Selfish vs. Self-Centered

Posted by jmlesniewski 12 years, 5 months ago to Philosophy
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I've been thinking a lot about these two concepts over the last two ones and am thinking of writing something about it. What are your thoughts on it?


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  • Posted by EAJewett 9 years, 3 months ago
    I was going to post a similar question, as "how to best explain selfish is not a bad thing?"
    Lots of good thought here. The word selfish certainly has picked up some undeserved baggage. I posit it is based on enlightened self-interest, which to my mind is one of the most honest motivations. I find it very difficult to explain to someone who hasn't read Rand.
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  • Posted by wgingram1 12 years, 5 months ago
    Best damn description yet.
    I look out for myself front and foremost.
    I will not intentionally harm another
    If I do I just insure it was not with malice.
    I help others who deserve my admiration and who live by my standards.
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  • Posted by CapitalistFred 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Guilt caused by the acceptance of a standard of "the good" that is completely impossible to achieve for any human.
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  • Posted by CapitalistFred 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    No real god would want or need self sacrifice. The mystic leaders though, can use self sacrifice to keep the populace in line and to line threir pockets.
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  • Posted by CapitalistFred 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    In what way is that a false dichotomy? Are you saying that there is a 3rd way?

    1) Self centered
    2) Other centered
    3) What else is there upon which to center your life? I suppose one can concieve of an unbalanced person with no center whatsoever who "blows with the wind"..... is that what you have in mind here?
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Tone"? I think hearing a 'tone' in the written word is difficult to do correctly. My typewritten 'tone" has been misinterpreted a thousand times over. (But I'm butting-in here. Sorry.)
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  • Posted by CapitalistFred 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Which was the word that offended you?

    In logic we call (any statement of fact that is unsupported by data) a gratuitious assertion.

    My intention was not to offend, and the fact that you have evidently taken offense at me pointing out your logical error is quite telling.
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I agree there are synonyms and you have pointed out an error in my approach, but based on your tone and word choice, I have no desire to continue a discussion with you.
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    If selfish and self-centered are the same, then you have convinced me I have no desire to be either. No, I'm not going to become selfless. That's a false dichotomy.
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  • Posted by CapitalistFred 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "1. They are different words so they have different meanings, otherwise there wouldn't be a need for both of them."

    Thatis classic circular reasoning. Your gratuitous assertion (that every word has a different meaning than every other word) can be gratuitously denied.

    There are many many words with the same meanings as others - we call them synonyms.
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  • Posted by Solver 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And where did that concept of self sacrifice come from? A real God? Which one? More likely it was developed by long dead rulers that wanted to control the masses keeping them passive and obedient.
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  • Posted by CapitalistFred 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I think a lt of people hold a "god centered" life as an ideal, but no one can come close to living that way and still survive on earth.

    One would have to give away all of one's food and possessions to "the poor" or "the church" to even get started.... and one would need to ensure that everyone on earth had enough to eat before ever having a bite of food.
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  • Posted by Solver 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Lot's of people try it. What about those who are God centered? Those centering themselves on something without real identity. It takes faith because rational thought just doesn't get you to believe in the mystical worlds of the supernatural.
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  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    since one definition of the word go is to act, it's prescriptive.
    I feel like we're debating an is-ought. If you start with a premise of human life has value you can go from "is" to "ought" in 1 second. Now we're discussing ethics. Is that your interest? If your interest is linguistics, then I'll disagree on your definition of self centered. Webster's first definition starts with "concerned solely or chiefly with one's own welfare, interests." it ends with egotistical. second definition is "independent, self-sufficient." third, "centered in oneself" I referred to this definition earlier. finally, "fixed,unchanging." If you want to change the definition to include not in one's rational self interest, ie. what people commonly consider "selfish" are you any better than cultures that have changed the definition of o altruistic or selfless to be synonymous with "good"?
    About the same time I first read Fountainhead, I was taking a critical theory . I was struck that I was being taught to value the critic the same or higher than the producer, because that was really the point. Toohey, anyone?
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  • Posted by CapitalistFred 12 years, 5 months ago
    They are completely synonymous. There is no difference whaysoever between being self centered ( ie all of my priorities are based on MY personal values) and selfishness (a concern with one's own affairs).

    Anyone who is truly selfish is. by definition, self centered. Why in the world would anyone center themselves on anyone else??? Is it even possible?
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  • Posted by $ 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The word ebonics describes a specific existent.

    The word "go" is not prescriptive. You made it that way by putting it into a sentence.
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  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    she did the big catch with the novel, but the philosophical treatises followed. she was going to use the vehicle of fiction novel. that is apparent from the get go. have you read her earliest short stories? Inspiration, passion drove Rand. We are enjoying the products of her passion. One can be an historian and cover that territory. or move forward. at a young age, she figured out how to leave an oppressive regime. surely we can find a new frontier? or at least boldly go where no man has gone before. wait-is that star trek? I don't even like star trek.
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  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You have me on your second point. I concede to the definition of self. Actually, hanging around in there might get you pretty far in developing more.
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  • Posted by khalling 12 years, 5 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I disagree. Some words are prescriptive. Like the imperitive. Go!
    I assumed we were working in a philosophical context. You are presuming "need" for both. I am asking you to question that. I don't know the origins of self-centered. but I'll bet you some monopoly money it's been used in speech fewer years than selfish has. why is that? We don't need the word ebonics, for example. :)
    self absorbed is more descriptive than self-centered.
    btw, like the web presence. In particular, the Offspring t shirt.
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