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Solar Minimum: The Sun Is Getting Quieter and Is Displaying Some Very Weird Behavior

Posted by $ nickursis 6 years, 9 months ago to Science
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Several people in the Gulch hve mentioned this, and a whole slew of You Tubers have videos on it going back a few years. I gues the question is: does it impact climate change? Is the increased variations in solar output to blame, maybe there has been a small increase in output not identified? These are all things I would like to see addressed before I would jump in on the greenhouse bandwagon, along with a complete explanation of why, if CO2 is climing to huge levels, are certain nations allowed to destroy some of the great CO2 absorption machines (like the Amazon rainforest) with nothng being said, no action taken, but "evil" man always the culprit for producing it? Maybe I am too simplistic but...
SOURCE URL: https://www.yahoo.com/news/solar-minimum-sun-getting-quieter-231002138.html


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  • Posted by $ blarman 6 years, 9 months ago
    The number one source of climate is the Sun - not the planet. I just shake my head when people don't immediately look at the Sun as the cause of most climate events. Back in the late 80's and 90's El Nino and La Nina at least got that part right in acknowledging that it was the sun's energy which created the hot spots in the Pacific in the first place. Nowadays "scientists" have abandoned rational thinking in favor of their next grant.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 9 months ago
    CO2 levels have been 10 to 100 times higher than today, you might say, there is not enough. CO2 is an electrical dispersent, something we might need in the years to come.

    The Amazon rain forest does not create OX nor CO2...it's a wash; breathing in CO2, exhaling OX- daytime and just the opposite during the night. CO2 hangs around during winter and is not in demand due to most of the green plant and tree life being dormant...and again, just the opposite during spring, summer and early fall.

    News Flash...most of our oxygen comes from the interactions of cosmic radiation and our ionosphere and perhaps other process we haven't discovered yet.

    NOAA and NASA has been caught tampering with the temperature data; not to mention years of installing temperature recording equipment in the hottest parts of cities...still, the original data and satellite data can be found and it all averages out to net cooling.

    Grand Solar Minimums are noted for mostly cold cloudy weather, warmer or the same as usual in some areas but the worst of all things: Unpredictability of temperature in relation to growing food.

    Did you know we lost 40% of our wheat crops here in the USA due to freak snow storms in May this year. Did you know that most of Europe has lost their Fruit crops in the past two years due to freak cold, ice and snow storms.

    Yes, it's the Sun Silly and has been on a reliable Cycle for millions of years. Start with the Dalton and Maunder-(GSM) minimums and work your way back, 400 years at a time.
    Remember, at the onset of a GSM, Europe usually gets it first and they have already.

    What confounds us in the present onset of another GSM is our weakening magnetic shielding and rapidly moving magnetic poles; we have no idea how this will, if at all, effect the coming climate change...But the one thing we do know is...it's not your fault!

    When thinking of climate, always remember that Environment, weather and climate are different things. Climate is weather and temperature patterns over a long period of time of which the condition of our Environment plays absolutely No role what so ever.

    Just like Los Vegas...what happens in the troposphere...stays in the troposphere.
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  • Posted by fosterj717 6 years, 9 months ago
    It is easy to understand. Climate change has been with us for millions of years! When the "Global Warming" crowd speak, they only want to speak about man-made root causes. This approach is fallacious and simplistic (I am trying to be kind).

    The reality is that whatever takes with the workings (and output) of the sun will be definition have an impact on the planets surrounding it. The question is to what extent. As for the most recent "drop" in the temperature of the surface of the sun, we have no idea of what is causing it however, if you look at the various readings (and images) taken from the SOHO satellite, it is striking in the shear size of the "hole".

    Solar flares also have an impact (good and bad) and now after a number of years, scientists are predicting (based on studies) that the sun will be going into what amounts to a dormant period that will be much quieter than previous solar cycles. Again, this is not man-made and will have impacts for probably the next 10 or 15 years at least.

    Lastly, as was stated previously, even the "rant" that carbon dioxide (man-made of course) was the "root" cause of "Global Warming", now as of a week or so ago, Russian and French scientists working together in the Antarctic have take 10,000 year old core samples of the ice and what do they find? That contrary to "conventional wisdom" of today's "climatologists" global warming was preceded (not a result of) carbon dioxide. The samples do not lie. This basically turns the "hypothesis" the Global warming crowd has been using on its head.

    So, the point here is that good science takes all data, uses hypothesis first, builds the appropriate protocols, tests results of those experiments and uses "honest" outcomes with all data to continue to search for the Truth - Empiricism not "pop" science!

    For these reasons all of the demonizing those who have not signed onto the man-made, global warming bandwagon should return to good science. With that being said, there is definitely climate change afoot (has been for millions of years) however spending trillions of dollars in the wrong place accomplishes absolutely nothing!

    For what its worth!
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    • Posted by IndianaGary 6 years, 9 months ago
      "This approach is fallacious and simplistic (I am trying to be kind)."

      It's actually quite nefarious. The purpose of AGW is the destruction of capitalism and the global redistribution of wealth. Applying reason is only really appropriate when you're talking to someone rational and this criteria doesn't apply to the AGW true believers.
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      • Posted by fosterj717 6 years, 9 months ago
        Agreed! Just trying to be a little less confrontational about the presentation of facts regarding the science.....You are absolutely correct however that this is agenda driven ploy that is designed to destroy the industrial democracies (Antonio Gramsci). It is also just a tool that the hard left is using to confuse and frighten a basically naive and "under educated" world population so that control can be grabbed in the name of the public good (and the redistribution of wealth can continue unabated).......
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 6 years, 9 months ago
    The sun cycles between active and passive periods, with the active being associated with planetary warm periods, and the passive with cooler climate. The last quiet cycle was associated with the Maunder minimum, leading to the little ice age several hundred years ago (from which we have been recovering, with planetary warming).
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  • Posted by Herb7734 6 years, 9 months ago
    I wonder how the sun changes currently happening can be attributed to humanity. There is no doubt that this will cause climate change in some form or another. If that's the case, then surely fossil fuels used by the human race must be at fault. Why not? This is just as probable as blaming humanity for global worming or the many other changes in the earth's climate.
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    • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 9 months ago
      The influx of cosmic radiation, electron bombardments, magnetic shield and atmospheric compression events seem to play havoc with the brains of the unaware. That is not to say that Conscious humans don't have a tough time as well, especially with physical health issues but Conscious folk, have access to a mind that helps control the temptations of the bicameral brain.
      We can look back in history and find a lot of bizarre stuff going on with humanity and humanoids during these events.
      The biggest problems are food production which has played a major role in the collapse of civilizations and societies in the past.
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  • Posted by $ Snezzy 6 years, 9 months ago
    For an interesting excursion into cosmology, astrology and climatism we need merely look at the works of Theodor Landscheidt. From what I have been able to learn, Landscheidt looks beyond the sun, at such things as the positions of the giant planets and at their influence on the center of mass of the entire solar system. If I remember correctly he also concerns himself with the position of the sun in the plane of the galaxy.

    Anyone who even mentions Landscheidt's name apparently gets held up for ridicule, for supporting ideas that are mere astrology.

    Is anyone here an expert on mechanics? I mean the stuff you learn by studying Goldstein or Lanczos, not taking apart your car's engine.

    Oh, and if you are not any sort of expert, this educational film might be of help: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyzAO...
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 9 months ago
      Well the solar position in precession is also discussed in Graham Hancocks work and he also brings up some of the other impacts on the environment as well. Issues seem to have been documented in stone going back thousands of years.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 6 years, 9 months ago
    Owl here, You know my theme "Plant more Trees"! I would drag all the world leaders out of this latest Summit meeting hand them a shovel and a tree sapling saying: go plant! If they don't take their shovel and hit hem over the head with it. I'm so tired that all they is yap their flap but are so afraid to get their hands dirty in the dirt. Oh yea, the only dirt they know is in their corrupt governments.
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  • Posted by andrewph 6 years, 9 months ago
    I was reading about the "little ice age" some years ago. This was about 1350-1850~. The book, which I can't remember the title, was talking about the Black Death, US revolution, glacier changes (advances/retreats) and the reformation of the Protestant/catholic Christian churches. This ~500 year period had the Thames freezing, massive die-offs of animals and people as well as social changes. The point was made that the sunspot solar cycle was at an observed 1000 year low and hasn't been repeated since. All of this is obvious conjecture because records haven't been kept accurately for the lifetime of the planet, but we have climate and solar data going back about 2000 years plus the ice cores and ground cores going back about 200,000 years give or take. Most people I have chatted with on college campuses buy the climate change position hook, line, and sinker. When I chat with older non college age folks, they have a more skeptical view. Oh well. Someone will finally figure it out, whether they are human, fish, or insect. Given all the extinction events, I'm hoping it's human, before the fish or insects take over...
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 9 months ago
      I believe you are covering the Maunder Minimum:

      The Maunder Minimum, also known as the "prolonged sunspot minimum", is the name used for the period starting in about 1645 and continuing to about 1715 when sunspots became exceedingly rare, as noted by solar observers of the time.

      The term was introduced after John A. Eddy[1] published a landmark 1976 paper in Science.[2] Astronomers before Eddy had also named the period after the solar astronomers Annie Russell Maunder (1868–1947) and E. Walter Maunder (1851–1928), who studied how sunspot latitudes changed with time.[3] The period which the husband and wife team examined included the second half of the 17th century.

      Two papers were published in Edward Maunder's name in 1890[4] and 1894,[5] and he cited earlier papers written by Gustav Spörer.[6] Because Annie Maunder had not received a university degree (due to restrictions at the time), her contribution was not then publicly recognized.[7]

      Spörer noted that, during a 28-year period (1672–1699) within the Maunder Minimum, observations revealed fewer than 50 sunspots. This contrasts with the typical 40,000–50,000 sunspots seen in modern times.[8]

      Like the Dalton Minimum and Spörer Minimum, the Maunder Minimum coincided with a period of lower-than-average European temperatures.

      Ref:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maunder...
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  • Posted by Lucky 6 years, 9 months ago
    Sunspot activity is a major influence on global temperature.

    Changes in sunspot activity go with changes in the amount and wavelength of radiation emitted by the sun.
    The atmosphere of our planet contains water vapor.
    Increased radiation in certain wavelengths causes water vapor to condense into clouds.
    Clouds reflect more heat than does a clear atmosphere so the planet cools.
    Heat not reflected reaches the surface and dissipates more slowly as cloud cover is a
    physical barrier to convection.
    More clouds thus cause lower temperature on the planet, and the daily temperature range is lower.

    ( All this is standard uncontroversial long standing stuff in meteorology and
    makes no recourse to fallacious so-called 'greenhouse effects'. )
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 9 months ago
    I am not at all knowledgeable about how sunspots affect climate. They definitely affect radio propagation. My first sunspot peak was in '89. I thought they would all be like that. I worked DX on 10m (28MHz) well into the night. 2000 wasn't as intense. 2011 was even less so. I moved and haven't put an antenna since 2011. I should put one up, maybe something for low frequencies, which propagate slight better (according to folklore) in low sunspot times.

    Regarding the point about deforestation, I'm unclear how much it affects the carbon cycle because I imagine much of the carbon captured gets released eventually. Intuitively, though, it's a doubly whammy of increasingly global warming and hasting the current mass-extinction event. I would guess the decreased bio-diversity would be more costly than its contribution to climate change, but that's a wild guess.
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    • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 6 years, 9 months ago
      Flaring sunspots in our direction have a tendency to block cosmic radiation, so we have less clouding that affords heat transfer.

      Here is an interesting point CG; The sun is still producing sunspots and they still flair...just not in our direction. The position of Jupiter and Saturn seem to play a role in this cycle, perhaps together, providing a stronger electromagnetic pull upon the sun than our relationship with the sun.
      I am thinking that these events are instigated by an occultation of normal relationships or the addition of a new or re-occurring cyclical relationships as we make our way around the Milky way in procession. It's likely that because everything is moving at different rates dependent upon position in the galaxy our system aligns with different entities from time to time.
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    • Posted by $ 6 years, 9 months ago
      I am not sure what the impact is, Dob's articles point to something where coronal mass ejections cause LESS cosmic ray activity and solar minimum seems to allow for more. However, I would say that there seems to be some connection here that the climate dudes were maybe not caring about, since it wasn't in their "area".
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 9 months ago
        It seems like it should be part of their area since the sun powers everything on earth. I'm sure someone studies this.

        I actually do not even understand the relationship between cosmic rays, solar output, and sunspots. I just know sunspots have a huge effect on radio propagation. 10 meters easily supports worldwide communication during a sunspot peaks and is for local communication only during the troughs.
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        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 6 years, 9 months ago
          The relationship is still controversial. Svensmark's hypothesis is that cosmic rays encourage cloud formation. That's not very controversial, we' looked at them in 'cloud chambers'. A few years back there was a study at Cern which confirmed it. They had to dance around the announcement for fear of attracting the ire of the global warming thought police.

          The solar wind blocks cosmic rays, less solar activity, less solar wind, more cosmic rays. If the hypothesis is correct, that makes more clouds, increasing reflectivity. Makes for cooler planet -- except possibly at the poles which would warm because clouds are less reflective than snow.

          He even speculates that the orbit of the solar system around the galaxy causes it to dip above and below the galactic plane and as we pass through the plane we get increased cosmic rays and periodic ice ages. Very speculative but interesting. I haven't seen any good theories as to why we have periodic ice ages.
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          • Posted by $ 6 years, 9 months ago
            The procession of the equinox is a result of the movement of the earth in the galactic plane and ties in with many, many ancient sites, and societies. The temples placed in many places on the earth thousands of years ago were usually aligned with various points at specific times of the year to allow for calendar keeping and knowing when the climate would change. The Maya were incredibly well versed in their science and calendar. IT does all tie together over a long time of various cultures. So where did all that come from is the question.
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 6 years, 9 months ago
            "They had to dance around the announcement for fear of attracting the ire of the global warming thought police."
            Is science really that politicized? Is there some other political "police" who represent everyone who wants to live an industrial lifestyle and wishes the anthropogenic portion of global warming were insignificant or zero? Do you suspect there is similar politics in other areas, like studying the merits of aggressively treating high cholesterol and high blood pressure. It would hurt drug companies if it were found a third factor causes those conditions so just treating the symptom has less effect. Am I naive to think most scientists would love to find something that upends the current understanding?

            "more clouds, increasing reflectivity. Makes for cooler planet "
            I thought the increased albedo was offset by decreased radiational cooling at night, so more clouds meant a step closer to Venus-like conditions.

            " I haven't seen any good theories as to why we have periodic ice ages."
            That's surprising. I thought it was because precession changed the phase difference between the summer solstice in the hemisphere with most land mass (currently the Northern) and the earth's orbit's perigee. I figured that was simplistic but the basically the primary cause. If scientists don't have a good model for the ice ages or the glacial maxima/minima with the current ice age, that's surprising.
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            • Posted by $ 6 years, 9 months ago
              For the last, it would seem precession does play a part, if just because it does change the angle of sun exposure over time. As far as clouds go, that does seem somewhat off, as they do restrict radiational cooling, but also reflect (the albedo effect) sunlight, but as someone pointed out, in a specific bandwidth. The Venus theory also has seen some changes, as I saw some research that blamed it's condition not on it's CO2 content, but on it's inability to produce O2 enough to offset it, and they pointed to the fact that organic life was the only thing that saved earth from a similar peril. Bottom line I think is that there is such a complex relationship between all the factors, that one thing may tip the scales in one direction or another, like the proverbial horseshoe nail.
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