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Ship of Fools

Posted by Herb7734 5 months, 2 weeks ago to Politics
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Some years ago, a book was written and subsequently made into a movie. It was called "Ship of Fools." As the election and the candidates progressed in their diatribes, the title kept popping up in my mind. Has the USA turned into a ship of fools? Looking at the candidates we find that we have two of the least popular people to run for the office of President in recent memory. However, the foibles of Trump do not rise to the same level as the exploits of Clinton. She has gotten away with (so far) treasons and felonies, and a record of scandals so bad and so plentiful, that it likely will take years of research to fully comprehend the degree of evil she has performed. What happens if Clinton wins? Are we a nation of fools if we elect such a creature? After all, when characterizing a large group of people, are they not labeled by what the majority thinks? With Hillary Clinton as our President, would we not be a nation of fools?


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  • 14
    Posted by robertmbeard 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Instead of "Ship of Fools", I would characterize the USA as an Idiotocracy -- a nation of idiots. On one side, the idiots want government to be their mommy and daddy and will elect overt criminals who promise them the free goodies. On the other side, the idiots want to be ruled by a King, with his family installed as the new Royal Family.

    I'm afraid there are very few of us who fully value natural individual freedoms and properly minimized and restrained government...
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    • 15
      Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      Ayn Rand nailed it in her "Textbook of Americanism." "The basic issue in the world today is between two principles: Individualism and Collectivism."
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      • Posted by wiggys 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        herb,
        robertm has a good handle on the situation. when people are poorly or completely uneducated as in the case of children they have yet to learn to take care of themselves. It becomes pitiful when you see people who are older that have yet to become adults because they are still waiting for the handout. The repetition of always being given what is necessary for survival secures dependence on the parent; i.e. the government handout. I do not know if all are idiots, I am sure the greater bulk of the nation is ignorant of how to take care of themselves. To say the basic issue in the world is the choice between individualism and collectivism is quite accurate but I would confine that world to just the usa where we live. the rest of the world is already collectivist. We are the last stand for individualism and it is loosing rapidly. the people we have for years employed to run the usa have very successfully become our overseers like the captain of a ship so yes we are now the passengers on the "ship of fools".
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    • Posted by ewv 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      Not 'ship of fools', 'ship without a rudder', with passengers who don't know what is happening to them. We're still drifting into fascism/socialism in the name of anti-ideology pragmatism with unstated implicit premises of collectivism.

      "... One must first ask: Which is the dominant ideological trend of today's culture?

      "The disgraceful and terrifying answer is: there is no ideological trend today. There is no ideology. There are no political principles, theories, ideals, or philosophy. There is no direction, no goal, no compass, no vision of the future, no intellectual element of leadership. Are there any emotional elements dominating today's culture? Yes. One. Fear.

      "A country without a political philosophy is like a ship drifting at random in mid-ocean, at the mercy of any chance wind, wave, or current, a ship whose passengers huddle in their cabins and cry: "Don't rock the boat!"—for fear of discovering that the captain's bridge is empty.

      "It is obvious that a boat which cannot stand rocking is doomed already and that it had better be rocked hard, if it is to regain its course—but this realization presupposes a grasp of facts, of reality, of principles and a long-range view, all of which are precisely the things that the 'non-rockers' are frantically struggling to evade.

      "Just as a neurotic believes that the facts of reality will vanish if he refuses to recognize them—so, today, the neurosis of an entire culture leads men to believe that their desperate need of political principles and concepts will vanish if they succeed in obliterating all principles and concepts. But since, in fact, neither an individual nor a nation can exist without some form of ideology, this sort of anti-ideology is now the formal, explicit, dominant ideology of our bankrupt culture."

      Ayn Rand, "The New Fascism: Rule By Consensus" in Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal, 1965
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    • Posted by KevinSchwinkendorf 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      Not to mention all the illegal aliens from Third World countries who know nothing about American traditions, heritage, culture, etc. They are being "encouraged" to vote for more "free stuff" - to be paid for by real Americans via the IRS. I just read where Obongo is encouraging illegal aliens to vote and there will be no charges against them. If THAT isn't treason, I don't know what is...
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    • Posted by gerstj 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      And, if Hillary wins,we will start moving rapidly toward the Venezuelan model. Hillary will continue the move to remake American society to one that has a ruling aristocracy and a vast lower class which is dependent on government handouts. The middle class will be further reduced so it is no longer a threat to the rulers. Also, millions of illegals and Islamic refugees will continue to flow in to assure permanent conflict and violence.
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  • 10
    Posted by salta 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I like the satirical comment by Douglas Adams in Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy. The candidates for president of the galaxy are chosen as the most unlikely outrageous characters they can find, to grab the people's attention. He is only there as a distraction, to hide what is REALLY going on.
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  • Posted by  $  WilliamShipley 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I think that the real reason that two of the least popular people are running for president is that negative advertising works. Campaigns rely on it more and more, emphasizing the negative aspects of the opposition to the point that at the end, whomever is running, they will be the two least popular people running for president.
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    • Posted by term2 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      I think thats because the population is divided in half. We should really be two separate countries, but that would never be allowed by the statists.

      Trump is" liked" by his supporters generally, and Hillary is" liked"( but embarrassed and also encouraged by what she got away with) by her supporters.
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      • Posted by  $  blarman 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        I'd argue that the divisions are way more than 1/2 and 1/2. What you really have is about 25% which is hard-core progressive. You have another 25% which is hard-core conservative. Then you have the other 50%, of which only about 1/2 even vote but of which most are still mired in their traditional associations to the major parties.
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      • Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        Since one side is completely divided by around 3,000 miles, that may be difficult. I think there should be three parties. California and the west coast the Crazy Party. Texas and the mid west the Stodgy Party. New York and the northeast, The Sociable Socialist Party.
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  • Posted by  $  Abaco 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    She will be the next president. And, I don't think any of us can predict how interesting this is going to get. I vaporized any of my social media existence, for example, in case that may be used as some sort of dossier to decide which people to go after. Do I think that sounds paranoid? Yep. I'll own that this time.

    To answer your question - The American people have decided that they want to be led, to have demands placed on them as long as a few basics are promised in return. They'll hand everything over for it. Anybody who doesn't want to go along with that better be at the level of a Weiner (no pun intended) or forget it. I think you are going to see force enacted on your fellow citizens at a level you've never seen before. I've been patiently, silently watching the laws getting signed here in California, executive orders by the Prez (just saw a hot one from Friday - he loves doing that on Friday)...watching how things are getting tee'd up for real force. Best of luck to all of you.
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    • Posted by term2 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      Its going to be a rough future, similar to that in Venezuela, if Hillary forces her way into presidency through the electoral college. The country is divided and that wont change. Hillary would NOT be MY president ever.
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      • Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        Nor mine.
        But, being a nation of laws, she has them, sadly, on her side if the fools elect her.
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        • Posted by term2 5 months, 2 weeks ago
          Hiding in plain sight as in ALONGSIDE NIGHT, is one of the passive aggressive ways to do it. Forming a group of people with various talents who trade amonst themselves outside of the government control is another
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          • Posted by  $  Abaco 5 months, 2 weeks ago
            I already see this happening. Firsthand, I know doctors who gladly give great service for cash. They are tired of dealing with the Obamacare paperwork. There are many more examples that I'm seeing.
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            • Posted by term2 5 months, 2 weeks ago
              My family doc joined MDVIP concierge group. I pay $125 per month for access to him. He collects whatever he can from medicare to supplement what I pay him. i also have a prostate cancer doc who I see once a year- costs me $700 flat for about a 3 hour appointment, and he doesnt accept medicare.
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              • Posted by  $  Abaco 5 months, 2 weeks ago
                It seems like more and more are shifting this way. I remember first hearing of doctors simply working for cash-only about three years ago. Can't blame them. I pity them a bit. The AMA ran them through the ringer then the rules all got changed. Several years back I heard that very few med students were going to go into being general practitioners due to the paperwork load. Perhaps there are some doctors here who can comment...
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                • Posted by term2 5 months, 2 weeks ago
                  The leftists dont want solo general practitioners. They want large organizations of doctors like in Kaiser that they can control more. Threaten Kaiser with some regulation that will help cut the benefits to the people to help the crooked system, and they will buckle easier and more efficiently than thousands of independent doctors.

                  The ultimate for the government would be medicare/medicaid centers that doled out care according to their formulas. Im sure if they had their way, they would forbid doctors from practicing except those in large groups that were 'approved" by the government.
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                  • Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
                    Their ultimate goal which is easy to see in the evolution of Obamacare is a one payer system. Their excuse is that health care is too big of a problem to be handled by any one insurer but the government is, of course, big enough to do the job. So, if you think healthcare is screwed up, if Hillary gets in, expect 6 months waits to see a doc, or look at the veteran's situation.
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                    • Posted by  $  Abaco 5 months, 2 weeks ago
                      The government absolutely sees itself in the role as sole provider of health care, wanting to enjoy the ultimate power it can have over the masses with such an arrangement. We're already almost all the way there now. It will be complete within a couple years. And, it will be hell on earth.

                      Just last night I had an intimate, quiet conversation with my son in his room. He, 11, expressed that he is frightened by Hillary Clinton because he understands she will force vaccines on the population. She will. He's right. In his case, he suffered a debilitating neurological effects from early application of the MMR vaccine. He has clawed his way back like a true champion. Now, we face this. In my research into becoming an expat I have found that a lot of families looking into going expat are in the same boat. I will not sacrifice my children.
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                      • Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
                        You are absolutely right. That's horrible about your son. I would have been beside myself if that had happened to one of my boys. I understand how you feel. Let's hope it doesn't come to that, but I'm sure that you are wise enough to look into contingencies just in case. I never thought of your situation, but it certainly illustrates how poorly considered action by the government affects people in so many ways that it is nearly impossible to comprehend them all.
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  • Posted by tjmalone 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Herb, I agree with you but I'd suggest that the fools had their Prince when Obama was elected. If Hillary is elected, the knaves will have their Queen.
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    • Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      I think that Obama truly believes in some of his craziness and will resort to all kinds of evil in order to promote it. Clinton, however, believes in nothing and as a result will stoop as low as she needs to in order to benefit Clinton, Inc.
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      • Posted by term2 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        I think Hillary would be empowered by what she has gotten away with and will go even farther in the future to create cronyism that we havent seen yet
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  • Posted by ProfChuck 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Trump may be a boor and a ruffian but there is no indication that he is a criminal or a traitor. His own self interests guarantee that he wants the country to do well because the more the country prospers his own fortunes improve accordingly. It is argued that he avoids playing taxes and his response is "Because I'm smart". Actually that makes a lot of sense. He employs thousands of people that do pay taxes and on balance that amounts to more income to the government than the taxes he has successfully avoided. How many of those people would not have jobs it Trump had paid "His fair share"?
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    • Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      There is no intelligent person that I know who doesn't pay as few taxes as possible. This doesn't make you a bad citizen, only a careful one. Certain people, particularly those in the public theater and make big bucks might pay or overpay in order to avoid aggravation or accusation, but everyone else -- Don't Be A Fool.
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  • Posted by Blanco 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I've been in the long process of watching all the episodes of "The X-Files" again. When I viewed them originally, I enjoyed them but had no doubt that they were not based in reality. In my youthful naivete, I actually believed that the government was my friend. Now when I watch the episodes, I find myself now believing that all the government manipulation and coverups are not only possible but now even probable. This is what Hussein and Hillary have done to my trust level - very sad indeed. I see virtually no hope now that our republic will be returned to Constitutional restraint, and that's even sadder.
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  • Posted by term2 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    I think I finally figured out why the press says these are the two most hated candidates. First of all, the country is pretty much split in half- one group is crooked and wants the establishment to continue and be a part of it, and the other group is tired of the socialist programs and crony stuff and wants to be free of it.

    Therefore, the first group loves Hillary and HATES trump (and they DO hate Trump). The second group loves Trump and wants to lock up Hillary forever.

    I am not so sure at all that there are that many who hate both candidates.

    I dont believe the media at all any more. They all fall into the first group and cant be trusted.
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  • Posted by  $  Dobrien 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    +1 Herb,
    Many people don't even know anything about the people that rule us. They know nothing of Obama's history and little of Clinton's corruption. They vote as good brainwashed fools.
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    • Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      I never realized the depths of dumbness until I got into political discussions. I thought that perhaps some were so locked in to idiocracy through ethnicity, or tradition, but when they hung on in the face of all evidence to the contrary, with the stupidest, most obvious counter argumens, I was reminded constantly of the ship of fools.
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      • Posted by  $  Dobrien 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        Thanks Herb,
        It is very frustrating many no longer read a book or challenge themselves to expand their knowledge. I know that Some find it to depressing to give it a lot of consideration. With many families having 2 full time workers and a rat race to keep up with all the demands, in addition to the media brainwashing, sadly the PC and collectivism wins. I try to avoid all discussion with family, in laws and the nieces and nephews. My wife is glad for the gulch as I can discuss these issues with informed reasoning like minded folks.
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Hey, Herb. Some fool gave you a -1 that left you with a 0.
    Me dino saw that movie at the best theater in Dothan, AL.
    Now its an added space for the court house parking lot.
    Dang, old dino be old.
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    • Posted by 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      Lots of places like that, dear Dino. I miss those small picture palaces with the buttery smell of 25 cent popcorn (The giant sized) and 10 cent children admission showing Dumbo on Saturday afternoon. Didn't need a parking lot because it was within walking distance to just about every one's house. That was where I first found out that popcorn and chewing gum don't mix.

      I'm just like the TV Show "Whose Line Is It Anyway" where everything is made up and the points don't matter.
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        As a kid I saw Dumbo and lots and lots of movies during the late 50s and all through the 60s there at that grand old-fashioned movie theater
        It had a huge curtain that would roll open and shut.
        There was even a balcony but that was for blacks only at first.
        I tried that balcony out when the South became integrated and decided that's only seating for a filled-up theater like for The Song Of Music (saw it there downstairs) or some other blockbuster.
        Oh, I did give you a +1 on top of that 0 by the way. Left that part out upstairs.
        Took countless dates there . . ..
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  • Posted by chad 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    40 years ago when a senator from Colorado, Gary Hart, wanted to run for president a rumor of his marriage infidelity came up and his career as senator and potential ended very quickly. Now we have two fools who misuse laws and authority (or try to purchase authority as Trump did the Clintons) and not only are they popular one of them will win the election. This election is a reflection on the morality of the voters and those who will submit to whatever happens after the vote saying; "we have to obey, it is the law and the people have spoken."
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  • Posted by  $  Your_Name_Goes_Here 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Short answer to your question: YES.

    I'm afraid that we have reached a tipping point whereby votes are being cast not for what is best for the country, but for the freebies that candidate will provide to said voters.

    It is a sad time in the history of our nation.
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    • Posted by NealS 5 months, 2 weeks ago
      Sometimes I wonder if it would be best to also vote the for the freebies and just get it over with. I've been retired for 15 years now, but may go and apply for unemployment just for the heck of it. I will tell them I need a job to pay my taxes and medical expenses. If we all went on welfare who would give them the money to give to us? They'd have to just print another 20 trillion or so and everyone could reap the "benefits".
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      • Posted by  $  pixelate 5 months, 2 weeks ago
        Bingo... I am getting literally sick as I continue to discover that among my friends and associates, are several on SSDI ... supposedly Disabled, unable to work, but they still participate in all the activities that would indicate that one can work: cutting the grass, shoveling snow, driving a truck, loading and unloading a car, caring for a garden, walking dogs... all of it.
        My consideration is to have a triple-application to SSDI: Bad back, acute social anxiety disorder and fibromyalgia (the disease with the dubious distinction of being characterized purely based on its symptoms -- read, "fraud - it's all in your head.").
        Then, after getting on the Gravy Train -- I would announce my "Retirement" on social media, making clear my bad back ... but the fact that I will continue to hike, climb mountains and run marathons. Why the hell should I continue to operate as a milch cow in full light of all the fraud around me? It is disgusting. I was doing a little math... about how the SSDI program should have fraud investigators... and how with 0.1% of the $180B a year SSDI payout budget -- those investigators could chip away at the 13M recipients of this govt program. But realistically, it is too damn late... we're party to the witnessing of Twilight's Last Gleaming ... I truly hope that I am around long enough to partake in the sweeping away of the host of maggots.
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