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Truly, the US has arrived

Posted by  $  AJAshinoff 1 year, 2 months ago to History
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I'm embarrassed to say I never bothered to read Orwell's 1984 until recently. Imagine my discomfort, considering what I've written, to come across this passage. Truly, the US has passed into this phase of depravity.

“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.”

― George Orwell, 1984


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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 1 year, 2 months ago
    Me dino just imagined George Washington and Thomas Jefferson removed from Mount Rushmore and replaced by Bill Clinton and Barack Obama.
    Founding Fathers? What Founding Fathers?
    Are we talking about some despicable slave owners who wrote a flawed document?
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    • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
      Replace them with the bastions of socialism- like FDR, Lyndon Johnson, Nixon, Clinton, and Obama. We are going that way anyway
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      • Posted by scojohnson 1 year, 1 month ago
        We need a healthy dose of Teddy Roosevelt for a couple of terms.
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        • Posted by  $  edweaver 1 year, 1 month ago
          You know, Teddy was a Progressive, right?
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          • Posted by scojohnson 1 year, 1 month ago
            I would debate that thoroughly, I've read most of his personal writing. Most cite the common "walk softly, but carry a big stick" foreign policy, but his writings before becoming President were very patriotic and very "help yourself, we won't do it for you".

            Here's one of my favorites:

            Unless we are thorough-going Americans and unless our patriotism is part of the very fiber of our being, we can neither serve God nor take our own part. Whatever may be the case in an infinitely remote future, at present no people can render any service to humanity unless as a people they feel an intense sense of national cohesion and solidarity. The man who loves other nations as much as he does his own, stands on a par with the man who loves other women as much as he does his own wife. The United States can accomplish little for mankind, save in so far as within its borders it develops an intense spirit of Americanism. A flabby cosmopolitanism, especially if it expresses itself through a flabby pacifism, is not only silly, but degrading. It represents national emasculation. The professors of every form of hyphenated Americanism are as truly the foes of this country as if they dwelled outside its borders and made active war against it. This is not a figure of speech, or a hyperbolic statement. The leaders of the hyphenated-American movement in this country (who during the last eighteen months have been the professional German-Americans and Austro-Americans) are also leaders in the movement against preparedness.
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            • Posted by  $  edweaver 1 year, 1 month ago
              I think you are correct. I should have clarified, he became a progressive, during and after his presidency. For me it proved the fact that power corrupts. If, through your research you have proof differently, I'd love to see it.
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              • Posted by scojohnson 1 year, 1 month ago
                He may have been considered somewhat progressive for the time, prior to women's suffrage for example, suffrage was a GOP/Republican effort and heavily opposed by the Democrats, just as abolishing slavery was. I don't regard equal treatment of humans as 'progressive' but it certainly was considered as such at the time.
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            • Posted by IndianaGary 1 year, 1 month ago
              You should read Napolitano's "Theodore and Woodrow: How Two American Presidents Destroyed Constitutional Freedom" for some context. The Kindle edition is about $10.

              "Theodore and Woodrow is Judge Andrew P. Napolitano’s shocking historical account of how a Republican and a Democratic president oversaw the greatest shift in power in American history, from a land built on the belief that authority should be left to the individuals and the states to a bloated, far-reaching federal bureaucracy, continuing to grow and consume power each day"

              "With lessons rooted in history, Judge Napolitano shows the intellectually arrogant, anti-personal freedom, even racist progressive philosophy driving these men to poison the American system of government."
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              • Posted by scojohnson 1 year, 1 month ago
                Actually, I prefer the original writings, I don't read much of the contemporary 'opinion' stuff. I'm a major document/proposal writer for a living, just not a fan of the grammar mistakes that make it into the final print the hired ghost-writers leave.

                The only decent exception would be the original Limbaugh book (See I Told You So) written during the Clinton years. The O'Reilly stuff was awful to read, I made it through about half a chapter before tossing it aside.

                TR ejected the colonial powers from North and South America...
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    • Posted by wiggys 1 year, 1 month ago
      allosaur that is not a healthy thought.

      as for aja we have an uneducated populas so 1984 has become real.
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 1 year, 1 month ago
        Who says allosaurs have healthy thoughts?
        Now that I'm back from Tennessee to see that total eclipse, I feel all the more warped.
        Me dino saw these little weird wriggly things slither sideways across the ground when the sun peeked back out.
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    • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
      You have a point. When I visited the Jefferson museum in charlottesville, I came away thinking the founding fathers were a bunch of intellectually compromised people who just settled on the constitution so they could get enough votes to get it through. Jefferson had slaves himself and didnt free them upon signing the documents, because he "needed" them to keep his plantation going. The history of the USA is definitely not some pristine thing. It was better I suppose in practical terms than other countries, but its flaws are now becoming VERY apparent and will bring down the country.
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      • Posted by  $  edweaver 1 year, 1 month ago
        My understanding is Jefferson couldn't free his slaves because it was illegal to do so. This is why he did finally free them upon his death. I've read this numerous times with footnotes to the actual proof. If I had time, I'd try to find it for you but I don't right now. It may be worth your time to search though. I hate to see someone so important to our county being destroyed, like the progressives want.
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        • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 1 month ago
          You are totally correct, edweaver, but that part of history is strangely omitted. Also omitted is the fact that in the 18th century slavery was prolific all over the world and even the Founders were men of their time and were not as "perfect" as their self-righteous twenty first century detractors seem to be. You hear and read of the ignorant people who declare Jefferson a hypocrite because he had the audacity to pen the words "all men are created equal" in the Declaration of Independence, but don't have the historical knowledge or perspective to realize that phrase was an assault on the Divine Right of Kings and had nothing to do with race, gender, or any other litany of contemporary PC protected species. Except for Obama bowing to the king of Saudi Arabia, Americans are clueless of any previous Royalty/Commoner dichotomy in the national consciousness because Jefferson and the Founders ended it right at the beginning of the new nation. The Declaration's phrase "all men are created equal" was a serious poke in the eye of King George III and the House of Lords. The phrase was also a great seed planted for those who came later to use as a rallying cry to bring even more freedom to the country and the world and Jefferson should be credited even if he was a slave holder in his time.
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          • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
            I think they were all somewhat intellectually inconsistent, as are most people today. They did what they did, and it is history and shouldnt be eradicataed. Same with the confederacy and the union soldiers. The north attacked the south for the sin of wanting to secede and be on their own. Not a great reason. Maybe down with the Ulysses Grant statues too.
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            • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 1 month ago
              Interesting point about Grant and monuments to him. He had no real problem with slavery and didn't think much of the negro. His mantra was definitely "preserve the Union" and the put down of those he considered in rebellion against it. He had no problem pressing "contraband" into service of manual labor to facilitate the fall of Vicksburg and other places. Large portions of the Union Army were composed of soldiers who didn't give a hoot about freeing the negro, but were there to preserve the Union and even came from states that refused admittance to blacks attempting to settle within their borders (I believe Illinois was one of them). Should all their statues be torn down? And what of Confederate soldiers that had no desire to fight for the rich mans slave plantation, but were willing to sacrifice all for the freedom and autonomy of their state? What of Confederate officers that wanted Richmond to free the slaves and let them fight for their homes in the South (Cleburne comes to mind)? Should their statues remain standing?

              Our history in America is rich with struggle and often isn't really "back and white", but we need to preserve it all so we can understand it all.
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              • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
                I have gotten very interested in the whole confederate issue since all this politically correct nonsens has erupted. I dont think we really understand what happened in the civil war at all.

                I like the idea of seceding from the union when the union is bad, like it is now. Preventing the dissolution of a corrupt union doesnt seem to me a "good" reason to kill the people who just want to leave.

                We should leave up ALL the statues, so we can learn from history. Doesnt mean anyone has to agree with everything that was ever done, but it WAS done, and cant be undone.
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                • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 1 month ago
                  Agreed, Term2. I was a Civil War re-enactor for over 20 years and have uniforms for both sides. Yankee born and raised with ancestors who fought for the Union I figured I'd never do Confederate, but ended up doing Confederate far more than Federal (long and interesting story) and studying the "part" was a eye opener on that part of America's history. What's happening today makes me sick at all the ignorance and willful throwing away of our freedom.

                  Here's a true story: About ten years ago I met a re-enactor from England who did a lot of American Civil War portrayals in England. He said it was "big" over there as well as in Sweden, Norway, and Germany. I asked him why American Civil War re-enacting was so popular as England has a rich history and plenty of civil wars of its own. His reply was that most of the flags and symbols of the losers were outlawed for public display so why bother having a re-enactment if you can't do it properly. At the time I assured him that would never happen here because in America we like our history straight up and the First Amendment of the Constitution will protect the losers as well as the winners. I guess I was wrong on that one. [Side note: I have met American Civil War re-enactors from England, Scotland, Sweden, Germany, Australia, and - believe it or not - Russia!]

                  Edit add: Mega-events like 10 year anniversaries of Gettysburg, Shiloh, Chickamauga can draw American Civil War re-enactors from all over the world. I fear all that is about to come to an end.
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        • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
          I went to the jefferson house in charlottesville actually, and the museum people told me that others had freed their slaves but jefferson "needed them to run his plantation". I think he was very intellectually conflicted on the subject, as were most of the other founding fathers. It was what it was, and they all compromised just like today.
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          • Posted by  $  edweaver 1 year, 1 month ago
            Did the people at the museum show you proof? I would love to see it.
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            • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
              the "needed them to run his plantation" came from one of the workers when I pressed him on how Jefferson could say all men were equal while he had slaves who were NOT equal. I tend to believe this, since Jefferson didnt stop using slaves.

              As to others freeing their slaves, it was on printed materials that they gave out and displayed in the museum. Not exactly "proof"
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  • Posted by  $  Suzanne43 1 year, 1 month ago
    I wish that I had the money to put this Orwell quote on billboards across the country. But then again maybe it's too late to wake this country up.
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    • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
      political correctness is the latest weapon to control people. Even the CEO's are afraid to be labeled racists. I say that there are a very tiny number of people who actually believe race is some determiner of human rights. BUT, most people have preferences as to culture, and would rather NOT be around people of a certain culture.
      Currently, the current black culture itself has been steeped in entitlement, and I do NOT like that. Therefore, I want to stay away from those people, and its just not efficient to analyze from afar whether they are entitled or not. Therefore, I label myself a culturist, but the liberals would call me racist (incorrectly). Political correctness be damned as far as I am concerned.
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  • Posted by mccannon01 1 year, 2 months ago
    It clearly offers an explanation as to why I believe a high school graduate in 1980 knew less about American History than an eighth grader in 1940 and a college graduate today knows less than a high school graduate in 1980. I must admit history wasn't my favorite subject back in the '60s, but I am amazed at how much more I knew then than the kids do today. After HS I pursued history more earnestly and began reading more books on the subject. Understanding history was extremely important when I read "Atlas Shrugged" for the first time in the mid '70s.
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  • Posted by term2 1 year, 1 month ago
    If they are going to remove the confederacy from history, they might as remove all of history, including george washington and thomas jefferson (who were both slave holders).

    Removing history means we cant learn FROM history.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 1 year, 1 month ago
    Does any one see a pattern in these demonstrations? It seems to me that there is a nefarious hand with money paying the way for them.I believe it could be George Soros who is behind this march to the real 1984 State. I'm not saying the the those other small white ignorant groups are in the right. But, I will resist in my own way and make my voice heard. Money can buy temporary power or even upset the balance in our country for awhile. A backlash will happen before the !984 State' which could leave the USA physically divided. A Civil War would erupt along different lines. Then whose statues will be erected?
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    • Posted by TheRealBill 1 year, 1 month ago
      A pattern, yes. But not a consciously directed pattern. It does, so far, appear we may be repeating the pattern that gave rise to the Fascists in early 1900s Italy. But it isn't the one everyone seems to think it is.
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  • Posted by ELAshley 1 year, 1 month ago
    Yes, it's very scary stuff. For a long time I thought of 1984, as I did Rand's work, as fanciful, albeit frightening works of "fiction".... doesn't seem like fiction anymore, however, but frightening all the same. And no one seems to see what's happening.
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