Hand grenades and Horseshoes

Posted by Herb7734 1 month, 3 weeks ago to Politics
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My position is that it is not the business of government to provide health care or health insurance, which by the way, are two separate
things.However, once promised, there's no going back. As a result, the abomination which is laughingly called the "Affordable Care Act" or "Obamacare" was foisted upon the American citizenry. That resulted in seven years of Republicans promising to void the act and come out with something better if they ever can get into the seats of power.And so they have. But like a calcium constipated individual they came close, but were unable to succeed even though they own all three parts of the elected government. Coming close, as you know, only works with hand grenades and horseshoes.

So, what do we have now? Politicians that I formally called weasels, have lowered themselves to the status of worms, John McCain being the chief worm. It is a shame to witness a person losing his integrity over personal spite. It is a deterioration from American Hero to American Schmuck (or whatever body part you name.).


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  • Posted by chad 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    Unfortunately there is no remedy to ensure the elected officials will honor their oath to protect and abide by the constitution. None of what has been done by the ACA is allowed by constitutional law however the courts will rule in favor of it (supreme court has already ruled it is constitutional because it is a tax which also admits it is not healthcare) and the federal police will enforce it (use violence to ensure compliance) leaving those who would be free the choice of suicide by cop or imprisonment if they resist. As stated in previous posts there never was any intention of repealing the act. The promise to repeal and replace is another way of stating that the rules will still apply, just differently. The ACA does not just require a premium payment which has increased my cost 10X but a deductible which has increased 100X. There are ACA taxes on real estate sales (5%), all medical appliances (toothbrushes, sanitary pads, crutches, etc.), and some health care providers and even tanning salons. The income stream from this law would make any insurer jealous. This not a law to provide healthcare, it is to bring in tax dollars and not spend them on healthcare unless absolutely necessary. I don't know if you can find enough people who truly want to live free to enable themselves to do so. Those who would not be slaves are hopelessly outnumbered and threatened with violence by those who prefer slavery.
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    • Posted by  $  Ben_C 1 month, 3 weeks ago
      There are always intended and unintended consequences of any legislation. It is in the governments best interest to have healthy people alive and sick people dead. I too have had my premiums and deductibles rise to the level of absurd ($32,000 per year for mediocre coverage). If / when I ever get really sick it will be better for my family for me to die than face bankruptcy. Intended consequence?
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      • Posted by 1 month, 3 weeks ago
        Being very old, I hear you loud and clear. The good thing about being this age is that death is usually quick and no one works too hard to save you, (He had a good life). I am fortunate, that while I have not escaped the ills of old age, all the costs and red tape have been taken care of so that children won't be bothered by it.
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  • Posted by Abaco 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    I haven't liked McCain for many years now. He's a putz. He once was brave and I appreciate his sacrifices. But, he's wholesale against liberty anymore. Much closer to those who locked him up. I actually pity him and I hope he heals physically and emotionally.

    Government should not be involved in providing healthcare nor insurance. They are simply too corruptible. I have seen things in this that would absolutely blow your mind...
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    • Posted by ewv 1 month, 3 weeks ago
      There was nothing to appreciate about McCain. He was not a "war hero", which means doing something exceptional to further the fighting of a war to win. He was a prisoner of war who has made sacrifice his life theme. He even boasted that he could have gotten out because of his father's position but chose to stay and sacrifice more. In one of his presidential campaign "debates" with Obama, they held a love fest talking back and forth each outdoing the other in extolling sacrifice.

      His dishonest reversal of his Senatorial election campaign promise to repeal Obamacare is only the latest in his ultimately always going back to his basic principles of demanding sacrifice and expecting people to like it.

      Government control of health care is much worse than the accompanying inevitable corruption. Altruistic egalitarian nihilism dragging us all down to a lowest common denominator and government control and restrictions on what we can do for our own health is wrong in principle.
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    • Posted by 1 month, 3 weeks ago
      First of all let me say that your use of the word "putz" is most appropriate. I called him a schmuck which is used as slang for jewels as in "family jewels" as in penis. A putz is a small penis.As to McCain, he is a sad embarrassment.
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  • Posted by Abaco 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    Without getting into it very much...I have, due to my work, terrific insight into the health care/government complex. If this continues on we'll see a hell of a lot of misery foisted upon citizens via a terribly mismanaged medical system. Already happening...
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  • Posted by starznbarz 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    We get what we allow. Until Americans, the vast majority that actually are paying the Republics bills, decide as a group they have had enough of the obvious BS coming from all but a very few elected officials and show up - not call, not e-mail, show up at the offices of their reps & sens to DEMAND they do as the voters made clear their wishes, nothing will change. We will continue to hear the platitudes and outright lies from this entrenched congress, until we perform our responsibility as the employer and force compliance of our employees, we will continue to be ignored. It is not difficult, find the donors, the businesses they run, the fundraisers and the home address of your "voice in D.C."and show up over and over - know 5 people that agree with you - 10? Take them with you. Too hard to do? The only other option is acceptance, both of the situation and the blame for our unwillingness to act.
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    • Posted by 1 month, 3 weeks ago
      Tried that. In today's society, when you try to organize from a strictly moral basis you find that you reach a point where you become an annoyance, sort of like 7th Day Adventists. Unless there is a giveaway included success is not to be had, and like this most excellent gulch, with all due respect, we are just talking to one another.
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      • Posted by starznbarz 1 month, 3 weeks ago
        I was in on the festivities in D.C. in 09,10 & `12, plus almost every national event until 2015. In that same spread of years, we covered and participated in many local events to make the point that we wanted our elected weasels to follow their oath and the Constitution - we made great strides and the historic national election results are the proof. We are now faced with the reality that the GOP is the DNC - they are very content that we seem to have gone away, that should be what motivates us, as 2018 is the only thing in the critters heads, we should point to Trump and say " want more of that?" Washington lost way more battles than he won, yet look how it ended. We can take a lesson from that, if we are willing.
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        • Posted by 1 month, 2 weeks ago
          The enemy you know is less to be feared than the enemy you don't know. Embedded within the GOP are RINOs and widdle bitty kiddies who were insulted by Trump and others who have grudges against him and are out to make sure he fails. If he eventually Trumps them and wins out, he will be one heluva hero as far as I'm concerned. That doesn't mean I'll agree or even like what does -- or maybe I will. But you gotta give the guy credit for guts.
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  • Posted by rogershe 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    Add nuclear bombs. Close is good enough. Carl, your comments are clear. Chad, right on. "Circutguy", I agree, people are stupid. Let them be stupid.
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  • Posted by  $  winterwind 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    don't malign worms. like assholes, they perform a useful and necessary service.

    I have proposed for some time that swear words/dirty words/insults should use the nastiest, naughtiest words we know: Senator, Congress, Commissioner.......and the ever useful, "Oh, Fed You" or "Fed It". disclaimer: not directed at any particular individual, merely an example.
    This word-usage can lead to wonderful conversations - and arguments.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    Triffids! I say, Triffids!!! That is the only Congress can be cleared out. We can't wait for 2018 elections. They will probably be contested by the Dims.
    Pray for Triffds!!!!!! My wife just mentioned that Godzilla just meandered across the the yard. I will try to lasso him and ride him to DC to take care of business.
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  • Posted by  $  Olduglycarl 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    Half of my mind wants to just go to unwash-ington and just tell em this is what ya all gona vote for, and if ya don't like it...you can just go home.
    1...no subsidies for anyone...ins. co's, drug addict co's, hospitals or doctors...ya all gona compete.
    (for the liberals in the audience; Competition is two or more individuals or entities dependent upon each other to be the best they can be)
    2 ya gona compete across state lines.
    3 one's chosen health care plan Will follow them from job to job.
    4 all ins co's hospitals and doctors Will use the exact same paper work.
    5 all ins co's Will NOT deny coverage to anyone that gets really sick, is out of work or suffers any other economic circumstance until the ins co's put that person into a private donated subsidized plan to get them over that hurdler.
    6 An initial moratorium on pre existing conditions will be in effect for 1 year, after that time, if anyone does not have HC coverage and gets or has a PEC will be subject to a 1 year waiting period before coverage for that condition will take place...This is the consumers responsibility.
    7 Tort reform will establish a limit on compensation but any person or heathcare org that screws up. The person or persons involved will be liable for what they have done, proven by a court of law.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    "seven years of Republicans promising to void the act and come out with something better if they ever can get into the seats of power.And so they have. "
    I'm surprised too that they haven't come up with something.

    It always struck me over-the-top their rhetoric was. They couldn't say there were problems that originated with gov't interference in the labor market int WWII, and the repressions of that are still affecting us. Instead they came up with bizarre conspiracy-minded criticisms like the "death panels" and that the healthcare law is back-door measure to allow warrantless searches. Now it's hard to admit that it solved some real problems and any efforts to reform it and reduce gov't involvement has to go through the insurance industry lobby. Starting with the lie that the law was pure evil prevents them from addressing it.

    I'm not exactly sure how the politics works because Rand Paul was able to be straightforward in offering a clear alternative that gets the gov't less involved. President Trump campaigned on price openness. I'm not sure why they can't execute, if it's their past extreme rhetoric or what.
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    • Posted by 1 month, 3 weeks ago
      It is the nature of most politicians, regardless of which side, that their chief object is to get re-elected. Anything which threatens that possibility is not on their agenda. It matters not whether its best for the country or even the very reason why they were elected in the first place. Follow that thread and you'll quickly realize that anything which isn't a socialistic giveaway or a defect so obvious a 5 year old can spot it, and you'll understand their motives.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 month, 3 weeks ago
        "It is the nature of most politicians, regardless of which side, that their chief object is to get re-elected."
        That's by itself is a good thing. The problem is there are no effective limits on what gov't power and spending can do, so to play at that level they have to promise to have the gov't do things to help them.

        On one hand I think we need more Rand Paul, but I also think the gov't can't be dependent on electing a bunch of Rand Paul. It would be nice, but the system has to be robust against ordinary politicians.

        The fact that it's not robust is a huge problem. We don't recognize it because it's not urgent. It's not something where we're at an immediate fork in the road and must take action during a narrow window of opportunity. It's a festering, looming problem that might be able to exist for a hundred years before coming to a head. And it might not happen in a spectacular way.

        I don't fully understand the Convention of the States idea, but more and more I see the Constitution as something we kind of follow when it's popular to do so, and there needs too some vehicle to enforce it.
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        • Posted by  $  blarman 1 month, 3 weeks ago
          " there needs too some vehicle to enforce it."

          On the contrary, you can't force people to manage and run their own lives, which was and remains the crux of individual liberty and rights. People have to want to make choices for themselves and take responsibility for their decisions - positive or negative. That isn't something you can force on people. It has to be a responsibility willingly accepted.

          "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

          - John Adams

          What he is getting at is that the Constitution only works with a people who seek self-determination. It breaks down as soon as people do not want to determine their own destinies.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 1 month, 3 weeks ago
            "you can't force people to manage and run their own lives,"
            What is the point of having a constitutional republic rather than a democracy if we're dependent on the morals of the citizens? We would put it up to a popular vote who should get to keep their money and under which circumstances the gov't should do warrantless searches, confiscate guns, and limit unpopular speech. The people would be so moral, in this scenario, that they would never use their power when absolutely necessary, never as a mob.

            I don't see how this could work. We have the same foibles we've had since humans appeared on earth. There has to be some structure with teeth to keep a democratically run republic from turning into a mob.
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            • Posted by  $  blarman 1 month, 3 weeks ago
              "What is the point of having a constitutional republic rather than a democracy"

              The real question is better put thus: "What is the point of having a republic rather than a dictatorship?"

              Pure democracies only work in small groups where the individuals are properly informed and use a logical/rational decision-making process. When any of those conditions is missing you get mob rule as a result of inflamed passions and/or incorrect information. But if one accepts the premise that coercion against another is immoral, one must also accept the premise that all cooperation in interactions between two or more people must be voluntary in nature, which includes one's capacity and use of intellect to learn and make decisions and to bridle one's passions/emotions. What is the difference between a republic and a dictatorship? The use of force - plain and simple.

              "Structure" does not prevent people from making bad decisions. That is the key to understanding any attempt at government. People must choose to live according to moral precepts and accept that they can not force another person to follow. Our nation's Founders took the fundamental stand that individual rights and voluntary choice must be the paramount foundations for this nation, recognizing the foibles of man and their struggles with power. Thus they created a system which encouraged and supported individual rights and voluntary choice and took measures to protect from encroachment upon these principles, but because the entire system is built upon willing volition, one must also accept that there may be volition to rebel against such and seek for coercive power over others.

              What you are looking for is the silver bullet that will force everyone to respect natural rights and live accordingly. It does not exist because force and volition are antithetical ideals.
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    • Posted by  $  DrZarkov99 1 month, 3 weeks ago
      As has been said many times, in a democracy/republic, the people get the government they deserve, because they're guilty of voting for the weasels/snakes/maggots. Of those Republicans who voted against repeal/replace, Susan Collins is the most reputable, as her stand is consistent with her old fashioned Rockefeller-style liberal Republican beliefs. Murkowski is truly a weasel, since she either voted previously assured of an Obama veto, or she hadn't bothered to ask her constituents how they wanted her to vote before this latest round. McCain is truly a maggot, since he maligned the character of all House Republicans when he stated he didn't trust them to negotiate, and for all his noble rhetoric, voted as he did because he felt Trump had disrespected his hero status.
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