Canada's Supreme Court Penalizes Walmart for Closing Store After Workers Unionized

Posted by sdesapio 9 years, 10 months ago to Business
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Canada's Supreme Court ruled Friday that Wal-Mart must compensate former workers at a Quebec store that was closed after they voted to become the first Wal-Mart store in North America to unionize.


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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    One who could care less about individual rights can give great respect to the dignity of a person, as they twist the knife in his back while they are robing him.
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "It seems to me like they're two different ways of saying the same thing."

    It isn't
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Dignity" is not, has never been, and never will be a synonym for "rights".
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  • Posted by UncommonSense 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, and the guy is a thug. A freaking wise-guy and you seem to like him. There are ways, you know, you can use his own stupid rules against him.

    No, I'm not going to point you in the right direction to find out.
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  • -1
    Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    It seems to me like they're two different ways of saying the same thing.

    You keep talking about Saul Alinsky's philosophy, but I have to ask, have you ever read his books?
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago
    Your snip-it from Saul Alinsky's book does provoke some questions.

    Is dignity an individual right? Meaning, it exists for all individuals without any services required from other individuals. And, you are not to violate that right against any individual, not just the ones you are currently working with. And, any violation of this right is morally wrong and may be punishable.

    If dignity is not an individual right, does dignity supersede individual rights?

    I'll continue this on a new topic if you so choose to create it.
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Oh I know Saul Alinsky didn't care much about individual rights. He had a very different philosophy.

    "Not everything is about rights."
    Here is a simple "mind exercise":
    If there were only two people on an island, which of these two basic philosophies would be more ethical?

    Respect each others individual rights? You can do anything else you want.
    Or
    Respect each others dignity? You can do anything else you want.
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  • -1
    Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You seem to be rather fixated on the concept of rights. I don't think Saul Alinsky was even talking about rights at all. He was simply saying that when you're working with other people, you have to respect their individual dignity, otherwise they're not going to cooperate with you. Not everything is about rights.
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So, does "dignity of the individual" supersede individuals rights?
    Should both individual rights and "dignity of the individual," be respected by everyone?
    How would have Saul Alinsky answered these?
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  • Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Right, and when you go about as an individual improving your own personal living conditions, will you be cooperating with any other individuals, or will you be doing everything alone, by yourself, without any help from anybody?
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  • -1
    Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Well, he did say "the dignity of the individual," which does definitely seem to suggest that it would be applied to individuals. And I don't think he was necessarily presenting it as a right, but more like a piece of advice if you want to succeed in your endeavors. If a community organizer does violate the dignity of individuals, his "punishment" will be that the community organization will not succeed. This is also good advice for businessmen. When you're trying to close a deal, you have to respect the dignity the other party, otherwise they're not going to get on board with you.
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  • Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Okay, so you're not operating under the premise that regulations are inherently antithetical to a free market. Good to know. :)
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  • -1
    Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    "Through all this the constant guiding star of the organizer is in those words, "The dignity of the individual." Working with this compass, he soon discovers many axioms of effective organization.

    If you respect the dignity of the individual you are working with, then his desires, not yours; his values, not yours; his ways of working and fighting, not yours; his choice of leadership, not yours; his programs, not yours, are important and must be followed; except if his programs violate the high values of a free and open society. For example, take the question, "What if the program of the local people offends the rights of other groups, for reasons of color, religion, economic status, or politics? Should this program be accepted just because it is their program?" The answer is categorically no. Always remember that "the guiding star is 'the dignity of the individual.'" This is the purpose of the program. Obviously any program that opposes people because of race, religion, creed, or economic status, is the antithesis of the fundamental dignity of the individual.

    It is difficult for people to believe that you really respect their dignity. After all, they know very few people, including their own neighbors, who do. But it is equally difficult for you to surrender that little image of God created in our own likeness, which lurks in all of us and tells us that we secretly believe that we know what's best for the people. A successful organizer has learned emotionally as well as intellectually to respect the dignity of the people with whom he is working. Thus an effective organizational experience is as much an educational process for the organizer as it is for the people with whom he is working. They both must learn to respect the dignity of the individual, and they both must learn that in the last analysis this is the basic purpose of organization, for participation is the heartbeat of the democratic way of life. We learn, when we respect the dignity of the people, that they cannot be denied the elementary right to participate fully in the solutions to their own problems. Self-respect arises only out of people who play an active role in solving their own crises and who are not helpless, passive, puppet-like recipients of private or public services. To give people help, while denying them a significant part in the action, contributes nothing to the development of the individual. In the deepest sense it is not giving but taking—taking their dignity. Denial of the opportunity for participation is the denial of human dignity and democracy. It will not work."

    ~ Saul Alinsky, "Rules for Radicals," In The Begining, pages 122-123
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    • Solver replied 9 years, 10 months ago
  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago
    "Isn't one of the core tenants of Objectivism that all regulation is automatically bad no matter what?"

    I don't know. Maybe an Objectivist here will answer that question. What I know is that they only need government force for three fundamental purposes. I'm sure you can Google it.
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  • Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    And tell me, how can you mitigate cronyism without imposing legislation? Isn't one of the core tenants of Objectivism that all regulation is automatically bad no matter what?
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    • Solver replied 9 years, 10 months ago
  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Do you know the difference between free market capitalism and cronyism? If someone says cronyism is free market capitalism, do you believe it?

    People can claim the sky is green. That doesn't make it true.
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  • Posted by UncommonSense 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry, but I have to comment on this: lolololol. That would be the most ridiculous thing I could ever imagine: SA respecting individual rights. If Maph thinks "yes he does', then he obviously doesn't know SA.
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    • Solver replied 9 years, 10 months ago
    • Maphesdus replied 9 years, 10 months ago
  • Posted by $ winterwind 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Except that there is another party to the negotiations - the company involved. The members of the community can "work together" all they want, but where do they work?
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ok, you say, “Saul Alinsky was a big advocate of freedom”
    You ask, “Don't you want freedom?”

    Packaging the two together as if they should or must be packaged that way.
    Agreeing that a person wants freedom does not in any way mean the person would automatically agree to Saul Alinsky's idea of freedom or methods required to obtain it.

    Saul Alinsky may say he was for freedom but he was not for the type of freedom most individuals would voluntarily choose to have or in the way they would voluntarily choose to have it.. He and now his followers condone and justify seriously questionable morals to arrive at their ends.

    A simple, yes or no question:
    When working torward his goals for a free society, would Saul Alinsky tell all his followers to respect everyone individual or natural rights?
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  • Posted by $ winterwind 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    for your 2nd paragraph, RIGHT!

    For the 3rd, ONE of the issues is about whether we have too much/too little regulation. There is no way a country can possibly have the number of regulations we do, and have them be "right."
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  • -1
    Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Fun fact: free market capitalism has been used to justify that exact scenario. If you don't let the dam be built, you're interfering in the free market! Or so the large corporations claim.

    There's a documentary called "The End of Poverty?" which you can watch for free on YouTube here:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pktOXJr1...

    Skip ahead to 1:12:00 for the part where they talk about the dam being built and destroying the farmland of the local population.
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  • -1
    Posted by Maphesdus 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I did read that post. Unfortunately, your comment is rather vague and cryptic, and a clear and concise meaning is difficult to derive from it. Perhaps you could expound on your thoughts a bit more?
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  • Posted by Solver 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    See my post above with three thumbs up that starts with, "You ask some rather simple and innocent questions..."
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