Romantic Realism

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 7 years, 2 months ago to Culture
15 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

Romantic Realism is a school of aesthetics that developed as a consequence of the works of Ayn Rand. Rand saw herself (paraphrasing) as "the last of the Romantics or the first of their return." The label Romantic Realism appears nowhere in Ayn Rand's The Romantic Manifesto (1969). However, many of the artists who create these modern expressions of heroic values found validation in Rand's works.

http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 2 months ago
    Isn't "Romantic Realism" nothing more than, Idealism?
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 7 years, 2 months ago
      I suppose, in approximate terms, just as "realism" and "rationalism" are used today, rather than in the technical philosophical meanings.

      This blog has a portrait of George W. Bush in a modern style that echoes Roman realism:
      "The classical Greeks basically focused more on individuals and the ideals an individual should portrait in the society. They focused on achievement of an individuals and what they can do for the community. Their main focus was human being as the superior of all the being and nature as well, and, focused on its characteristics to create many sculptures and other forms of arts (Frank, 227). But, today's idealistic art don't seem to be constrained only to this aspect of idealism as far as my understanding."
      http://appreciationofarts.blogspot.co...

      The understanding of Greek idealism is well-founded. This is from Percy Gardner, one of the British experts on Classical Greece from the turn of the previous century.

      "But wherein Greek idealism most widely differs
      from the idealism of modern artists is, that in
      Greece the ideas were always collective, furnished
      by a city or a school, whereas in modern times the
      ideas are individual. The modern artist tries to
      look at the world in a way of his own and to inter-
      pret it according to his individual bent. He ac-
      quires a personal style, so that any critic looking
      at a work of his will recognize the author. The
      Greeks sought for beauty and emotion, not in-
      dividually but in groups ; so that a student of Greek
      art on seeing a statue will be far readier to de-
      termine its date and school than its actual author."
      -- March 1917, THE ART WORLD, 419, IDEALISM IN GREEK ART By Professor Percy Gardner
      https://archive.org/stream/jstor-2558...
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
  • Posted by Seer 7 years, 2 months ago
    I may delve into that, Mike. But I have forever found "realism" unhealthy.
    For one thing, its very definition: "The picturing in art and literature of people and things as they really appear to be." is illogical.

    Either things really are, or they appear to be. How can something really appear?

    I know, people are gonna try to nitpick this one!
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 7 years, 2 months ago
      I don't know where you got the definition. I get your point. That said, though, it is hard to discuss this without images. But, let me suggest that you can take a top view of glass and a side view of the same glass and superimpose one on the other. The glass "really" is those two views (and much else), but it does not appear that way.

      The essence of this discussion, though is found in Ayn Rand's definition of art: "Art is a selective re-creation of reality according to an artist's metaphysical value-judgments." Even Picasso's Guernica (and all of his works, really) meets that definition. Rand did endorse the "unreal" art of Salvador Dali.

      True, all there is is "reality. What matters is how the artist renders it. Rand (or Branden) gave the example of a cityscape, but done as a foggy night, with nothing distinct. Alternately, consider a scrapheap, but painted in crystal clarity. The scrapheap is the more worthy, more pro-life, more affirmative.

      Here is an essay that I wrote about
      The Thinker a work that was condemned in Ayn Rand's Objectivist* magazine by Mary Ann Sures (March 1969). http://rebirthofreason.com/Spirit/Art...

      You said earlier that appreciation of art is subjective. Objectivists use that word as a synonym of "arbitrary." Two people can have different objective values without either one being subjective.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by Seer 7 years, 2 months ago
        I read your essay, Mike. I have always liked The Thinker, but I think it is because of the impression of the very stillness of a man absorbed in thought.
        As if the world has been walled away; while he concentrates on his thoughts. Focus, maybe. As Descartes said: "I think, therefore I am". And I am sure it should be "I am, therefore I think."

        I took a class in Creative Writing quite a while ago---did manage to write a short story---the text was a paperback called "The Here and Now", with paintings included to show how art produces emotions in the viewer. Those emotions are subjective, of course; they are unique to the individual vewing, or reading, the particular artwork.

        When I view a painting I am emotionally charged, maybe even emotionally changed. Books, too, to a certain extent, but writing also offers food for thought. Painting does too, but first and foremost they bring out emotions, maybe even hidden emotions.

        I hope you weren't insulted with Oscar Wilde's Preface. I thought it a good discussion piece for what art is. Or a debate piece.

        For Oscar Wilde, all art is quite useless, because it is something to be admired. Don't forget the context of the times in which he wrote.

        But I thought his reference to Caliban was genius: There is dislike of realism because it shows us who we are; there is dislike of romanticism because it shows us who we aren't.

        I think you are a romantic, wanting to show what man can be, but want to rationalize your art, by trying to show what man really is.

        And maybe that is contradictory.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by Seer 7 years, 2 months ago
        Oscar Wilde was of the 19th century school of "Ars gratia artis"---art for art's sake.

        I will read your link, though. I think my discussion topic, when I get it done will be both interesting and informative.

        It will encompass the "I" and the "Thou" as perceived by primitives, and early man's ability to "separate" himself from objects in time-space-material reality.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by Seer 7 years, 2 months ago
        From "The Preface" to Wilde's "Picture of Dorian Gray":
        THE PREFACE

        The artist is the creator of beautiful things. To reveal art and conceal the artist is art's aim. The critic is he who can translate into another manner or a new material his impression of beautiful things.

        The highest as the lowest form of criticism is a mode of autobiography. Those who find ugly meanings in beautiful things are corrupt without being charming. This is a fault.

        Those who find beautiful meanings in beautiful things are the cultivated. For these there is hope. They are the elect to whom beautiful things mean only beauty.

        There is no such thing as a moral or an immoral book. Books are well written, or badly written. That is all.

        The nineteenth century dislike of realism is the rage of Caliban seeing his own face in a glass.

        The nineteenth century dislike of romanticism is the rage of Caliban not seeing his own face in a glass. The moral life of man forms part of the subject-matter of the artist, but the morality of art consists in the perfect use of an imperfect medium. No artist desires to prove anything. Even things that are true can be proved. No artist has ethical sympathies. An ethical sympathy in an artist is an unpardonable mannerism of style. No artist is ever morbid. The artist can express everything. Thought and language are to the artist instruments of an art. Vice and virtue are to the artist materials for an art. From the point of view of form, the type of all the arts is the art of the musician. From the point of view of feeling, the actor's craft is the type. All art is at once surface and symbol. Those who go beneath the surface do so at their peril. Those who read the symbol do so at their peril. It is the spectator, and not life, that art really mirrors. Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex, and vital. When critics disagree, the artist is in accord with himself. We can forgive a man for making a useful thing as long as he does not admire it. The only excuse for making a useless thing is that one admires it intensely.

        All art is quite useless.
        OSCAR WILDE

        http://www.gutenberg.org/files/174/17...
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ 7 years, 2 months ago
          For me, Oscar Wilde was one of the great artists for whom it is better to admire the work, and know less about the man. In this case, I think that Wilde's theory of art is best understood from the works themselves, rather than his attempt at flat statements about the very complicated.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by Seer 7 years, 2 months ago
        But let's get down to the real nitty-gritty. And that is the separation of an internal image, a concept in man's mind, from any objective substantive object---meaning an object having existence apart from any human experience of it, that is, any "concept" or "ideation" of it.

        I'm re-reading a little treasure of a book: "Before Philosophy" by H. Frankfort et al, and may start a discussion on it soon.

        Plato, in his "forms" and "cave shadows" or whatever, was attempting that very separation. Is the object that exists in time-space-material reality related to the conceptual "image" man has in his mind? Is the perfect "form" first found in one's mind, or is it external to that mentation?

        I will work more on this, how to present it, this week.

        Beyond that, I give you Oscar Wilde on "Aesthetics".
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
      • Posted by Seer 7 years, 2 months ago
        That was well thought out, Mike, and I agree with most of it. I'll start with your last paragraph.
        To say that subjective means something is only "arbitrary" takes the variety out of human experience. I don't agree that objective can mean anything other than an objective reality. And strictly speaking, there is only one reality.

        My definition of realism is from my worn "Webstert's New World Dictionary". I will only say, if one wants to call any art form realism then it better be real, and not appear to be real.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ 7 years, 2 months ago
          If you read more of Objectivism, you will understand where my vocabulary comes from. It is important to be correct. By analogy to everyday talk, people use "mass" and "weight" or "energy" and "power" or "speed" and "velocity" interchangeably. So, too, with absolute, objective, and subjective, are the common definitions non-technical, and therefore misleading.

          Aesthetic "realism" did not portray people as "really" volitional, creative, and heroic, but just the opposite. "Naturalism" did not deliver people "naturally" using reason to overcome obstacles.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Comment hidden by post owner or admin, or due to low comment or member score. View Comment
          • Posted by Seer 7 years, 2 months ago
            I told you I think you are a romantic. But you might feel you need to use rational thought to justify your art.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo