What happens to democracy....

Posted by JohnTurnbull 6 years, 7 months ago to Politics
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What happens to democracy when the majority say they don't want democracy and that they would rather have Ayatollah Fuzz Face as supreme leader?


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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 6 years, 7 months ago
    What happens to democracy is MOB RULE.

    “When the people find that they can vote themselves money that will herald the end of the republic.”

    ― Benjamin Franklin
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 years, 7 months ago
    That's the problem with any implementation of "The Gulch" -- if the majority of the people living there want a socialist or religious government, they will ignore any constitution or legal documents and set up the government they want.

    It's not enough to have the rules limit the power of the majority, you also have to continue to win the hearts and minds of the majority or you will get a "new deal".
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 7 months ago
      In some of Jefferson's writings, he talks about towns or even neighborhoods having very distinct rules. He was imagining, it seemed to me, how far we could take local autonomy if we had a strictly limited central gov't. I wish we could try to be more like that. So religious or socialist communities could have their rules with the understanding they would not impose on anyone else, and everyone else would agree not to impose on them. I know socialism is all about imposing, but if it's really voluntary (not true socialism) then I think it's wrong for me to tell them how to live.
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      • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 years, 7 months ago
        The problem is that you can't have a strictly limited central government if the majority of the people want otherwise. They will simply ignore the limits.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 6 years, 7 months ago
          The "majority" of those with political power can control government regardless of the wishes of the mathematical "majority."
          Any Gulch should have very strict laws on suffrage. Universal suffrage and democracy is a terminal mistake for a government of free productive people.
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          • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 years, 7 months ago
            That's certainly true, but then the issue becomes the ongoing attitudes of the ones with suffrage. If they can be persuaded to change the rules then away they go.

            And. of course if suffrage is too closely controlled there remains the possibility of forcible rebellion by the people excluded from suffrage.

            The basic problem is that if the philosophical rules underlying the creation of a society are no longer accepted by the members of the society, they will change no matter how you have set up the rules on paper.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 6 years, 7 months ago
    People who have benefited from democracy quickly lose appreciation for it. The result isn't an outright sudden turn, but a slow eroding of individual rights as government becomes the prime provider and decision maker.

    The seductive idea of a merciful, kind, ingenious leader who eases the pain of our lives and relieves us of making difficult decisions infects a society that has become too comfortable. The fragile "snowflakes" we see as SJWs have never felt real travail, and imagined or exaggerated difficulties become the "oppression" they seek relief from as they stumble blindly into an authoritarian abyss.
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    • Posted by $ Abaco 6 years, 7 months ago
      I had this same discussion with my golf partner on the fairway yesterday. We, as a society, are now living in a paradigm where the government is god. We anticipate that our lives will be sufficiently run by this god. So, when the god gets wrapped up in pro athlete protests we get upset. I get upset that people give a sh*t... Government should be patching potholes and securing borders. They can't do that and yet everybody is clamoring for them to provide health care...good lord...
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 7 months ago
    Democracies suck...they often collapse when too democratic...meaning anything goes. Anything goes for those least able to augment civil society.
    I don't think it probable the Everyone will or ever live by time tested principles, therefore we continually see the mob of "Be what ever you will" rise up and ruin everything.

    We should of been more vigilant in protecting our constitutional republic but as of now, that's just 20/20 hindsight.
    Where is that "Reset button"?
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 7 months ago
      I agree with that. That's the nature of democracy and why we don't want a true/pure democracy. If the majority want a theocracy they can vote for one and act oppressed when people don't want to accept the majority view.
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  • Posted by chad 6 years, 7 months ago
    It isn't that just the majority wants the socialist-communist democracy that is now America and it isn't that in reality almost 100% want it but only to choose the exact form it might be represented in but that they have enforcers who will apply it to any who might resist and there are far too many who will turn you in for the least infraction for anyone who tries to live unobserved.
    At the Bundy's cattle protest in Nevada there were only a handful of people who showed up to protest and support the Bundy's in their protest. Some were armed but never pointed any weapons at anyone. They had a barbeque and even cleaned up after themselves. They were told that a 'free speech zone' had been set up for them far from where any press or others might see them and they violated the law for not going there to protest. The BLM feds brought their sniper team (when I was young they were never armed) and were able to discover the name of every individual there and whether they had transported arms and what kind across state lines to get to the protest. The Bundy's remain in prison in solitary confinement with no bail set for two years and have yet to be convicted of a crime after two hung juries a judge who works only on precedent and not on what the constitution states is working to get a third trial underway. The Bundy's are occasionally moved without notifying their families making visitation difficult if not impossible.
    Yet the Ferguson riots where property was looted, destroyed, people harmed and killed and there has not been one single arrest. Whom a government prosecutes (persecutes) and for what crime tells you the morality of the government. If people simply said no the government would have no effect. However when the populace is for immorality there is very little effect that can be made by those who prefer the morality of freedom and liberty.
    It has been a long slow descent into the mire and I think it will continue. Trying to stop it now will be like trying to stop an avalanche with a child's toy pail and shovel.
    Part of the problem is that those who do desire liberty continue to ask those who hold the chains if they could be set free. Asking the slave master for freedom is a fruitless endeavor and standing in front of the onslaught might be honorable in that the individual will not submit his choices to those of others but losing one's life against such odds fails to convince the mob of its immorality.
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  • Posted by Storo 6 years, 7 months ago
    What we are seeing in America today is NOT the majority deciding that they do not want democracy, but instead is a small, vocal, violent minority trying to start a revolt that leads to revolution, that ends with an overthrow of the established order, to be replaced with what we do not know.
    Unfortunately the true majority sits on their butts and in their complacency and allows the minority to control the conversation. In addition, there are many people in this country who are uneducated and/or ignorant about our system of government, and when offered promises of being put "on top" in the new society and having their problems all solved by government, are ready and willing to support groups that want to overthrow the Constitution.
    There are forces at work here too that have the agenda of the destruction of the Nation State. Not just in the US, but everywhere. These are the Globalists, the very wealthy, who sponsor, support and fund radical leftist groups for the sole purpose of creating instability, riots in the streets, chaos, and eventually the fall of democratic systems.
    People have lost faith in our government on all sides. Even Newt Gingrich said on a recent Hannity that he has lost faith in Congress and the Courts and other institutions because their actions make no sense and are essentially un-American.
    It has taken us the 70 plus years since the end of WWII to get where we are today. The radicals of the 60s slowly disappeared, or so we thought. What they really did was to infiltrate our schools, our universities, out local governments, our courts, and other organizations and institutions. The communists came right along with them, and all followed Saul Alynski's Rules for Radicals. Howard Zinn, a known communist, became an honored professor at Boston University, Bill Ayres who bombed Federal and police buildings in the 1960s became a renowned theorist in Elementary Education at the University of Illinois at Chicago, and a friend and supporter of Barack Obama. Jerry Rubin of Chicago 7 infamy became an investment banker.
    We have allowed people like this to insinuate themselves into our education systems, spread their false narratives, and brainwash our children to the point where it is hard to recognize college campuses as places of higher learning. Look at Berkeley, where the student masses shut down the free speech of Conservatives in the name of "free speech".
    Our high schools were also infiltrated, and the Ivory Tower educational theorists changed and changed and changed curricular requirements in the name of making it easier for students (particularly minority and the "disadvantaged") easier to learn. What they actually did is remove all instruction in Civics and taught their twisted versions of History, portraying America and the Founding Fathers as the source of all of the evils in the world. We are seeing the results of their "work" on the streets of Charlottesville, Berkeley, Ferguson and other American cities today.
    Donald Trump has been criticized for his campaign being "populist". Nothing could be further from the truth. The appeal of the Leftists, anarchists, the Antifa, Black Lives Matter and all the rest is the real populist movement that appeals to the worst instincts of our ignorant and uneducated populations, spurred on by radical left wing spoiled college students who feel that they missed something by not being alive in the 1960s.
    The solution to all of this is a generational solution. The Radical Left has held sway in indoctrinating our children with their rubbish for over 3 generations now, and they now seem to be reaping their rewards.
    Those of us who want to continue our government under the Constitution, limit government's reach, be financially responsible, have the freedoms of the Bill of Rights must take action! We must take back our schools. We must take back the Courts and appoint judges who abide by the Constitution, elect people who will act on behalf of ALL the people and the best interest of the Country AND ITS CITIZENS, not non-citizens, and not the scattered minorities and the ruling elite, balance the Budget and stop spending what we don't have, and perhaps most importantly, DEMAND that our citizens be responsible for their own welfare and their own lives and not insist that our government provide for them.
    Can this be done? The short answer is "Yes", but there must be the Will to do it. Given the complacency of our majority population, I'm not sure that the erosion of our Will and our Rights has not already gone too far.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 7 months ago
    This happened in Germany in the 1920's when they elected Adolph Hitler. It has also happened at other times in history, like Italy's election of Benito Mussolini, Venezuela's election of Hugo Chavez, China's election of Mao Zedong, and many, many others.

    And what happens, is tyranny that takes years or millions of lives to undo.
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    • Posted by Storo 6 years, 7 months ago
      I need to point out that Hitler was not elected, and neither were Mussolini nor Mao.
      Hitler was appointed Chancelor by German President Von Hindenburg, Mussolini was appointed by the then King of Italy, and Mao led a communist army in a Civil War against the Kuomintang, the Chinese republic established in 1911.
      Chavez was elected, but many believe the election was rigged.
      All of these established dictatorships with the end result that none were any longer idealogically pure, once in power.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 6 years, 7 months ago
    "There is no difference between communism and socialism, except in the means of achieving the same ultimate end: communism proposes to enslave men by force, socialism—by vote. It is merely the difference between murder and suicide." AR Notwithstanding Trump, the "voters" are winning.
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