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Was a vote for Trump anti-Objectivst?

Posted by $ richrobinson 3 years, 11 months ago to The Gulch: General
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I voted for Trump and I do think he has the potential to be a great President. That being said I would stop far short of comparing him to John Galt. Clearly he is not John Galt. I have heard it said that voting for the lesser of 2 evils is still a vote for evil. However, Ayn Rand said that there are 2 sides to every issue but the middle is always evil. I felt that not voting or voting 3rd party was falling in the middle. Wonder how others feel about this.


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    Posted by edweaver 3 years, 11 months ago
    It sounds like you made a rational decision. Isn't that a basis of Objectivism?
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    • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
      I would say yes. I think some people feel the country is doomed regardless and a Hillary Presidency would have brought a total collapse on sooner. I felt like if we go down we go down fighting. Time will tell.
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      • Posted by edweaver 3 years, 11 months ago
        I think we still have a tough road ahead, that is unless the whole lot of them reduce the size of our bureaucracy and quickly. Time will certain tell.
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        • Posted by term2 3 years, 11 months ago
          We do have a tough road ahead. Trump will slow down the decline, but you can see from the riots that the liberals wont go down quietly when their entitlements are taken away.
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          • Posted by edweaver 3 years, 11 months ago
            I hope you are right about Trump.
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            • Posted by term2 3 years, 11 months ago
              I hope I am right about him. I was so impressed by his children that I thought the apple doesnt fall from the tree. Also he actually built up a big business in NY, and he just never gave up. We need that in a president.
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              • Posted by edweaver 3 years, 11 months ago
                For what it's worth, after the primary I didn't know if I could pull the lever for Trump. But I keep my mind open to let him earn my vote. About a month ago he had qualified for a vote against Hillary. By election day I was voting for Trump, not just against Hillary. Upon hearing his acceptance speech, I believe I made the right decision. Time will tell.
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    • Posted by ewv 3 years, 11 months ago
      Yes, rational choices require first identifying what the choice in reality is. Voting determines which of the two major candidates will be in power; it is not a philosophical sanction of a candidate's views and not a "vote for evil". When you don't vote wherre there is a difference between the candidates you default to those who are evil to determine the outcome.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 3 years, 11 months ago
    Well...FWIW...I have been waiting for an Objectivist-like candidate. I haven't really voted for 16 years. Oh, I wrote in a joke candidate name 12 years ago but that doesn't count. Food for thought. If you're waiting for an Objectivist you'll probably be waiting forever. Like me.
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    • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
      Excellent point. Even the Libertarian candidates have been disappointing.
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      • Posted by $ Abaco 3 years, 11 months ago
        Yeah. You'd think they'd at least be Libertarian.
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        • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
          Talk about a poor vetting process. This was definitely an election the Libertarians could have gained some credibility. People were hungry for another option. They really blew it.
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          • Posted by $ CBJ 3 years, 11 months ago
            As I said in another thread, even though they took several very unlibertarian positions and ran a less than flawless campaign, Johnson and Weld still accomplished quite a bit. They tripled the LP’s previous presidential vote totals. They were a key factor in Trump’s victory, drawing some votes from Hillary and, more importantly, acting as a “safety valve” for #NeverTrump Republicans and independents by drawing votes from them that would otherwise have gone to Hillary. Over the election season Johnson polled as high as 12%, revealing a large group of voters who are fed up with both major parties and willing to seriously consider third-party candidates who are more in line with their views. These voters will at least consider Libertarian candidates in future elections. And the LP received unprecedented media coverage this year, including endorsements by half a dozen major newspapers. Not all the coverage was positive or sympathetic, but the same certainly also holds true for the major parties.

            The bottom line is that even though the Johnson/Weld campaign was far from 100% libertarian and far from 100% perfect, it was powerful enough to decisively break through the 1% ceiling and lay a foundation for the LP’s continued growth.
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  • Posted by term2 3 years, 11 months ago
    I voted for Trump also, but it didnt do a lot of good here in socialist Las Vegas !! I think that he is a force against the socialist tide, although in the position of president, there will be political pressures to conform to the socialist mold.

    He is a pretty strong willed person and he DID make it past the establishment roadblocks, so we will see.

    I saw Hillary are a very evil and supremely crooked influence in our country and I just couldnt just allow her to take over and run us faster into the ground. I hope I never see that phony smiling face ever again that she put on to look more acceptable. She has evil in her heart I think.
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    • Posted by IndianaGary 3 years, 11 months ago
      If we can ever stop Californian immigration perhaps we could stamp out socialism here in Vegas. Trump should build his first wall on the California border to keep them from polluting the rest of the country. Let them secede; our GDP would go up immediately by at least 10%.
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 3 years, 11 months ago
        I moved to Vegas from California 26 years ago, never regretted it. I'm a little hesitant to have California as a foreign country along our border - what if they decide to invade? :-)

        On the other hand, if they secede then California will lose its 55 reliably Democratic electoral votes, and the newly formed country can become the magnet for "open immigration" while the U.S. adopts more sensible policies. Maybe not such a bad idea after all!
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  • Posted by gpecaut 3 years, 11 months ago
    Absolutely not. Rational thought would lead you to vote to stop Statism A third party vote does nothing. That leaves voting for the lesser of two evils, thus, a rational thinking Objectivist would vote Trump.
    Where we as Objectivist fail, is in getting a more like minded canidate elected to run during the primaries.
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  • Posted by peterchunt 3 years, 11 months ago
    Trump is no Objectivist. However he is closer to our philosophy than the wicked witch. After all when Julian Assuange was asked why no leaked emails on Trump, his reply was there was no corruption by Trump.
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    • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
      The Clintons are a crime syndicate. Now that they are no longer relevant and the Democrats don't have to protect them any longer I wonder what will happen...
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      • Posted by $ CBJ 3 years, 11 months ago
        Both major parties are fractured, and the pro-Bush, pro-Clinton "establishment" no longer has a natural political home in either party. Trump will remake the Republican Party and the Bernie Sanders "progressives" will attempt to become the dominant force in the Democratic Party. Many of the crony establishment "insiders" and their hangers-on may become political orphans for the time being.
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        • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
          I do believe the Bush family and Clinton family are done politically. The Clintons were seen by Democrats as centrists. Her loss solidifies the Obama, Sanders and Elizabeth Warren types as the standard bearers. Trump will hopefully bring the fiscal conservatives back to prominence for the Republicans. A lot is going to happen in the next 4 years.
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      • Posted by IndianaGary 3 years, 11 months ago
        I'd recommend abolishing the IRS long with drastically cutting taxes and eliminating regulations. For that matter, let's eliminate the Department Education and the EPA.
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        • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
          The first 100 days will be hectic. I think he has to start with the Supreme Court pick. Paul Ryan said that they have passed a repeal of ObamaCare before so that should be easy. There is so much to do it's hard to know where to go from there.
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          • Posted by IndianaGary 3 years, 11 months ago
            Repealing O'Care will NOT be that easy. The tendrils of the multi-thousand page law have infiltrated other laws, including Medicare and Medicaid (which I also oppose). It was complicated and virtually indecipherable for a reason. Reverting to the pre-O'Care versions of either program will be extremely difficult because of the systemic changes that Obama rammed through Congress. The healthcare insurance industry has been almost totally destroyed, which was the goal in the first place: first, destroy the industry, then a introduce so-called "single payer"; e.g. government insurance as the "solution" to the problem created by O'Care.

            I do agree that the Supreme Court should be the first thing he should tackle.
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  • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 11 months ago
    I felt the same way! There really was no alternative and that the best we could do is what we got. Now we will see if he is capable of being great, a caretaker or a tyrant hellbent on destroying the country. The "lesser of two evils" now has the con...let's see what he is truly made of!
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  • Posted by $ blarman 3 years, 11 months ago
    I think that truly only a vote FOR Hillary would have been anti-Objectivist. Because voting is all really about what you think that politician is going to do in the future. We knew from Hillary's past behavior and current attitudes that there was a better than 99.999% chance she would act as President in a way that would further erode basic rights. We hoped that Donald Trump would be a change in the right direction, but because of a lack of real history, we left a lot to chance.
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  • Posted by unitedlc 3 years, 11 months ago
    I too voted for Trump. It wasn't my most excited moment, but Gary Johnson had no chance and quite truthfully isn't really a libertarian anyway. My rationale for voting for Trump extended to the basic premise that Hillary can actually do harm to me. She can raise my taxes, worsen my healthcare while skyrocketing my costs, take away certain gun rights, and on and on. Trump, on the other hand, has no plans to take anything from any American citizen, other than possibly lower subsidies, which are not property nor rights. The only thing people have to worry about Trump is whether he will hurt their feelings. This was a no brainer.
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    • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
      I am a registered Libertarian. Running Weld as VP turned me off. He actually told supporters in North Carolina to vote for Hillary in an effort to stop Trump. What an idiot.
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      • Posted by Rex_Little 3 years, 11 months ago
        I saw that from Weld, and it nearly caused me to switch my vote to Trump. In the end I voted for Johnson in the hope of getting the LP into the 2020 debates. He finished with 3% nationwide, so that probably failed.
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  • Posted by chad 3 years, 11 months ago
    Assuming that there are two sides and one is evil and one is moral then the middle would be a move toward evil. When both choices are immoral then either choice is immoral. President elect Trump is already back pedaling on Obamacare saying he will probably keep some of it and that the system simply needs to be 'adjusted'. In other words he had no intention of repealing it and when he did say he would repeal it he always said he would 'replace' it which simply means his intention was to take the pig, put lipstick on it, and give it back to us saying; 'it is no longer a pig.' Trump will not slow down the decline, he will move it forward while pretending that he really is on the side of freedom while Hillary would have told us she was moving ahead on the tyranny of a democratic communist government which is what we already have.
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    • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
      I figured he would keep the provisions for kids staying on parents policy and the provision for pre-existing conditions. That has wide support from both sides. If that is all that remains then I'm okay with that.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 11 months ago
    THERE'S NO DOUBT THAT trump was not my first choice. THAT BEING SAID, I voted for him for about the same reasons as Rich. (My keyboard is doing strange things to my shift key). If nothing else, the man's stamina and tenacity was something to admire. Five rallies in one day? He's made a pot-load of promises; promises that are very appealing. Let's see how well he does on those first 100 days.As to him being evil - I don't really think so. He doesn't take criticism, particularly from fools, and there are times when he should walk away or be silent rather than being a blabbermouth. I don't count those things as evil so much as foolish. But it is obvious by the last month of the campaign that he is a fast learner.
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    • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
      When Trump came here for a rally he went to a town about 15 minutes away from where I work. Ambridge PA. never recovered from the demise of the steel industry and Trump spoke directly to those effected most by bad trade deals and over regulation. The rally started at 3:30 and by 11:30 the venue was full. Tim Kaine came in and held a rally at Carnagie Mellon University. A real contrast in how they approached this election.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 3 years, 11 months ago
    All men are evil, at heart, relatively speaking. ANY vote is picking the "lesser of two evils", as men are not angels.

    In this case, Trump's winning of the election may just give us the breathing room we needed to slow, if not reverse, the degradation of our country. Perfection can never be attained, only approached, and it will take our continued efforts to hang on to every positive change we can.

    If nothing else, my days will most likely be brighter for the next 4 years.
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  • Posted by Blanco 3 years, 11 months ago
    I voted for Trump as the better option for me as a libertarian. I'm a registered Libertarian, but I usually vote for the person who is reasonably close to my value system and has at least a chance of winning. I'm a pragmatist.
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  • Posted by Esceptico 3 years, 11 months ago
    Rand often made things black and white, which is the fallacy of the false alternative. I, too, voted for Trump. This is the first time I did not vote LP, but between Johnson being so bad it was embarrassing to say I was an LP member and Hillary frightened me to death. Besides, I really like the idea of draining the swamp and appointing Cato-approved judges rather than the likes of Ginsburg and Roberts.
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    • Posted by ewv 3 years, 11 months ago
      Ayn Rand did not engage in fallacies of false alternatives. That is not what it means to identify principles of good versus evil. Stop trashing Ayn Rand with misrepresentations. She recognized that a vote is not a philosophical sanction of the candidate's views. She voted for candidates she did not approve of when she saw a worse alternative in the other, such as her "anti-Nixonites for Nixon" to stop McGovern. She also had the sense to denounce the Libertarians.
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  • Posted by $ FredTheViking 3 years, 11 months ago
    Well, I voted for Gary Johnson because he was the candidate that best reflected my values. I feel frustrated towards those who voted for Trump to prevent Hillary from winning. Part of the reason why we are presented with poor choices is because we accept them. No one I know could defend either Hillary or Trump as a solid choice. It was always about the "Not Hillary" or "Not Trump". It time to consider the idea that we vote for candidate instead of against. Anyway those are my two cents.
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    • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
      I voted "for" Trump. Though flawed I believe he has potential. The Libertarians lost me when they picked Weld as VP.
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      • Posted by $ FredTheViking 3 years, 11 months ago
        Your comment suggests Weld is some how inferior to Trump. If that is the case, I am not in agreement. Trump, who had been a life long democratic until recently, presents no clear plans, is somehow better than Weld.

        Weld on the other hand is the best governor we have had in my 20 years in Massachusetts. So please explain why Trump is better.
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        • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
          Trump is still somewhat of a wild card at this point. I think Weld is too establishment to be on the Libertarian ticket. I had read that he was friends with the Clintons. In the final days of the campaign he encouraged supporters in North Carolina to vote for Clinton in order to keep Trump from winning. His job was to get as many votes for the Libertarian party as possible. Being the best in MA. just means he was better than Romney and Patrick...Not hard to outshine those folks.
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    • Posted by fosterj717 3 years, 11 months ago
      Unfortunately, Gary Johnson was the worst possible candidate the Libertarian party could have put forward. A wasted vote even though cast with "integrity" is still a wasted vote and the alternative (Hillary) would have been the final nail in the coffin and a blow to the Constitution of which there would be no recovery. So! There you have it......"The Ugly Truth"!
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  • Posted by Ed75 3 years, 11 months ago
    The problem many have is that this country is neither objectivist nor Christian, The "true believers" who wish it otherwise will always have to decide in favor of maintaining the Constitution or ignoring it at the peril of losing individual freedom and liberty.
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    • Posted by $ 3 years, 11 months ago
      The Supreme Court was a major factor for voters according to exit polls. We should at least be able to keep what is left of the Constitution in tact and hopefully begin to reverse some of the damage tht has been done.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 11 months ago
    I think of electing a national politician as being in a completely different domain from Objectivism, as I understand it. A national politician has to do a dance of appearances to seem acceptable to many people. It almost always involves trying to work people's emotions. The protagonists from AS and Fountainhead were anti-politicians, the opposite of what goes into winning national office.

    Both mainstream candidates this year appealed to people's fear on emotional levels and then had policy ideas of using gov't force to prevent people from trading freely. Johnson was the only one who clearly opposed gov't solving people's problems. I and the plurality of voters thought Clinton was far and away a better choice, but I don't think voting for anyone, even third party candidates is anti-Objectivist.

    I guess it's like what's the most Objectivist brand of vodka to buy. They're in different domains, IMHO.
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