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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 7 years ago
    President Trump did NOT push a button and launch 59 cruise missiles into Syria. He did NOT issue an illegal order to do so.

    The men and women who actually carried out the President's orders have a solemn duty to ensure that those orders are neither illegal or un-Constitutional. President Trump did not do this without the support of his people.

    The debate over this action will continue forever, but what is done is done and it appears that the majority of this country agrees with the President's actions.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years ago
    Judge Nap. is probably right. (He usually is). His explanation makes more sense than "our" explanation. Either way, it's not the Generals who suffer. To many of them, people are merely dots on a map. But it sure feels good to kick ass after 8 years of Obama.
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  • Posted by mminnick 7 years ago
    I disagree with CircuitGuy and the good Judge. There are time that one must act. This was one of those times. It is not the first time that Asad used chemicals on non-combatants. There is at least one other confirmed time, most like two other times. If Asad will use Saran on his own people, even if they are considered rebels, he would not hesitate to use it on troops of another nation. I'm not talking about the US I'm talking about Turkey. If he uses Saran on Turkish troops Turkey might claim their right to assistance fro NATO. That really puts us in a very tight spot. War or disavowing an ally. There is the NATO treaty, and as the good judge points out, it must be followed since it is the law of the land and supreme, just like the Constitution.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years ago
      First, Andrew Napolitano cited the UN Charter not the NATO treaty. He wrote: "The U.N. Charter limits member nations' use of military force to defensive responses to actual attacks, pre-emptive strikes prior to nearly certain attacks and correctives pursuant to U.N. consent or pursuant to another treaty obligating military force to help an ally."

      Your point about Turkey and NATO, however, is important. Consider Washington's Farewell Address.
      http://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_centu... (The Avalon Project of Yale Law School is a tremendous treasury of historical documents for anyone interested in constitutional law.) Washington warned against getting involved in Europe's wars. Regarding Turkey, the warning applies because we were forced between Turkey and Greece several times, most dramatically over Cyrus. The intention of NATO was to protect Western Europe from a Russian invasion. It was never intended to jump in on every border war, which is what any conflict involving Turkey in Syria would be.

      In particular, the map of the Middle East - Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Iraq, Saudia Arabia and the Gulf emirates, all of that - was carved arbitrarily from the Ottoman Empire as their price for being on the losing side of World War I. France took its share (Syria, Lebanon); England got its (oil fueling stations for its fleet). There is no right and wrong, except as it was all wrong. Where in Iraq and all of that do you find Kurdistan? Why did the Kurds not get their own country? I mean, just arbitrarily ... as the whole thing was arbitrary ...

      And the USA has been in the middle of it all, not just in any rational support for Israel, but meddling in the push-and-shove of the Middle East: selling arms to Iraq to fight Iran; then selling arms to Iran...

      Look at a map. Was there any reason that Kuwait should not have been absorbed by Iraq? No one in Kuwait stayed to fight. One guy, a colonel with a jet fighter, put up a fight. The rest of the royal family fled because they knew that no one would fight for Kuwait. That is not what happened when Nazi Germany threatened Switzerland. But the Swiss are invested in Switzerland, literally. No one in Kuwait was invested in Kuwait because Kuwait was never really a nation with a history.

      That message was clear to the Saudis. So, they hired the USA to invade Kuwait, push out Iraq, and protect Saudi Arabia. Our infidel presence in the home of Islam iis what angered the Wahabbis and Ussama bin Ladin.

      And maybe they needed the wake up call to the 20th century, but there were many ways to achieve that without military intervention in a war that was none of our business. Saddam Hussein was not a threat to the United States.

      Moreover, to the conflict at hand, if we were to take sides in Syria, it should be with the government of Syria. What do you know about Dr. Bashar al-Assad or his father, the previous ruler, Hafez al-Assad?
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      • Posted by ewv 7 years ago
        The Saudis did not "hire the USA".
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        • Posted by $ TomB666 7 years ago
          There may be a bit of 'poetic license' in using that phrase, but it did sort of work out that way. ;-)
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          • Posted by ewv 7 years ago
            No, it didn't "sort of work out that way". It's an echo of misleading, snide leftist slogans. Foreign policy should be analyzed and criticized without such nonsense.
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            • Posted by $ 7 years ago
              Saudi Arabia was wholly incapable of defending itself because vast majority of the people who live there - those not in the al-Saud family - have no investment in the nation. You and I are invested in the USA as an idea. The people who live in Saudi Arabia have no equivalent cultural heritage. For all of the pilgrims who come to Mecca, does anyone sing about the "land of the pilgrim's pride"?

              Do you believe that the USA sought treaties with Kuwait and Saudi Arabia to allow us to establish bases there from which to attack an evil dictator possessing weapons of mass destruction who was threatening our safety?

              Or do you believe something else entirely?
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              • Posted by ewv 7 years ago
                Saudia Arabia did not hire the US military. There were many foreign policy reasons for US involvement, whether or not you agree with them.
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                • Posted by $ 7 years ago
                  "You have a right to your own opinion. You do not have a right to your own facts." - Daniel Patrick Moynihan.

                  Gulf War's Cost to Arabs Estimated at $620 Billion - http://NYTimes.com
                  http://www.nytimes.com/1992/09/08/.........
                  Sep 8, 1992 - Direct logistical support for the 600,000 American and allied troops in Saudi Arabia between August 1990 and March 1991, plus the rush to build military airstrips and camps, cost another $51 billion, which was paid largely by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

                  Donald Trump says Kuwait never paid U.S. back for ousting Saddam ...
                  http://www.politifact.com/truth-o.../...
                  Apr 27, 2011 - Trump was referring to the Persian Gulf War in 1991, when a U.S.-led ... Saudi Arabia: $16.8 billion pledged, $12.0 billion paid in cash, $4.0 ...

                  Who paid for 1991 Iraq Kuwait invasion war while US “made” 20 ...
                  https://1muslimnation.wordpress.com/.......
                  Oct 12, 2006 - Bismillah, Arguably the second Gulf war is now over. As the ... 75% of the war budget was spent by Arab country's Kuwait and Saudi Arabia.

                  Did you know the Gulf War was paid for by Saudi Arabia and Kuwait ...
                  http://www.ronpaulforums.com › Forums › News & Current Events › U.S. Political News
                  Dec 3, 2010 - 18 posts - ‎14 authors
                  I was watching a documentary on PBS that mentioned in passing something I was totally unaware of - the US asked for and got payment for the ...

                  Gulf War Fast Facts - http://CNN.com
                  http://www.cnn.com/2013/09/15/world/m...
                  Aug 2, 2016 - The U.S. Department of Defense has estimated the cost of the Gulf War at $61 billion. Kuwait, Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states covered $36 billion.
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                  • Posted by ewv 7 years ago
                    Citing leftist conspiracies picked up by Ron Paul about how much they claim Saudia Arabia paid the US does not mean that we were "hired". Leading with a boring cliche as an alleged conclusion does not help. Please have some common sense.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years ago
      "If Asad will use Saran on his own people, even if they are considered rebels, he would not hesitate to use it on troops of another nation."

      "A country that violates the rights of its own citizens, will not respect the rights of its neighbors. Those who do not recognize individual rights, will not recognize the rights of nations: a nation is only a number of individuals." -- Ayn Rand, "The Roots of War"
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years ago
    I imagine being president. I don't believe in the US maintaining a massive global empire to police the world. I believe policing the world is a thankless job. When you step up and take action in any endeavor, you're bound to make mistakes, and it's easy for people not taking action to play Monday morning quarterback. In war, you help one side in a fight only to discover once they defeat our common enemy, they don't have much in common with us. Since US has been on top since WWII, they naturally view us with suspicion and wrongly suspect our success comes through our global empire controlling the world's wealth. Local politicians corroborate this by scapegoating us for things that are really their fault.

    So for all these reasons I'm a so-called "isolationist" imagining being POTUS. The evidence strongly suggests the Syrian gov't used chemical weapons on rebels, killing non-combatants, some children. The chairman of the joint chiefs gives me options of various levels response. I carry on about my "isolationist" philosophy and asking why are they saying "what's American going to do?" instead of "what's the EU or China going to do?"
    The chairman knows way more about this than I do. He's studied the Roman Empire, Clausewitz, the details on how the world wars played out, and how the Cold War shaped the modern world. He politely and matter-of-factly says, I would be happy to discuss geopolitical philosophy. You have good points about how we shouldn't be the only ones policing the world. Regardless of how it should be, we are the only ones with a massive military capable of responding. Failing to respond might be seen as a green light for future chemical weapons attacks. Do you want our military forces to respond in any way?

    It might be hard to say no. I think I would ask about the moderate, proportional response that in recent history the US would use to send a message/warning that might save future lives; and I might end up going that route.

    I suspect some scenario like this is what motivated President Trump to attack Syria. If so, I sympathize and might have done the same thing.

    The conspiracy-theory explanations (in other articles, not this one) of the security establishment conspiring to discredit the president ring completely false to me. I lean toward accepting things at face value: The Syrian gov't really did use chemical weapons. They used them b/c they work so well. They rationalized that dying from chemical weapons isn't much worse than dying from bullets or bombs. President Trump really is generally against intervening in foreign conflicts and really was moved to do something in response to children hurt or killed by the attack.

    So I agree with Judge Napolitano. It's easier to do what I think is the right thing, i.e. not intervene, with the responsibility is not resting on your shoulders.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years ago
      In your reasons for being "isolationist" rather than "world policeman" you left out that there is no justification for the US government to police the whole world. Our military is properly for the our national interest of protecting our own country, and there is no justification for any president to do anything else, including under treaties. It doesn't matter whether others think that anything is a "thankless job", "play Monday morning quarterback", or view us with "suspicion".

      Napolitano is wrong in asserting that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" and "Syria is not a threat to the U.S., nor is it likely to become one". The Syrian government is not our friend, and easily deliverable weapons of mass destruction are a threat to everyone, especially from maniac dictators.

      What we should do about it depends on an objective military assessment of what can be done and what is most effective in countering the overall threat, not a "principle" to bomb everything in sight perceived to be a threat.

      Everyone should be appalled at the Syrian gassing of innocent civilians -- with or without seeing videos of children writhing under the affects of nerve gas. Anyone who wants to has a right to obstruct or stop that in any way he can, but it is not a justification for the US military to go off on an emotional mission. The threat of gassing cities in the US is a justification for it to bomb the regime that did it.

      Trump emotionally appealed to "The chiiiilduuun" because he is a liberal, emotional thinker without objective principles. He tends to say what he thinks and feels as it shifts in the wind and in accordance with whatever he heard last, not rationalize his actions with propaganda contrary to his motives. But it is unlikely that that is what drove the military advice given to him regarding bombing Syria for its chemical attack.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years ago
    Like it or not, the civilized world has for some centuries looked to the most powerful regime to punish cruelty. For the last few centuries that regime was the British Empire, until WW II. The U.S. inherited the superpower mantle since then, and have been drawn into the "morality police" role. Obama tried to ignore the job, and Trump expressed a neo-isolationist view, but neither have been entirely successful backing out of the job. When Trump ordered the bombing of Syria, Europe, most Middle East countries, and most Pacific nations said they were glad to have America back. We seem to be the victim of type casting.
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  • Posted by zonoz 7 years ago
    I just don't understand how Trump following up on what our former POTUS threatened to do is illegal. Had it been illegal when POTUS 44 threatened the very same action I would think there would have been an outcry then about its' illegality. But none was heard, just as nothing was said when 44 banned immigrants from certain countries but when Trump did the exact same thing people were outraged st his illegal action. Isn't what's good for the goose just as good for the gander?

    Besides, who really cares if what WE, the USA did in blowing them to hell WAS possibly illegal? It was done in an effort to prevent the absolutely inhumane use of nerve gas that had been prohibited for over 90 years.

    If uou were to come upon the scene of a young child being raped and after all non lethal efforts to stop the rapist failed, would any one of us not be able to kill the offender if the means were available? Even though murder is illegal, to save a defenseless child from further horror?
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  • Posted by STEVEDUNN46 7 years ago
    Why did we interfere in a civil war in a country that had an established government? Assad would have put down the revolution quickly without our interference. Much suffering wo uh ld have been avoided. Just like our government would put down an armed insurrection. He'll, they murdered a farmer over grazing and irrigration rights.
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    • Posted by ewv 7 years ago
      Anyone has a right to "interfere" with an "established" dictatorship. A maniac using nerve gas is a threat to everyone, creating an obligation to "interfere" in self defense against the threat.
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      • Posted by $ 7 years ago
        Objective justice demands that you find the maniac who actually is using the nerve gas, i.e., the soldier(s) and airman (men) who are committing the acts.

        It is quite likely that Bashar al-Assad is a prisoner in his own castle and the military is running the government. But even so, guilt falls to the person who acts, not to the "ruler" who gives the "orders."

        I hope that you are not going to skate on the thin ice of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and say, "If you do not resist your evil government, then I am going to kill you to protect myself." Because that would be not merely illogical, but bizarre. Ultimately, it would come down to someone holier than thou demanding to know what thou hast done to prevent his oppression, making of thee thy brother's keeper.
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        • Posted by ewv 7 years ago
          The dictator of Syria is in charge and the bombs hit the airfield where the chemical weapons were kept.

          "Arguments" based on what you "hope" I do "not" say and where I do "not skate" are worse than bizarre.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years ago
    We have cultures that will gas kids. Amazing...

    Heck - I understand there's horrific footage of us droning kids. (shaking my head...)
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