Appreciate that allosaur, but thank you for your service too. It does not matter, our military experience, it's only our outlook and dedication to what our country stands for and believes. "ewv", may be right that there really was "no duty to serve", but I know of no one that is still not proud of his/her service (I"m sure there are some, but I don't know of any). I also disagree with his "should never have gotten into", but that perhaps is just another part of that brainwashing we all get. Was I brainwashed into thinking our intentions were honorable or was he brainwashed into thinking we shouldn't go, or perhaps shouldn't have gone. Did he or I change our minds, or are we steadfast on what we believed or thought? My beliefs have never changed and were absolutely positively confirmed in my mind in about 2009 when that little Vietnamese woman took my hand in hers, looked up at me into my eyes, and said, "Thank you for helping us". Today it's what is presented as history that makes it all for nothing. Our youth will have to do it all over again and again because we can't really learn from fake history, and those that know the truth aren't around long enough to set us straight.

You should not have been forced to be there at all. The state of your 'discharge' should have been recognized as a permanent right all along.

There was no duty to serve; it was sacrifice imposed by force for a military adventure this country should never have gotten into.

Thank you. Have to add that the day of my discharge was one of the happiest of my life.
Dang I was feeling really good!
"I'm free! I'm free!"

You still served our country, and I thank you for your service.

One recruit on Parris Island told me that a judge told him to join the Marines or do jail time.
Before graduation he was assigned MOS 0311 for rifleman.
Another recruit who talked all the time about killing people (and even slugged another private) did not like the MOS he was a signed. "A cook?!" he cried.
Me dino had to bite my lip to keep from laughing.
Three were promised "aviation guaranteed" by a recruiter. It was a lie. I did not feel like laughing at them.
Since I ended up a supply clerk for a satellite communications squadron at a Marine air base, I got closer to "aviation" than those guys did.

Nope. Congress will continue to nominate itself for the Noballs Piece Prize and won't take any action regarding conflict that they have to sign.

Math and English. If you get nothing else, walk out of school with as much of those as you can. Then, never stop reading.

And that is what they told the ones chosen for the Navy, too. The guys selected for the AF were chosen due to poor muscle tone. The guys selected for the Army were just slightly above room temp. ;-)

Good, your mixed feelings about your own experience are understood.

I agree.

Whatever your mixed feelings about your own experiences, the purpose of the military is not to provide a college education or 'life experiences', and there is no excuse for involuntary servitude conscripting unwilling victims into the military. You can reminisce about what choices you may or may not have made on your own, but everyone is responsible for his own choices and even the worst scenario of making bad choices does not justify conscription.

The draft, on the face of it, is involuntary servitude
and, as such, is a violation of the rights of man.
I keep hearing that we are "still" "technically" at
war with North Korea. We were never technically
at war with them in the first place.Because that was not a declared war. It was called a "police
action". Of course, people were still killing and
being killed, I just mean it is silly to say that we
are "technically" at war with North Korea. If
Kim Jong Un keeps behaving the way he has
been doing, we may have the declared one soon.

Thank you for your service.
You had it way harder than I did.

Great story, I smiled all the way through. I was drafted and inducted Oct '66, Vietnam Oct 68 - 69. We were winning when I left, that's why you didn't have to go. Then later congress gave it all away including our honor. Thank you for your service. We shot a lot for the Marines, especially up on the DMZ, and for the 101st Airborne in the A Shau Valley. I have the deepest respect for any and all that accepted their duty to serve.

I have really mixed feelings about the draft. Without it I never would have enlisted. In 1963 when I applied for a ‘good’ job (i.e. anything other then working at McDonald's) the first question I would be asked was about my draft status. I found out they only talked to and hired people who were honorably discharged or classified 4F, I think because the law required a company to rehire someone who was drafted when he finished his enlistment.

Having enlisted I experienced a lot of things about life I probably would never have otherwise. (Not all good by the way.) Because of the unpopularity of the Vietnam War, the Air Force was having a hard time recruiting officers and so opened opportunities for enlisted men to get a college education and a commission. As someone who had barely graduated from high school, and who had no particular great skill (I was a draftsman as an enlisted man) I thought the college/commission thing sounded pretty good and I did it. But this was me, and I was very lucky all through my time in service.

What the draft did to me and lots of other young men was steal our youth. Without it I could have gotten the kind of job I wanted and lived a very different life. I was happy to see it end so that it did not take some of my younger brothers.

But the other thing missing in a non-draft world is the sense of the military being temporary. During the years of the draft, whenever men met one of the first things was “Where you from?” because we were from all over the country and had experiences and stories to share from a lot of different view points. Example: one of my roommates grew up in North Dakota where he didn’t have running water or electricity until his teens – I’d never lived in a place without those.

The all volunteer military has a different feel to it. Where you are from means less then ‘what was your last assignment?’ I sense a loss of the thinking that it’s all temporary and everyone will go ‘home’ when it’s over. And what I really think is that we should not be at war all the time.

I was born in 1943. During my entire lifetime, the US has been at some sort of conflict. You might puts some dates on various conflicts, but really we’ve been doing some sort of war somewhere. Even though Congress has not ‘declared war’ there are armed conflicts that we are involved with pretty much all the time. It is my belief that the munitions makers keep promoting these conflicts and their congressional servants keep pouring our money into them.

I'll never forget this ever~
When we got on the bus, some very worried draftee asked the draft board lady, "Mrs. Kennedy, will any of us have to go into the Marines?"
To that, Mrs. Kennedy said, "Don't worry, they have not taken any Marines for a whole month."
When we got to the army base, a lieutenant advised us all that "This is the end of the month when we take Marines."
The worry wart (who was lied to?) was not diverted into the Marines.
When my name was called, I actually imagined myself screaming "Gung ho!" while suicidally charging a Viet Cong machine gun nest.
What I had yet to learn was that Marines were being pulled out of Vietnam at the time.
I was trained at Parris Island, received more training at Camp Lejeune and became a supply clerk for a satellite communications squadron at the Cherry Point air base, never leaving the Carolinas save for going home on leave.

I only extended one year in order to get E5 pay by attending OCS. I was fortunate in getting artillery. Tell your great grandchildren that math pays. I had a lot of math education which I think directed me to artillery OCS. Only went to OCS to be able to still afford my house payment, $98 a month PITI (Principle, Interest, Taxes, Insurance). I did manage to keep it.

I think you remembered just fine. Each and every bus load seemed to operate differently when I got off the bus. Some Marines were every other one, and some were, you, you, you, and you. Yet another bus load lucked out and all became Army soldiers.

You are right. Ike called it the military-industrial complex, existing today as crony capitalism, whose main goal is to sell more munitions. I 'beat the draft' by enlisting in the USAF and really did not get it until I got to retirement age and saw what the senior officers were up to - kissing up to defense contractors was their main goal as they neared retirement. Many of the retired generals get nice jobs working for the munitions makers.

I was told if I stayed, I would make sergeant.
I never wanted in in the first place.
Made a lemon into lemonade corporal under meritorious conditions.
Looked good on job resumes.

I don't remember the five I was with stepping forward in that room we were taken to.
It was how I described it among more draftees after hearing the enlistees take their oath.
This happened way back in 1969. If I'm wrong, so be it.

That changed for a while during the Vietnam War. The Marines needed people smart enough to be admin and supply clerks.
I was trained to be a supply clerk after Parris Island and some advanced weapons training in case I did go to Vietnam, which I didn't.
I never got out of the Carolinas. One time I mentioned to a sergeant that I wouldn't mind getting a transfer to see California.
Told I would have to first "ship over" for four years, I was all like~ naw!~I like it here at Cherry Point, NC, just fine.
I reduced my two years of involuntary servitude by two months by taking what was called a "school cut" and went to college, letting Uncle Sam pay for it with the GI Bill.
Making corporal "under meritorious conditions" looked good on job resumes, and I had the paperwork to prove it.
Handed a lemon, make lemonade. Glad I didn't have to die for nothing like too many others did.

"It's complete bunk that the US was] hampered by senseless, politically driven rules of engagement."
I think that is true. It seems like they had a flawed strategy. In They Marched Into Sunlight and American Soldier, I read that the US has a known policy of not attacking the enemy or even pursing the enemy in a battle in certain areas. So the VC could stay in those areas until it was in their interest to fight. If it became not in their interest and they were able to retreat, they could stop the fighting whenever it suited them. So the US ended up responding to what the VC did, being brought into and out of battle by the enemy, rather than taking the initiative. This is exactly the opposite of The Art of War.

It would be hard to screw up the conduct of a military action (remember, we can't call it a war, because only Congress can do that, and they ducked their responsibility with Vietnam) worse than we did in Southeast Asia. The obsession with body count was the driving factor behind the most egregious atrocities.

Nobody paid attention to Vietnam's history and the thousand year occupation by China. The fear of repeating the Korea scenario prevented operations across the border, with an administration paranoid about Chinese intervention. Mining Haiphong harbor, which could have hampered Russian efforts to resupply North Vietnam was likewise avoided, out of fear of Russian casualties. There was no coherent strategy or set of goals, except to rain down death and destruction.

We even fumbled the final diplomatic solution. After the Paris peace accords and the acceptance of a two state Vietnam, Congress sabotaged South Vietnam by refusing to honor the agreement to continue to supply them with needed arms and ammunition. The South Vietnamese held off the invasion by the North until they ran out of ammunition and supplies. No wonder any U.S. allies today harbor a degree of mistrust in us.