Ayn's characters never challenged whats wrong

Posted by EngineerJ 7 years, 7 months ago to The Gulch: General
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She told us what would happen but the characters never publically challenged what was happening.


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  • Posted by JustinLesniewski 7 years, 7 months ago
    "One must speak up in situations where silence can objectively be taken to mean agreement with or sanction of evil. When one deals with irrational persons, where argument is futile, a mere 'I don’t agree with you' is sufficient to negate any implication of moral sanction." - Ayn Rand

    Their disappearances made it so their silence wasn't taken as agreement. Plus, John Galt's speech was him speaking up on all of their behalf.
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    • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
      The problem is to identify the irrational people and show the rational ones what they are doing, not just to say I do not agree.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
        But THEY DON'T CARE. They're getting their needs met without any effort and that's all they care about. Until they're left to their own means, and have something they've EARNED taken from them to give to someone else, they won't get it.
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        • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
          We are letting our schools teach them this dribble. We let our politicians give them everything with no strings attached. I believe there are enough people out there that want to make a difference but we do not have the leaders. (I am not leader material!)
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          • Posted by khalling 7 years, 7 months ago
            Asking the questions are important. More and more are pulling their children from public education every year. I grew up in the 70s. My parents were teachers. Who home schooled? nobody! now close to 5% of US children are homeschooled and that number grows every year.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
    When Hank was in court he gave a "if you wish to seize my property then call it what it is, and bring guns" speech. Was that NOT publicly challenging what was wrong?
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    • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
      That was a challenge but it did not explain to the masses why it was wrong. It did nothing to get the average person behind him. It did nothing to explain the cause and effect of what was going on.
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      • Posted by iroseland 7 years, 7 months ago
        lets keep in mind that the "people" were on HR's side during the trial and the more he spoke the more they liked what he had to say. It also happens during Dagney's radio confession. But, lets look closely at the character of the strikers. None of them were converts, all of them were already practicing objectivism then John Galt gave them the words to identify what they were doing. Throughout the book Dagny and Hank spend plenty of time leading the horses to water. By and large most of them refuse to drink at all. With of course the notable exception of Tony. The thing is that leading the horses to water was not their job. Hank made steel, and Reardon metal, and mined iron ore and copper and owned a toll manufacturing business and was doing engineering. While Dagney was a builder and runner of railroads. They were already doing the best part they could to save the world by doing the things they were already very good at. We should not expect them to also argue philosophy with fools. In the meantime, I often find myself wondering if the straw the broke the camles back was Hanks check to "Friends of Global Progress"?
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        • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
          The question is should they argue philosophy at all. Most of our problems are coming down to the lack of connecting the fundamental dots! How do you eat an elephant - one bite at a time. That is connecting two simple dots, but what about the dot that mentions the pride of Lyons coming to reclaim their prize. It is the dots that no one seems to connect that are causing the problems. Philosophy is in the eye of the beholder, math and science can put a definite description on the problem. Look at my comment on Food Stamps in these discussions.

          There are many more topics that can be discussed based on math, science, and connecting all the dots to show the facts of what is happening.
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          • Posted by iroseland 7 years, 7 months ago
            The problem is that there is a significant portion of the population that would / do pretend there are no dots or connections. They live in the world of A is Z instead of being willing to admit the fact that A is A. We get pushed into philosophy because we first need to teach / show people the importance of recognizing that A is A once they can and are willing to do that on their own then their philosophical foundation is repaired and they will start to see things are they are instead of seeing things how they would like them to be. Once they have accomplished this then they will not need to be convinced that the truth is true as they will be able to see that themselves.
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            • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
              If our schools are not teaching facts and connecting the dots and are politicians and media aren't either, how are they to understand A=A. How are they to understand connecting the dots?
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                Why do you think the school aren't teaching this? THE GOVERNMENT RUNS THEM. And parents don't get involved enough and the parents don't know what A=A is either OR that there are dots to be connected. The little kids stand and repeat the Pledge every morning and have NO idea what the hell it even means...when they do get a lesson about it is it's all about how "fair" our government makes everything for EVERYone. The are not taught about individual freedoms and capitalism or what a republic is. And the Constitution? What's that? I wonder if the second amendment is even mentioned EVER in a public school anymore let alone explained why it is so important to a freedom. If you want your kids taught the truth and what's important, home school. And skip over the week long "recycle" to save us all crap.
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                • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                  We need to find some way to revitalize the Forth Estate. That was what they were supposed to do, keep the spotlight on the things that the government is doing wrong. Not everyone has time in their life to do all the little things necessary.
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                    "Not everyone has time in their life to do all the little things necessary." I see these as huge things, not little things. If you don't make them a priority who will?
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                    • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                      Connect the dots. It may be a huge thing but if everyone made it that much of a priority who would take care of the other things. For example, my neighbor has a daughter that went into anaphylactic shock and has brain damage. What is her top priority? I do not think school are at the moment.
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                      • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                        Her top priority is probably her daughter's health and future. It all ties in and is all part of the same puzzle. My same main concerns are my kids, grandkids and their futures. I have a son that is insulin dependent...which means he's dependent on getting good healthcare and many prescriptions. The future for him and my grandson scares the crap out of me with the path we are on... Guess what my top priority is....trying to change the path and assuring that he will have what he needs and to keep their freedoms in the process. In other words...my priorities are no different than your neighbor's. Schools play a large part in this equation.
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                        • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                          School is not a problem for my neighbor, they are not even sure she can communicate. My point is that we can not just focus on one point, we have to do something to get pressure on many points at one time. An individual can not do that, the media is in the best position but we need to get them to do their job!
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                          • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                            What others' students are taught can have a direct affect on your neighbor and her daughter's future....so yes, what is taught in school is important for us all who believe in individualism. Even if all the reporters were doing their job and hitting all the points, would that be enough to wake up the entitled sheep? I think not. Shutting off their welfare and snap card would do it though...but then that power to decide and initiate that goes back to Washington and votes. In order for people to vote appropriately the entire philosophy in this country has to change...back to what it was supposed to be originally. (And there comes the history lessons...which lands us back in schools.) VOILA!
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                            • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                              Back 2-300 years ago a farmer out in the wide open spaces learned he had to plant his crop to grow food to eat. He learned he need to put aside some of the grain to plant next year. He learned that he had to portion out his harvest to last until the next crop and have some extra for emergency.
                              Not everything is taught in schools and the philosophy they teach did not come until they had enough food to eat and time to sit down and consider it.
                              Did you learn everything you know in school or did you learn a lot after you left. School is not the end-all of education!
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                              • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                                I know that! I work in a school! Which is why I'm ALL for home schooling, or private schooling. Get the gov out! They're indoctrination tanks and the teacher just "do what they're told". (Do we want to switch gears and talk about public sector unions and that whole farce?)
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                                • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                                  P.S. The farmers HAD a philosophy...the schools killed it. Work for what you consume. Be responsible for you and yours. Don't take what isn't yours. Be peaceful, but fight force with force. Have an appreciation for what you've accomplished. :)
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                                  • johnrobert2 replied 7 years, 7 months ago
      • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
        I disagree. (Have you read the book or are you basing this on the movie only?) In order for the "average person" to get on board with reality/logic they first HAVE TO LISTEN. THAT is their biggest problem. Also, their complete lack of thirst for knowledge where their own lives are concerned. They'd rather wear ear plugs and blinders and pretend their way through life. That only works for so long and only worsens the smack of reality once they can't avoid it any longer.
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        • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
          I have read the book and watched the movie. The people are listening, the problem is what they are being told by the politicians and the media. On Fox News, a person said that every dollar of Food Stamps puts a dollar in the economy. No one challenged this statement. First the dollar was taken from the economy and diminished going through the governments hands. Then it was used to buy food that was already in the economy. And upon being eaten was entirely destroyed. Where were they to get the facts! This is supposedly the Fourth Estate that is to hold the Governments feet to the fire!
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
            Again I say they lack the thirst of knowledge...which will lead to the truth. If something someone says, on the news or where ever else, doesn't quite make sense then we/they need to look further. Research...teach yourself...study some history etc. Americans have become lazy and lack any attention span. They want to be spoon fed opinions so they don't have to do the work themselves. It's despicable. Anyone who trusts the gov or most of what the media spews has a mental illness. I don't know who you hang around with, but I'm in a building every day with about 100 so called educated people..and NO one is talking about any current events, politics, loss of freedoms etc etc. (Okay...2 of us are but it's mostly just me.) And it's getting old old old. Where are they to get the fact? Take a look around and then read some history...the Constitution, about the founding fathers...previous dictators... we've gotten where we are today by walking down the same paths that have been walked before. Not to mention that a lot of people are used to the collective taking care of their every need and thought...we've lost independent thought and initiative...(which, personally, I think is a result of having no real fear of failure or of going hungry.)
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            • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
              If all people have to eat is sand they will eat sand. We need to find a way to present the knowledge in a way they will understand and accept it.
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                You can't MAKE people listen OR understand what they don't want to listen to. What ideas do you have?
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                • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                  First, how do you know they don't want to listen. Some don't but I am sure there are many that do.

                  As I have just posted to other comments, people need to explain the fundamentals of the problems with math, science and connecting all the dots.

                  I have commented today on Food Stamps with many of the dots that those who say the put money into the economy have ignored. How many of those with the bully pulpit have done this?

                  Math, science and connecting all the dots for people can explain to them many things. Such as:

                  Why Stimulus will not work.
                  How the Government has stolen half of the Social Security trust fund.
                  The fact that no government employee pays REAL taxes.
                  How to raise 1 trillion in IRS TAX revenue without hurting the economy.
                  How the political alchemists are continually trying to do things that are impossible such as Perpetual Motion and turning lead into gold.

                  I have not heard anyone explain these things, the best I have heard is "I HAVE A PLAN!"
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                    Who have you talked to that listened? I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I won't stop trying to talk to people and to get them to listen, BUT so far I can't find anyone who acts more than superficially interested...temporarily. Rozar has a great post right now with some good conversation starters that I will try. Sorry if my over whelming frustration of dealing with the brain washed shows. :(
                    You have good points about WHY don't those who have a spot at the podium don't spell out the obvious and what needs to be done...probably vote related...which goes right back to the root of the problem. Corruption.
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                    • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                      I talked to my US Congressman. His aids understood what I was saying and agreed. He Didn't.
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                      • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                        That might be considered preaching to the choir though. They're up to speed so to speak... what I wanted to know is what lay person have you gotten to listen?....I'll give you 2 extra points if they asked questions with interest.
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                        • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                          One is my son who has an MBA and he told me that he was taught that food stamps put money into the economy. We went around on that for awhile but I finally convinced him using the mathematical facts. Also, I had several people discuss the fact that no government employee pays real taxes after a letter to the editor was published.
                          I take walks around my neighborhood and there are a couple of people that have discussed many of these points and agreed with the arguments.
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                          • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                            I have people agree with my spouts regularly...I'm not sure that counts really. It does in the way that it's hopefully planting a seed BUT the point I was really trying to make is I very rarely have anyone ask questions that further the conversation. The conversations that need to be had are vast and historic...we're under an umbrella of corruptions that cross over many areas. I had someone call me the other day asking what I thought about Syria because she has a son in law in the middle east working right now and she's worried about him....which just hammers home my feeling (oh whoa whoa whoa whoa) that people only take notice when it slaps them in the face...and then they only pay attention to that ONE area of interest and won't look at the big puzzle picture looming ahead. Swallowing this in small doses is a start, but it won't do in the long run if they don't expand.
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  • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
    Good point, the problem is that he hired Mouch but did not give him any direction to start with nor did he keep an eye on what he was doing.
    These are successful people that have the money to pay people to do their talking. If they are successful, they direct their business but do not direct their spokes people. If you want the support of the people you have to explain in their terms what is happening.
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    • Posted by $ brewer37 7 years, 7 months ago
      The support or lack of support should be in the form of sales. There should be no need for the general population to have warm fuzzy feelings for you, unless it is by their will that you are allowed to exist. Since the hero characters disagree with the 'allowed to exist' premise, they just do their best to ignore the 'pull' currency (popular sentiment).
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      • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
        Sales are important to the company. The problem is that people do not understand how sales affect the economy. They look at the dollars of the sale being all profit to the company. They do not connect the dots to the fact that they provide jobs to people other than the owners. Those sales also pay the taxes of the people that work for the company. Currently everyone thinks every transaction has only two parts and do not connect all the dots involved.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 7 months ago
      Yes. That was my problem too. These characters were smart people, but they're completely stymied when it comes to politics. It was hard to believe they could get as far as they did without being able to deal with people they didn't agree with.
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    • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 7 years, 7 months ago
      He hired Mouch with the expectation that Mouch would do what he was paid to do, and said he would do, represent him. The underhanded dealings of Mouch are the same as what we get from our 'employees', those we elect and pay to represent us. Their motives are usually hidden from our scrutiny and we never know how we're getting screwed until it happens.
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      • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
        He was paid to represent him but I do not remember any real specifics. When you start a company to build widgets, you have some model or plan as to what it is to be. You don't just say go build a widget and not specify what it looks like or what you expect. And you also keep checking to see that your vision is being produced.
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        • Posted by $ brewer37 7 years, 7 months ago
          If HR hired someone to build a widget, he would have made sure it was the best he could get for what he was paying.
          He ignored Mouch because to pay any attention to Mouch would be to embrace the premise that HR needed support from the government to exist. He did not need them.
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          • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
            He may have been the best HR could have gotten but there was no check that he understood what the widget was to look like. As to HR needing the support of the Government, the widget was to keep the Government out of the way not ask for support.
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  • Posted by khalling 7 years, 7 months ago
    engineer, have you read the book?
    It is true that her heroes did not engage in the political realm. It's true in real life. People are busy producing, they don't have time to get involved in politics. Being in politics and effecting change, is hard to also spend time on a for profit business that isn't involved with that. It's only when people take a step back from their business/work pursuits, can they justify the time and talent. Or make the politics pay. One or the other. In Rand's case, she found a way to successfully make developing a philosophy pay. She was very clear this is a battle of ideas.
    *SPOILER*
    JG and HR and DT were not in the media business nor in politics. Their ability to speak out was limited probably more so when AS was written than today.
    Remember what happens when HR hires Mouch to look after his political interests?
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  • Posted by $ johnrobert2 7 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Aha! I found it.
    Now, back to my point. Does 'fight with force with force' mean preemptive action, if needed? In "Virtue"(blast, I can't find the reference) AR (or the other fellow) was talking about dealing with thugs and other looters in a reactive manner. Is that the most efficacious method of survival? By the time you can react, you may be overrun by them and lost your chance for survival.
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    • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
      A scene from the walking dead comes to mind....when the new comers show up at the prison and one of them showed his cards in some way that he was just waiting for an opportunity to slay them...the sheriff did not miss this queue and didn't hesitate to machete him right then and there. Threat gone. Also when Carl was approached by a teenager in the woods with a gun and Carl said, "Drop the gun!" and instead of dropping the gun the teenager acted like he was going to hand Carl the gun and Carl shot him and said, "I said to drop it." There are times when you don't hesitate once intent has been shown even if they're not charging you....yet.
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    • Posted by khalling 7 years, 7 months ago
      the threat of force constitutes force.

      "To interpose the threat of physical destruction between a man and his perception of reality, is to negate and paralyze his means of survival; to force him to act against his own judgment, is like forcing him to act against his own sight. Whoever, to whatever purpose or extent, initiates the use of force, is a killer acting on the premise of death in a manner wider than murder: the premise of destroying man’s capacity to live.
      Do not open your mouth to tell me that your mind has convinced you of your right to force my mind. Force and mind are opposites; morality ends where a gun begins. When you declare that men are irrational animals and propose to treat them as such, you define thereby your own character and can no longer claim the sanction of reason—as no advocate of contradictions can claim it. There can be no “right” to destroy the source of rights, the only means of judging right and wrong: the mind.
      To force a man to drop his own mind and to accept your will as a substitute, with a gun in place of a syllogism, with terror in place of proof, and death as the final argument—is to attempt to exist in defiance of reality. Reality demands of man that he act for his own rational interest; your gun demands of him that he act against it. Reality threatens man with death if he does not act on his rational judgment; you threaten him with death if he does. You place him in a world where the price of his life is the surrender of all the virtues required by life—and death by a process of gradual destruction is all that you and your system will achieve, when death is made to be the ruling power, the winning argument in a society of men.
      Be it a highwayman who confronts a traveler with the ultimatum: “Your money or your life,” or a politician who confronts a country with the ultimatum: “Your children’s education or your life,” the meaning of that ultimatum is: “Your mind or your life”—and neither is possible to man without the other." Galt's Speech

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  • Posted by Snoogoo 7 years, 7 months ago
    I think that you may have accidentally skipped over the 100+ pages of John Galt's speach in Atlas Shrugged
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    • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
      One time against many missed opportunities. It is just like the Republicans saying that they need to talk to the people more. They put together a team to analyze the problem. Their answer is not to explain more to the people but to find more ways to put the same stuff out to the people. In other words turn up the volume.
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  • Posted by $ richrobinson 7 years, 7 months ago
    In what way could they have done so that would have worked? When I read the book I felt that those who left for the Gulch had given up on changing the current government. That means they tried and the tide was still going against them. The only means left was to leave and allow the system to collapse.
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    • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
      Yes they had given up, but all I saw was as the going got tougher they worked harder to make their businesses work. They never tried to involve the people in understanding what was going wrong. A current example would be the stimulus the government has and wants to do. No one is explaining why it won't work to the people. Scientifically, the stimulus is a form of perpetual motion and there are many examples that can show this.
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      • Posted by khalling 7 years, 7 months ago
        no country can thrive in which it is possible for a competitor to gain an advantage through politics. "no one is explaining why it won't work to the people." Yes they are. People aren't listening. It's there if you want to hear it.
        http://www.mrctv.org/videos/home-depot-f...
        http://news.yahoo.com/video/carls-jr-ceo...
        http://www.againstcronycapitalism.org/20...
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        • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
          I looked at your postings. They are all talking about the symptoms of what is wrong. There is an underlying disease that is being ignored. Briefly lets take the Senator from Southern Nevada. He wants to take more tax money out of the economy. This takes more disposable income out of the economy which means there is less for things like trips to Las Vegas. Less trips to Las Vegas has caused the economic problems in Southern Nevada yet those people keep supporting him. Where is the problem?
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          • Posted by khalling 7 years, 7 months ago
            There is no soundbite alive that can get to the heart of philosophy. But here were three CEOs speaking to the killing regulations and laws. If you remember AS neither Dagny or Hank got it it til late in the game. The three who "got it" and their professor, it is an elite group. Most do not nor will ever probably. Rand says you start from where you are. Sam Adams says it only takes a small, pissed off minority to change the world. Luckily there are some who have a bully pulpit in the media. One that comes to mind is Judge Napolitano. In every op ed he writes, whenever he beginsan argument, he starts from the philosophy that is at the root of the Constitution. Every time.
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  • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And how do we accomplish this?
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    • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
      Instead of trying to attack individual points, what is need is to get the media involved so that there are people to cover multiple points at one time. Maybe a concerted effort to shame a few high profile people into connecting the dots!
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      • Posted by $ Tap2Golf 7 years, 7 months ago
        Tis true, but so much of the main-stream-media are very left slanted. That makes if very difficult, if not impossible, to get the word out to masses of folks. I agree with you that media could help.....very few are willing.
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        • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
          We need to get people in the media that will do something about it. We need to support them and pull our support from those who won't. I have pulled back from the TV media because they don't get it, even the supposedly conservative FOXNEWS.
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          • Posted by $ Tap2Golf 7 years, 7 months ago
            Are there some news sources you could share that are examples of what you would like to see more of? Have you checked out AlfonZo Rachel at PJTV.com? Is this what you are speaking of or is it more like The Objective Standard? Or, neither? I am with you and would like to have a trusted news source. TV would be the best as many people just don't take the time to surf the web looking for the truth.
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          • Posted by khalling 7 years, 7 months ago
            partly you are disappointed by FOX because they are conservative. Breitbart as well. Ron Paul has just started a channel:
            http://www.ronpaulchannel.com/subscribe-...
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            • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
              I am disappointed in FOX because no one there seems to be able to challenge the liberal statements with facts. I.E. the food stamp discussion I had here and others I have mentioned.
              All I have seen of Ron Paul is that he has a "PLAN"! People are hungry for facts of why things are going wrong!
              The Conservatives and the Republicans have become reactionary. They never challenge the liberals they just react to what they do. The Liberals know this and know what reaction they will get before they do anything!
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              • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                The people who are hungry for facts on why things are going wrong do their own research. That journey is guite lengthy and not simple to decipher. It has taken me years to get a handle on it and I feel like I've just broken the surface. There are no quick quips that can be spoken to give full enlightenment of all issues we face. As Americans it is our responsibility to keep a watchful eye on our appointed officials and what's happening in our country. They work for us..it's our job to watch them. If people pay little or no attention to what laws are being passed, and why, or ask questions, where does the blame really lie?
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              • Posted by Rocky_Road 7 years, 7 months ago
                FOX News did a segment on food stamp abuse, starring a surfing 'dude'. Major media never used the segment. We have discussed this show in length here....

                Don't blame the messenger for the lack of a concerned audience.
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                • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                  I did not see it. Did they show how a dollar comes out of the economy and less than a dollar hits the treasury. They then take that and some more to put into a food stamp dollar. They then give it to someone who buys a dollars worth of food that is already in the economy. Upon eating the food, they have destroyed more than the dollar they took out of the economy. Each dollar of food stamps destroys more than a dollar so how can the put a dollar into the economy as the liberals keep claiming?
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                  • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
                    Whenever you steal other people's earned money to give to another person it takes from the economy because the person your money is being given to isn't EARNING anything they are just TAKING YOURS. Filtering it through gov entities multiplies the devaluing even more. If you're not earning your way, your stealing your way off the back of others' labor. Period. They get away with convincing morons that it helps the economy because morons don't ask for explanations they just nod and say "Oh..of course..." because it suits them to justify taking from others and aren't concerned whether it's really the truth or not...no consequences in for them.
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                  • Posted by Rocky_Road 7 years, 7 months ago
                    That wasn't the approach.

                    What they showed was the abuse, and the lack of means testing that plagues the program. Any analysis of the return benefit for the taxes collected for the program, would have been 'not for prime time' in both interest, and/or too cerebral for the audience. Sad...but true.

                    The 'watch the shiny object' approach is the best way to get the most attention. You are not the average cable news watcher.

                    Sometimes you have to talk down to the masses....
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                    • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                      My son has an MBA and he told me they taught that food stamps puts money in the economy. I used a variation of what I said to explain it to him and he finally realized that when you connect all the dots, you can get a different picture.

                      Not all the people that are being mislead are the uneducated masses. There are a lot of smart people out there that haven't stopped to think everything through. I have surprised a lot of fairly smart people with things like this and the fact that no government employee pays REAL taxes or how the government has stolen half of the Social Security Trust Fund!
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
        These are great ideas...but how-do-we-accomplish-this? I'm not being snarky...I genuinely want to know the game plan.
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        • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
          It appears you have a circular game plan. We keep going back and forth with you giving the same questions.
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 7 years, 7 months ago
            I haven't gotten an answer yet. I seriously want to know the plan of implementation to get the media to hold the gov's feet to the fire. It's a great idea! Why is that being taken as circular.
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            • Posted by $ johnrobert2 7 years, 7 months ago
              The media will never do it because they are addicted to the concept of access to the 'inside story' and being the first on the block to know 'something'. They believe they have the right to shape opinion based on their perceived superiority of knowledge and rightness of cause. See Allen Drury's "Advise and Consent" series for an example of a media run amok.
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              • Posted by 7 years, 7 months ago
                I agree to a point. The question becomes, if there are a few among us that are in the media and we support them and give them ratings, will the others not take notice. No one appears willing to try something new (old).
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  • Posted by $ MikeMarotta 7 years, 7 months ago
    Engineer J, welcome to the Gulch. We have been building it since 1957. Look under the Culture category. Over 40 million copies of books by and about Ayn Rand are out there. The Big Five take the most numbers, but in all perhaps 50 different titles are available. See also "Ayn Rand's Influence Among Young People." Two different graphic novels are out there, one a straight biography in the "Women of Power" series and the other is "Anthem." Anthem is a routine assignment in middle school and high school along with 1984, Brave New World, Lord of the Flies, and Call of the Wild. You will not get everyone to agree to 100% of your own opinions, but they will -have- opinions.

    It is too easy to see the puffball of mass media or to get discouraged by the people around you. But they do not matter. As Francisco said about James, "People like him just clutter up the world." They make the laws because we let them. Letter to the editor, maybe... vote in a primary maybe... run for office (I have; and won)... but never really say it all, all at once, once and for all.

    John Galt's Speech does that. The rest of Objectivism explains the details. 40 million copies worth...

    And in addition, we have lifelong comrades in the Foundation for Economic Education, and the Mises Institute and the Cato Institute. You must know the TV series "The West Wing." We own all eight seasons. It is misunderstood among "conservatives." I won't defend it here and now, but, if you watch it enough, you will see REASON Magazine in the literature rack on the set.

    Elections? Elections are a scam.Voting was always problematic in Chicago and Texas. But electronic voting is like the old joke about the accountant who got hired because when asked "how much is two plus two" she answered "how much would you like it to be." Forget elections.
    Forget trying to convince people. The people who want to know, already do. You are just among the most recent. Welcome.
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