Unpopular Vote - Half Way To Eliminating the Electoral Cllege

Posted by $ bigjim 11 years, 6 months ago to Government
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I've been aware of this for awhile but did not realize it is being done so covertly. They even admit that “this is an effort to circumvent the cumbersome process of amending the Constitution."

National Popular Vote web site - http://www.nationalpopularvote.com/
They refer to it as Electoral College reform. They are trying to eliminate the Electoral College.
SOURCE URL: http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/unpopular-vote/


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  • Posted by DGriffing 11 years, 6 months ago
    The practical problem of changing a feature of any political system (such as eliminating the Electoral College) is that those who could most easily change it are disinclined to do so because they got into power as a consequence of the system. They don't want do change a system that they benefited from.
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  • Posted by $ jmlesniewski 11 years, 6 months ago
    NPV sounds like the BCS.
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago
      Not being a college sports fan could you provide a succinct explanation for me, jml?
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      • Posted by $ jmlesniewski 11 years, 6 months ago
        I was mainly being glib but, the BCS is a computerized ranking system that purports to find the best teams in the nation by a context-less formula, most notably in the "strength of schedule" variable which is not measured objectively. Likewise, NPV is spearheaded by a computer engineer who purports to be finding the best candidate for president by dropping context, most notably by focusing on pure number of population.

        I also found this quote amusing:
        "Although it’s not part of the current NPV plan, we could eventually be driven to adopt a run-off election, allowing the top two candidates to face each other in a second round. Imagine the expense, the length of the campaigns, and the legal controversies of such an approach."

        People often cry that the BCS isn't broken, it just needs a playoff element. Humorously, one will be put into action soon, and in relevance to elections, there already is a run-off. That's what the electoral college is.
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  • Posted by CatieM 11 years, 6 months ago
    You are for electoral college?
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago
      Yes, I am.
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      • Posted by CatieM 11 years, 6 months ago
        Not that I agree with them going around legislation, but why are you in support of electoral college?
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        • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago
          Because I believe in the founding principles. The EC still generally serves the purpose for which it was intended.

          I get the feeling that you are not for the EC. If not, why not?
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          • Posted by CatieM 11 years, 6 months ago
            It dilutes the vote.

            Hypothetically everyone in our state could vote democrat, but the electoral college vote would go to republican. Being high industry the people that provide the money and hold back door meetings will be of more influence than everyone making an informed vote.

            I don't like the state making the decision that it thinks is "best", and it is the people that make that decision that make me leery of electoral college.
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            • Posted by $ jmlesniewski 11 years, 6 months ago
              Excuse my ignorance, but isn't the Electoral College for a state required to vote how the popular vote in their state goes?

              And that's the real point of contention. While there isn't a tyranny of the majority on the federal level, each state is a tyranny of the majority.
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              • Posted by CatieM 11 years, 6 months ago
                States are supposed to doesn't mean they always do.
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                • Posted by $ jmlesniewski 11 years, 6 months ago
                  I used the word "required" purposefully. Are they required to vote how the popular vote in their state goes or is it merely a suggestion?
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                  • Posted by HazelChaser53 11 years, 6 months ago
                    I could be wrong, but in my AP Government class, we discussed this a few weeks ago, and the Electoral College can completely ignore the popular vote--it means nothing. You don't vote for the president. Only the electoral college members vote for the president. You just vote for who will be in the College based on who they say they'll vote for, but technically, they're free agents. The popular vote means nothing. For example, in the 1976 election, one of the Electors who was supposed to vote for Ford voted for Reagan instead.
                    The original purpose of the Electoral College was to keep the President as far away from the public as possible. You would elect state legislators, who would elect Electoral College members, who would elect the president. This way, the president would not have to worry about public opinion; he would do what he thought was right.
                    I could be wrong about this; several people here claim there are penalties for voting against the popular vote, but that's not what I understand. In the primaries, yes, the delegates to the National Conventions for the parties are required to vote for whomever they pledged to for the first vote (if it's tied and they go into a second vote, then they can change their minds). But I'm pretty sure the Electoral College is fair game. I could be wrong.
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            • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago
              But your hypothetical does not happen, Catie. If I recall correctly, there are only one or two instances in the past of Electors switching their vote from what the popular vote was. They are not bound to vote that way but they are charged with that responsibility. (If I'm not completely correct in my remembering, I sure someone here will gently correct me.)

              I'm not sure how you think that "it dilutes the vote."
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              • Posted by CatieM 11 years, 6 months ago
                Either system is too easily corruptable. What's to keep the president from bribing electoral votes?

                Popular vote becomes corrupted, because it can be treated as a popularity contest.

                Electoral college is probably the best alternative. I just don't want someone else making decisions for me.
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                • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago
                  The Electoral College was implemented as a compromise between Congress choosing the President and the popular vote deciding who is President. The Founders did not want either of those two alternatives.

                  Presidents attempt to bribe you and me for our votes now. The Electors represent their respective states and its population. Not the Federal government.
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              • Posted by CatieM 11 years, 6 months ago
                Popular votes argument against is that people aren't responsible enough to make informed decisions. Who has the right to tell you your vote was informed or not?
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              • Posted by CatieM 11 years, 6 months ago
                My thinking, if you were the representative:

                Votes are coming in they show fifty fifty for each candidate. How do you decide which side to go for?

                People that will cause the most influence are the voters you are in greatest contact with. Friends, family, campaign contributors, and obnoxious activist assholes. Say you then side with the activist assholes and only 5% of the whole state agrees with what they say but they create more contact with you than any of the other influences. As soon as you side with them their individual vote of one just became 2.
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                • Posted by $ 11 years, 6 months ago
                  "Votes are coming in..." The Electors cast their votes after the election is done.
                  "How do you decide...?" Electors don't decide. They pledge who they will vote for based on the popular vote results of their state. And there are consequences if they break their pledge.

                  Please read up a little on how the Electoral College actually works.
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