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SUPER COPS

Posted by Herb7734 3 months, 3 weeks ago to Science
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Oh you people in the Gulch.
You got me thinking about the police. You outlined your experiences not once but twice. I wanted to be sure of what I was hearing. I was raised to respect police, and over the years, my experience with them has been mostly positive, with a few exceptions. But, the problems with today's police as astutely pointed out by Gulchers got me thinking, and as usual, as I started reading up on the subject it led me to some interesting if unexpected directions,. I am going to skip the footnotes and references, as I have little patience for that and just present the bare bones of my reading.

Research in police behavior starts in the national military and filters down to local police, including state police and county sheriffs. Serious studies started after the Civil War in which modern weaponry was introduced bringing with it higher death rates in battle than were previously experienced. It is an axiom in the military that equipment can help turn the tide but no battle can be won unless there were soldiers on the ground.

Cutting through all the voluminous studies on the subject, I was surprised to learn that soldiers of the Civil War and World War One didn't often kill the enemy. Only 15% shot to kill - on both sides. In World War Two, greater indoctrination provided soldiers with a higher kill rate of 25%.Part of that was improved weaponry with automatic guns , canons and flamethrowers.The big challenge, therefore, was how to get more highly motivated soldiers. Let's skip ahead in time about 20 years.

Vast improvements in body armor and the start of exoskeletons have made the soldier more effective , but killing motivation continues to be a bugaboo. Attempts with various drugs including LSD have not worked satisfactorily. The problem is consciousness. trying to create the super soldier or super cop are relying on "meatware." They forgot about Dr. Einstein.Free will comes from consciousness. Consciousness is our perception of reality. But reality is not Newtonian - it is really very weird. In the Newtonian world things can be traced backed to their origins and then moved forward in order to predict their future. However, it has failed to create the ideal soldier. I'm not going to go into entanglement and all the mind-twisting quantum paths except to say that newer more recent experiments which base their psychology on quantum theories have led to CBT, or Cognitive Behavior Therapy, which has proven to create new interneuronal connections in the brain. This is energy creating matter which creates the mental acuity of the ultimate killing predator. If you object to the actions of current police, you ain't seen nuthin' yet.This research has illuminated to me the thinking of certain current military strategists that scares the hell out of me. I doubt if any of us will enjoy dealing with mind altered super cops.


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  • Posted by DeanStriker 3 months, 3 weeks ago
    Informative and well written, Herb. The stuff about the low percentages of soldiers who kill (or won't) was an eye-opener!
    There's a lesson in that which deserves more attention that it's given these days.
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    • Posted by 3 months, 3 weeks ago
      There are, apparently, very few natural born killers. They seem like there are more of them because they get the attention. In the research they seem to be only around 2% of general population and not all of them are bad guys.. Some of them, for whatever brain configuration, don't neccessarilly get pleasure from killing, but just don't feel anything one way or another about it.
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 3 months, 3 weeks ago
    This is a lot of what they are trying to do with Basic Training in the military. I can stil remember chanting, "Blood Blood Blood makes the grass grow!" during bayonet training.

    Good times
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    • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 months, 3 weeks ago
      Drafted dino heard the word "kill" a lot on Parris Island back in 1969.
      Drill instructors told us time, time and again that we were being made into "lean green killing machines."
      This bit from Full Metal Jacket is almost like a vivid memory--save for that fire watch scene at the end~
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu0ju...
      I was told I'd be a supply clerk, by the way, But before I trained to be a supply clerk, I received advanced training on how to be a better killer.
      I was introduced told the M16 (used the M14 on the Island like in the movie) and assorted other weapons, went on hikes, played war and so forth.
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      • Posted by ScaryBlackRifle 3 months, 3 weeks ago
        My son, a Marine infantryman, explained it thusly: "My job is to kill people and blow things up."

        And for that reason, every Marine is, first and foremost, a rifleman.

        If you are not the shooter, you are the target.
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        • Posted by 3 months, 3 weeks ago
          Absolutely true.
          As I have pointed out in slightly different terms, the job of the military is to kill people and break things. If you can't handle that, get a different job.
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  • Posted by  $  Zenphamy 3 months, 3 weeks ago
    Hi Herb; I kind of think we're seeing some of those mind altered cops already. As to CBT, I've seen it so inappropriately applied and in many cases used as a type of politically correct thinking tool.

    Teaching people about thinking and how their minds work are highly appropriate, but doing so in a manner to manipulate correct thinking truly frightens me.

    Txs for your recap.
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  • Posted by  $  Dobrien 3 months, 3 weeks ago
    Hi Herb,
    As you, I have had mostly positive experiences with police .They have a difficult job to be sure. They usually become present in a persons life at tragic events if not traffic enforcement. We hire them to catch criminals that are violent and only can be subdued with force .They are challenged to solve crimes based on evidence that proves beyond the shadow of doubt guilt. That said their power and force is very dangerous when combined with human emotions and temperament. With unlimited funds and as you have pointed out trial and error. The brainwashing and mind manipulation of soldiers and super cops is inevitable , combine that with weapons, Kevlar and removal of consciousness result is a living robot. The CIA ,KGB and other initials around the world with the power hungry ruling elite kakistocrats spend lots of time and effort figuring out ways to kill, and control all in the name of security.
    The federal govt has their reach into local law enforcement in many ways. The founders intent, I think was for local city ,county , and states to handle policing and law enforcement as needed.
    The federal govt was to pave the way for interstate commerce,to protect our borders and from foreign enemies. Governments and bureaucrats have the tendency to be control freaks with the constitution as the barrier between us and them.
    Thanks for sharing your research on
    CBT and COPS
    Regards,
    DOB
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    • Posted by 3 months, 3 weeks ago
      Actually, I barely scratched the surface. The idea of mind altered cops is pretty scary. I left out that there are suspicions that experiments are going on underground with brain damaged patients. Apparently, there have been a couple of novels written on the subject, we can guess who the villains are.
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  • Posted by  $  DrZarkov99 3 months, 3 weeks ago
    I suspect we're not going to be seeing the kind of super cops you fear, but they will be gaining a lot more "toys" to help them, and some of those are designed to lower the stress level and avoid unintended consequences. Drones are cheap, readily available technology to aid in pursuit. The drones today are too slow to keep up with vehicle traffic, except in congested urban situations, but we'll be seeing smaller law enforcement organizations that can't afford a helicopter going the drone route. Look for a high speed pursuit drone in the near future.

    Military non-lethal weapons are evolving beyond the rubber bullet, and will undoubtedly reach the law enforcement arsenal soon. One great method of crowd control is a microwave beam that makes the rioters think they're on fire, even though it does no real harm. It's a little clunky now, but good technology always improves, coming down in cost, weight, and mobility.

    Body cams are being adopted at a rapid pace, and are already acting as a check on excessive use of force by police wearing them. In fact, one female cop got beaten almost senseless by a perpetrator because she was worried that the body cam footage might make it look like she went overboard if she drew her firearm. Increased accountability and oversight is becoming the new watchword, so don't worry about fictional brutal supercops.
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    • Posted by ScaryBlackRifle 3 months, 3 weeks ago
      Apparently the sound cannon is being deployed against the pipeline protesters in N. Dakota.

      Some of it is here, folks. Be governed accordingly.
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      • Posted by 3 months, 3 weeks ago
        I used to have a Marine gunnery sergeant (ret.) living across the street He was very helpful in giving me insights into the Marine way. We were discussing canon and mortar and I asked him, what was the best advice he could give his guys under those circumstances. He said, "Keep a tight asshole."
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    • Posted by 3 months, 3 weeks ago
      Thanks for the added info.
      I'm not worried about the super cops. That's a possible future for you "kids" to worry about.
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      • Posted by  $  DrZarkov99 3 months, 3 weeks ago
        Herb, I'm no kid at 72, but my family is notoriously long-lived, routinely living into their 90s, so I figure I should be concerned about the next 20 years or so for myself, and my family of course. The body cam thing was a big issue here in Oklahoma City, because the cops were concerned about supervisors obsessively reviewing video looking for infractions. Fortunately both sides worked out a set of rules of use that made everyone happy.
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        • Posted by 3 months, 3 weeks ago
          At 82 almost everyone else becomes a "kid." Hence, the quotation marks. My wife's family, especially the women are long lived. She is my age and is spry as a 60 year old. My family, not so much. I tease her by telling her to keep checking me if I sit still for any amount of time.
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  • Posted by chad 3 months, 3 weeks ago
    Getting anyone to kill another human being is a very difficult task when it is on the front line and very personal. Most people don't realize that the greatest fear on the front line is not of being killed or harmed but that you might actually have to kill another human being. It is the same for both sides or it would quickly become obvious which side was going to win in every battle. Occasionally a battle will be very close and very bad with many men dying and killing on both sides. Great book on this by Gwyn Dyer titled 'War'. Spent 4 years in the Marine Corps 1968-1972, learned that for every 300,000 rounds fired on the front line one person died. Move the war back to the artillery line or the air and the guns were fired every time trying to hit targets (not people) they couldn't see. Move back a bit further to the taxpayers and they are more mobilized for the killing and the support will be near 100%. Trials of drugs during the Viet Nam war proved that if you make someone fearless they become so reckless that they are killed before accomplishing their goal. One man assigned to me announced that he was glad to be there because now he could kill someone and no one do could anything about it, got rid of him quickly realizing he would create problems for the rest of the men. It is possible to find videos of police, criminals and civilians facing off within a few feet firing recklessly and unable to hit each other, if they were concerned more their own survival it is not difficult to train a weapon on someone at that distance.
    There are those who will operate death camps and kill with abandon, fortunately they are few in number. If the government finds a way to make efficient killers of those it trains it will not bode well for its citizens who will be in greater danger than any enemy.
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    • Posted by ScaryBlackRifle 3 months, 3 weeks ago
      I could not operate a death camp. But one on one, I can and have killed with my bare hands. I would, I think, find it difficult to kill on orders, but a morally simple matter to kill on my own behalf or that of an aggrieved other.

      Since the election, this question has been bumped forward in my consciousness ... at what point am I willing to kill for "a cause" and who would my likely targets be?
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      • Posted by 3 months, 3 weeks ago
        Why since the election?
        But as to your other comment, upon giving it much thought over time I know I could kill to defend myself or my loved ones at the very least. Possibly others under certain circumstances.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 months, 3 weeks ago
    It very well may be this is over my head, but in my mind this is making it too complicated. We don't need to get into metaphysical issues to know we want police officers and government officials who respect the law and we want laws that insist on respecting people's rights and treating suspects humanely.
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  • Posted by Owlsrayne 3 months, 3 weeks ago
    I had worked in a 600 bed county jail as a medical records tech and had an officer there got me into buying my first firearm. Then from there to getting my Concealed Carry Permit and buying more firearms. Working in the jail with detention officers and patrol officers my experience has been a positive one. I don't see the super cop coming into being any time soon. Even though the majority of officers are ex-military only 10% make it though academy. So, that says something about civilian police training here in Arizona.
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  • Posted by  $  blarman 3 months, 2 weeks ago
    I'm not so sure that there was ever a focus in law enforcement or soldiering to disable rather than kill. It's just not efficient. The problem has always been that swords and ball rounds were pretty lousy at killing someone: it usually took infection to finish them off. A great example was Napoleon's campaign to take over Russia: most of his soldiers died due to exposure to the weather - not exposure to opposing fire. If you want to factor in mortality rates, I would point out that modern medicine has done much to eliminate all but the most lethal of wounds.

    Today's modern weapons, in comparison, are vastly more efficient (and the soldiers better trained). There's a huge difference between a rifle that fires a modern round at 3000+ fps and the old musket-loaders which were typically 1/3 that - barely better than a modern handgun. And the ammunition differences between a lead ball and today's mushrooming hollow-point ammunition (or even more innovative designs) are huge (even though the provisions of modern warfare according to the UN require full metal jacket ammo).

    I don't think its nearly as much about conditioning as it is about technological advancement of the tooling.
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    • Posted by 3 months, 2 weeks ago
      The part that fascinated me was that drugs, used in a different way, more conversant with quantum physics was having a better effect and the temptation was to carry this forward in order to create a fearless, capable super soldier or cop. While no known experiments are proceeding based on these findings, I'm pretty sure there are underground labs working on this stuff today. Super weapons arming super soldiers/cops. Pretty scary.
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      • Posted by  $  blarman 3 months, 2 weeks ago
        Sure, there are the Hollywood stories like Jason Bourne or Limitless but they still require someone behind the scenes to give the orders. Even when you attempt to dull an individual's personal ethics, it isn't the policy wonks taking the drug.

        I think it's also fascinating to study the various super-hero mythoi (had to look that one up) for which ones are the most popular. Interestingly, you can find certain comic book villains - and a few heroes as well - who have lobotomized characters (essentially robots): case in point the "Winter Soldier" of Captain America. What is interesting to me is that these individuals are almost universally de-humanized and their ability to take responsibility for their actions shifted as if they were no more sentient beings.

        The reason I bring up that is because law enforcement and soldiers are two distinctly separate animals. Law enforcement officers have to have a high set of personal moral ethics to want to get into enforcement in the first place, but they also have to have substantial training and deductive skills. Soldiers are rarely ones for creativity except at the command level. To me, that means that while I could see a level of psychotropic drugs working to a degree with soldiers, they would destroy the very effectiveness of an LEO.
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        • Posted by 3 months, 2 weeks ago
          To certain persons robots would be fine if they could respond to changing situations.
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          • Posted by  $  blarman 3 months, 2 weeks ago
            I think they call those Democrats... ;)

            Soldiers are "programmed" to some degree to react without needing to think in certain circumstances because the time required to think would get them killed. So they train themselves to react in certain ways to certain stimuli. Police officers are similarly trained. But either group chooses to undergo the training and (if given time) could develop more creative responses. Robots by definition can not think - they only respond according to pre-programmed pathways. When met with a decision tree they were unable to negotiate, they would break down into an error state.

            Now if you want to talk about an actual animatronic AI, one might get to where you are going. The problem is that most AI's right now are incredibly intensive to "train" - they have to be corrected by a human individual on which solutions they develop are "correct" and which are "incorrect". They have no moral compass whatsoever - unlike a human being - and will accept whatever the human tells them to be "correct" as authoritative. I have a cousin who works in micro-processors who follows the theory very closely and we talked about it over Turkey Day feasts. While there has been progress, it is in limited scope applications. They've been able to develop self-driving cars, but those never deal with ethical issues. Those are where the breakdowns in creating an actual AI take place. Contrary to what people see in the sci-fi flicks, AI is still a long ways from I, Robot.
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