president. He is an outsider in the sense he doesn't align with the establishment but he's as sharp as they come.
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              • Posted by 7 months ago
                Actually, even though he is impeding what I consider to be our forward progress, I must admire Rand Paul.He is a man of great integrity who remains consistent with his beliefs and is willing to pay the consequences for his actions. I may not always agree with him but I'd never doubt his sincerity.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 months ago
            "That's not a big departure from our previous President, who actually DID (nearly) triple the deficit."
            It hit near the trillion dollar range when President Obama took office. There had been a major financial crisis and a recession. President Bush proposed borrowing as an answer, and President Obama increased it. When President Trump took office, after the stock market had doubled, he proposed returning to trillion dollar deficits. I consider that worse because when the pendulum swings the other way, that would turn into a 2 trillion dollar deficit. At some point we will have a major monetary/fiscal crisis.
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            • Posted by  $  blarman 7 months ago
              Again, deficits are the responsibility of Congress - not the President. The most egregious overruns in our deficit came when the Democrats owned majorities in the House and Senate. That includes the last four years of Bush II and the first four years of Obama. In fact, the Democrats never actually passed a budget (as Constitutionally mandated) during Obama's first four years in office (CR's don't count). Average budget deficits ran $1.3 TRILLION. They only started to come back down once Republicans took over the majority in 2012 (though again here, Republican efforts were only marginal in either effect or intent).

              And if you want to see a budget at least as ridiculous as President Trump's, look at some of Obama's initial budgets. They were so bad not even the Democrats would support them. Obama's first two budgets failed in a staggering manner, garnering a TOTAL of ONE vote between them (including both House and Senate)!

              We already have a major monetary crisis. Our debt outstrips our entire economy and at staggeringly low interest rates. If those interest rates go up - which they must - debt service becomes the elephant in the room to rival either military or social spending.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 months ago
                "The most egregious overruns in our deficit came when the Democrats owned majorities in the House and Senate. "
                And the last time we had a balanced budget Republicans controlled Congress and we had a Democrat president. They argued mightily. Between their actions and the expansion following the recession of '91, they balanced the budget.
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                • Posted by  $  blarman 7 months ago
                  Precisely my point: Congress controls the budget - not the President.

                  I would also point out that in Gingrich's "Contract with America" were also several tax cuts and reformations to social spending programs. Those were significant factors which are often overlooked amongst those deliberations.
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        • Posted by 7 months ago
          Your scenario seems to be a lose-lose situation.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 months ago
            "Your scenario seems to be a lose-lose situation."
            The winning scenario is if they separate into a big-gov't party and small-gov't party and the country would decisively reject the big gov't one. The big-gov't party would be a minority that only dominated on the few rare times and issues where people felt the need for big gov't.
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            • Posted by 7 months ago
              You are viewing things from Olympia as a rational God. The sign at the entrance to Hell should be at the city limits to all the entrances to Washington: "Abandon All Hope Ye Who Enter Here."
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  • Posted by term2 7 months ago
    All Trump can do is exercise a veto to keep out socialist programs, and the congress can still over ride it. Half the people want socialism, and the other half are against it more or less. The country needs to split up into two parts I think.
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    • Posted by  $  blarman 7 months ago
      What is interesting is that while there are a large number of people who want socialism, they are primarily confined to the cities where they (unconsciously) rely on the production of those who want freedom. The rural areas are by far more conservative. What would be interesting to see is one city where the food trucks stopped rolling in because of boycotts by the producers, a la Atlas Shrugged.
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  • Posted by lonerinfl 7 months ago
    In politics, there really is only one party, the "MY POCKETS". Be it a D or R at the end of that name they are all about "what is in it for me". During elections, they pander to the people that put the most money into their campaigns and when elected they will vote on what will make themselves the most money.
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    • Posted by 7 months ago
      True about money but you left out what is probably as good a motivation as money. Power! Money and power are the true motives of most politicians, even if they won't admit it. Even to themselves.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 7 months ago
    A Conscious man, [human] is an amazing enigma in nature; but still lacks the skill, the psychology, the emotion, to deal with those that have yet to become consciously introspective, the bicameral brain or the stupid.

    We need a new study, an honest and in-depth one that will teach us to successfully talk to stupid...
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    • Posted by 7 months ago
      What if autism is a manifestation of stupid's attempt to take over. In the case of savants, the brain is elevated to abilities Far beyond the norm. Can you imagine that same process (whatever it is) taking over the whole brain?
      Did you see the movie "LUCY"?A fairy tale illustrating what happens as the brain is being utilized up to 100%.
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      • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 7 months ago
        Well, an autistic might have connections we don't without all the other distractions but has difficulty expressing them.
        Now stupid, on the other hand, does not lack the ability to express his stupidity.

        Too bad that wasn't the other way around.

        The brain in most, Is 100% utilized, just not all at the same time...maybe those times when much of it is engaged at the same time is a new understanding of multitasking...which gets us nowhere fast instead of everywhere in a slow methodical way, integrating each step and stringing dots like jeweled beads to be worn around the neck.

        It would seem that the advantage be given to those unconsciously competent to the point where one leaves the automatic bicameral brain to it's important tasks while one engages the mind and the quantum to broaden and widen ones scope into infinity. [Wide Scope Accountability]

        The brain, aside from providing function and support for the whole is also necessary to properly decode the messages, information and knowledge asked for by the mind bringing thought into the spoken world and pen to paper.

        The Fight for Conscious Human LifeĀ© The Journey begins within...
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 7 months ago
    I live in Arizona, if I could I would take McCain & Flake out to the woodshed. These long term RINO's are a menace and they do more harm than good. They don't represent their constituents, when writing them their lackeys send out canned responses.
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