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Cleaning the Oceans of Plastic

Posted by CTYankee 6 years, 8 months ago to Science
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I have begun a project intended to clear the oceans of the multiple 'Great Garbage Patches' in the East & West Pacific, North & South Atlantic, etc. I would like to get my fellow Gulcher's opinion on the merit and level of interest such a project might inspire.

The prolem of ocean plastic does seem quite remote to my life. This past weekend I made the mistake of watching a documentary which highlighted the plight of ocean animals unfortunate enough to occupy the stretches of ocean which humans have polluted.

Birds, mammals, fish, and the rest of the sea life are ingesting bits of this garbage, and it is becoming lodged in their guts. The animals are starving to death with their abdomens full of this indigestible material. It was disturbing to see.

More importantly, the plastics tend to leach numerous 'toxic' materials (I'll leave the issue of the actual toxicity out for now) which tend to concentrate in the higher animals as we move up the food chain, this is not new science, but long established fact.

Putting all emotional factors aside, I am interested in the general perception here of a project -- INDEPENDENTLY FUNDED -- (of course) which consists of building a fleet of 300 mechanical whales, whose sole purpose if to swim the oceans, eating the garbage.

Scientific reports and commercial observations put the mass of garbage in one of the Pacific gyres at 750,000 tons, spread out over an area the size of Texas 250,000 square miles.

Each of the 'whales' I propose constructing would cost in the range of $500k with a length of ~35 meters (115 ft). These behemoths would 'swim' slowly, just below the surface, constantly sucking in the top two meters of sea water, much like it's biological counterparts.

Putting the whole effort into perspective: Each mouthful of water would on average contain the food equivalent of 280kCal of 'nutrition' meaning the energy that this 'creature' needs to swim into the next mouthful of garbage.

Borrowing from nature, I have done several energy balance analyses. I concluded that the passive technique of filter feeding is the only possible way to make a self sustaining machine capable of processing even these tiny pockets of contaminated oceans.

And here is where the Objectivist in me needs opinions pro & con. These devices will not collect anything during their 15 year missions. they will swim, and they will eat. None of the plastic will be harvested for resale, reuse, recycling, etc, it will be pyrolyzed, and burned as fuel to power the machine.

So unless the benefits of a cleaner ocean can be monetized, this project lacks one of the key factors of an economically viable enterprise.

Of course there is money to be made by the shipworks that builds the fleet. So it's not a total giveaway.

I eagerly await comments from my fellow Gulchers. Either way. Regardless of the consensus of division reached here I will be starting a crowd-funding campaign to build a prototype in the coming days & weeks.

Thank you all.


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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 6 years, 8 months ago
    1) You provide value to your customers by assuaging their guilt.
    2) They provide value to you monetarily.

    Before it became apparent in 2008/2009 that President Zero was going to finance my solar energy competition with the proceeds of the small, non-cronyist biofuels company that I was director of engineering for, my business partners and I profited by assuaging the guilt of liberals. We even had a guy working with us who, while in Poland in 1958 at age 20, invented a plasma arc reactor similar to Mr. Fusion from The Back to the Future movies. He was as close to a living John Galt as I am ever likely to meet. The ten people in our biofuels company each read AS in 2008, sold the company in early 2009, and shrugged. We had no problem exchanging our value for their value, but were not going to do it with a withering customer base. Likewise, your mechanical whales project, if funded privately and not altruistically, can be morally acceptable if sufficiently profitable.

    The plasma arc reactor my former colleague invented is a little more energy efficient than the internal combustion engine and is more fuel-flexible. Given the variety of hydrocarbon sources your mechanical whales would consume, the plasma arc reactor might be a good choice for your project. What made our plasma arc reactor system better than its plasma arc competitors was the relatively low power it used; this meant that metals were not aerosolized. In your case, any metals ought to remain nonvolatile after pyrolysis, but would have to be removed from the whales during maintenance cycles.

    One of the bigger issues to overcome will be obtaining permissions to approach other countries' borders as a "toxic" garbage seagoing vessel.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      How did you know I was contemplating a plasma-jet to pyrolyze the waste? Actually, I considered it. However, the salts seem to present a formidable corrosion problem. Also the range of particle sizes will range from a few tens of microns, up to several cm. Feedstock prep would seem to require another $10K machine, and a large fraction of the rather limited available 'food' energy. When you say your plasma arc reactor is a little more efficient than an IC engine, I gotta ask you to expand on what you mean? I'm using the engine to spin a generator, and fans, the exhaust to heat the reactor, then dry the fuel. Even the waste heat from the coolant is used to keep the machinery free of condensation.

      I don't expect that there will be a lot of free metal in the pollution, as most of it will have likely sunk to the bottom. The whales will be equipped with a formidable set of 'teeth' in the form of a shredder which will be able to chew up fishing nets, wooden pallets, and rubber duckies.

      I was actually planning to use a fluidized bed reactor to generate a mixed stream of gasified and liquefiable hydrocarbons. This will run a small 20kW genset. Most of the electric power runs the filters, which also provides the swimming motive force. All of the waste heat goes to drying what was ingested. Up to 10% of the garbage's energy is budgeted to be stored as 'light fat' (oils), to keep the beast swimming through the patches of clean water, like when a storm blows things around.

      P.S. Because of the high energy concentration of the occasional floating solids (treats), the extra energy in these snacks will mostly be stored as partially processed 'chewed cud' within the envelope of the beast. It will also alert its fellows that there is a rich grazing area to be exploited.
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      • Posted by $ jbrenner 6 years, 8 months ago
        I didn't know that you were considering a plasma to pyrolyze the waste, but that would be how I would do it.

        While my friend whom I compare to John Galt was the inventor of the plasma arc reactor, I was responsible for feed prepurification and all unit operations downstream of the reactor. Indeed removing salt is the first prepurification step.

        The key to the energy efficiency of our plasma arc was a modification that I will not post on the Internet such that the energy required to sustain the plasma after the reaction was started could be lowered considerably.

        The amount of silica is likely to be problematic. This can be solved, but not very cheaply. Electrostatic precipitators are better than standard gas filters in this respect.

        To get most people to buy into this, you may have to make your whale a "bottom feeder". That is where most of the hazardous waste is.
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        • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
          Bottom feeding is definitely out of the question. Too much area, too much volume. The gyres are areas where the floating garbage has naturally concentrated. Even with that concentration, the water still appears mostly clean. Much of this plastic waste has been degraded into what is referred to as "micro-flotsam' and consists of sub-millimeter bits of fluff. It's concentration drops off rapidly below two meters. It's still a lot of ocean to clean, but it's the dirtiest 0.01% and the only part where the energy balance is favorable to the task.

          Purification and preparation of the waste prior to processing is an unavailable luxury. That's why I rejected plasma in favor of a fluidised bed.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 6 years, 8 months ago
    Indeed, the oceans are an unfortunate example of the “Tragedy of the Commons” not only in plastic waste but in over fishing. A real-life example out of Ken Schoolland's book "Jonathan Gullible." I see no way out yet, but as one who loves the sea, I wish you well.
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  • Posted by upston 6 years, 8 months ago
    Hi Yankee, I live on a 55 ft laminated ferro cement boat and am knowledgeable on it's marine construction applications. I was in southern India last year building large floating barges for a solar project. Concrete whales would have many advantages over steel or GRP and would cost a fraction of "normal" marine materials. If you would like details I would love to get involved.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      Hi Upston,

      YES! I'd live to borrow some of your expertise & experience. Is that un Galt-like?

      While I've worked a project that was deployed in geologically active areas (geothermal plant) it was subject to the constant corrosive effects of sulphur bearing gases, but only the occasional (weekly) earthquake. I suspect the sea, with it's constant motion and only mildly corrosive saltwater requires different design choices.
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  • Posted by shaifferg 6 years, 8 months ago
    Researchers in Italy have discovered a worm that can digest plastic. Investigation continues on discovering what the chemicals are in the worm's gut that do this with hope of developing a chemical that can be sprayed on the plastics to dissolve them.
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  • Posted by wiggys 6 years, 8 months ago
    i pent 15 months as a live aboard sailing the south atlantic and would see the old calypso in fort Lauderdale and NEVR saw the pollution except in new York harbor from where I left. I can tell you live a board's were even in the 70's when I was at sea were very respectful and rarely from what I observed threw much into the sea unless it was edible. just look at the oceans from the satellites that circle the globe and see for your selves that it is not polluted.
    when you look at the rivers that flow through the Asian countries the cleanest water is at the start of the river and as it goes down stream there is significant human waste deposited along the way. you shouldn't eat seafood that is harvested in the mecong delta.
    All of this crap about polluted oceans is directed at the USA and we in the USA are more conscious of eliminating pollution that ANY OTHER COUNTRY IN THE WORLD.. It is time to let the USA rest.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      I respectfully disagree. The pollution seems insignificant when viewed from orbit, or even from aircraft.

      But these gyres are well documented. They exist, they are real, they are killing wildlife, and the garbage is working its way up the foodchain.

      If you had asked me this question last week, I'd've been in near agreement with what you stated. Interestingly I still agree with most of your statements. Just not the conclusions.

      My project won't do anything to STOP the new pollution, except perhaps create awareness. But it will reduce the problem which CURRENTLY exists.
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  • Posted by rhfinle 6 years, 8 months ago
    How is this thing going to avoid picking up the floating rafts of sargasso, jellyfish, and other surface dwelling sea life? It seems to me there will have to be some sort of intelligent selection mechanism.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 8 months ago
    Is this thing going to be piloted or remote controlled?...
    Looks to me the only way you could profit would be selling the beast to other countries for the same use in their areas.
    But, what has me scratching my head is why haven't we recycled the plastic back into the oil is was made from...from the beginning?
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      They will be autonomous. Other than having the ability to communicate with each other and report their results and various bits of sensor data, they're not intended to bring anything back to land.

      While the amount of plastic waste out there is enormous, it's scattered so far and wide that recovery would be a fool's errand. I spent a day building a spreadsheet to compute the energy contained in all the waste in all the water. The ratio was very small.

      So I worked out how much energy there was in the biggest 'swallow' of water I could reasonably capture in an oceangoing sluice-box.

      Then I started computing the energy necessary to push that water through the screens in a reasonable amount of time ~ 5 minutes, wasting as little power as possible.

      I computed how much water the debris would entrain in its wet goopiness, and how much water I could evaporate with the remaining available energy after the filtering cost.

      More of the energy in the fuel is consumed by pyrolyzing the long polymers into gases & liquids. and then only a fraction of that fuel energy is converted into electricity by the Diesel genset.

      At the bottom of the spreadsheet I had a TINY positive remainder of energy! Not much, but in nature, huge energy surpluses are rare. Bringing it home would take more energy in new fuel oil than the yield in recycled oil recovered. It's a poor strategy.

      There is just enough 'food' out there in the garbage patch gyres to support my population of whales for 15 years. After that, like 99.9% of all species that ever evolved, they will starve, die and go 'extinct' {sniff}.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 8 months ago
        Ever think of making electricity from electrolysis?
        I have been thinking about making large batteries in the ocean right off the beach at Hospice in Branford.
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        • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
          You can't "make energy from electrolysis." You can recover a small fraction of the energy that went into refining the metals you plan to dissolve into the ocean. But the payback will be negative.
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          • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 8 months ago
            That's essentially what happens in a salt water battery isn't it.
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            • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
              Yes, salt-water aka sea-water batteries generally use Magnesium and iron plates. They are primary batteries which once activated are run to exhaustion. Many moons ago I worked on an Aluminum-Air battery for Alcan. These also used normal salt-water brine and were meant to operate continuously for a week, and be kicked overboard. The damn things were mostly chalk filled polystyrene. Fortunately(?) they were heavy enough to sink in the harbors. At the time we thought we were doing a good thing. The Al-Air battery was to be a once-a-week replacement to a once-a-day 6-volt lantern battery - which had to be kicked overboard every evening.
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  • Posted by term2 6 years, 8 months ago
    I would think that more energy would be harvested than it took to move the thing around and burn up the plastic.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      Yes, but the surplus is only a few thousand Joules per 'swallow' of ocean. The 'gut' where the water & fuel are separated is 100ft long and 5ft wide. 2500 cu. ft or 75 tons of of ocean!

      It all comes down to numbers. There is actually more Platinum in a shovelfull of road gravel then there is energy in all that water. The buoyancy of water works on my favor here... {ha-ha}

      But hey. I'm an optimist too. Maybe the beast swims into a particularly dirty patch of water and even after summoning its mates, all the tanks are full of oil.

      The single logistics challenge then becomes: Can a barge be deployed 3,000 miles out to sea to pickup say a quarter million gallons of oil? Or if the value of that endeavor too small to justify the voyage? I dunno.

      Chances are that the economics won't support the expedition/pickup. In that case the whales can actually switch into higher gear. Clean faster, and be done with the job sooner.

      And this is why I love spreadsheets. ;^)
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      • Posted by term2 6 years, 8 months ago
        Sounds like the energy contained in the trash now dumped into the oceans would be worth MORE if just collected and dealt with before its unloaded into the ocean. Maybe extract the energy at the landfills before burying it also
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        • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
          Yeah, it probably would. But that's an academic issue. The problem is that it's really inexpensive to carelessly toss garbage into the rivers any let the tides flush it away. People are disgusting dirty animals!
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          • Posted by term2 6 years, 8 months ago
            We just toss it in the trash and never think about where it goes. I always thought it went into landfills. How does it get into the oceans ? Or is it mostly from other countries?
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            • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
              Yeah. We're not perfect but most of the first world is pretty good about egregious pollution. Poor third-world countries are not.

              The film I saw toured a 'land-fill' in the Philippines. The mountain of garbage was 160 feet high and covered dozens of square miles. The filth was palpable and I swore I could smell the burning stench. Many areas of the mountain were emitting great lingering clouds of smoke & steam as fires tunneled their way into the piles. The proximity of the landfill to the sea was intentional. the planners actually expected the degraded garbage to flow out with the tides.
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  • Posted by mgarbizo1 6 years, 8 months ago
    Sounds ridiculous to think, but you might get some push back from Peta and the likes if they want to say you are disrupting ecosystems or killing the sea life that gets ensared by these trash items as your mechanical whales perform their intended purpose. I think you're on to something though.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      My friend told me that "PETA" is an acronym for "People Eating Tasty Animals" -- but I digress.

      I would hope that Greenpeace and all the rest of the eco-warriors would choose to endorse this project. While I have great confidence in my engineering skills and my ability to make my whales physically manifest on reality, I'm also not kidding myself to suggest that there is money to be made in their operation.

      They do not harvest any natural (I don't consider floating garbage to be natural) resources. They will collect data, but I do not know if the data each whale would collect over its 15 year lifespan is worth the cost of construction. They are also very slow and ponderous. There's not enough energy in the 'food' they swallow for them to 'swim' under power. They have fins to control their direction and orientation, and bladders to manage buoyancy. The move in the direction the mouth ingests and the tail exhausts. (I just didn't want to call them jellyfish.)
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  • Posted by evlwhtguy 6 years, 8 months ago
    The "Ocean Huggers" will not like burning the Garbage to power the machine. They will go on endlessly about all the toxins and heavy metals precipitating out in to the oceans from the smoke....net result....nothing gets done!

    Your idea is fabulous.....however I guarantee the biggest polluting countries will not pay for this, and sure as hell the average ocean hugger wont spend one dime of their own money, they will spend their time trying to squeeze money out of the producers because they have omitted the sin of creating wealth.
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      Whether they like it or not, the garbage is already out there. The pollution is already in the water. The metallic toxins are in the food chain.

      I think the single biggest complaint the 'rabid environmentalists' will have is that in 15 years they'll lose one of their cause célèbre. We'll see.

      I agree, the really disgusting part of the problem comes from asia, the philippines, indonesia, etc. Where garbage in the slums just flows into the ocean.

      But the rest of the problem is stuff falling off ships. I cite 'rubber duckies' jokingly and seriously. But fishing nets, buoys, and the flotsam & jetsam of civilization is all out there!
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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 8 months ago
    It sounds like a great idea. I'm not an expert, but one thing is going to be hazard detection and navigation. Something that big at that depth is going to be a hazard to other seagoing vessels. I'm sure you've thought about it, but how are you going to prevent other craft from accidentally colliding with your "whales"?
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    • Posted by 6 years, 8 months ago
      It's a valid point, and one I've considered if only superficially. Once again, I'm planning to borrow from nature. When my whale detects an approaching vessel that is not pinging the correct IFF signal, the beast will simply submerge to a depth that takes it out of harm's way.

      I considered this defense mechanism early on, for the simple reason that I don't want salvage vessels to haul the whales aboard and carve then up as a few hundred tons of scrap stainless steel! They're unmanned after all.

      But the primary reason is to escape the worst of the ocean weather. 30ft seas can ruin a 100ft vessel in a very short time. If it dips 140ft below the surface and hangs there, those 30 ft waves are just ripples on the pond.

      Once the danger has past, the ballast tanks are blown, the whale rises back to the surface and it resumes feeding.

      I'm not certain what the specifics in maritime law are regarding blue-water UAV's flying flags, flashing strobes, ringing bells, etc. is, but I don't believe compliance is a huge obstacle. I do know that each whale will be in communication with its fellow behemoths.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 6 years, 8 months ago
        I would expect some interference from actual marine life - whales, sharks, etc. I assume that your escape mechanism would also trigger if a real whale approached one of your craft...but I am less certain of what the result would be.

        One of the other aspects of this problem - one easier to control is that the source of much of the plastic is from urban storm drains. If there were coarse screens on the storm drains, much of the source of the problem might be removed.

        Jan
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