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When is the proper time to resist with force?

Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
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Consider the question posed in this excerpt from John Ross' "Unintended Consequences"

Totalitarian regimes are wrong, so don't let the State enslave you'. That's like saying, 'Don't get sick'. The important question is, when do you know it's going to become enslavement? When is the proper time to resist with force?"
"Please elaborate, Mr. Bowman." Henry took a deep breath.
"The end result, which we want to avoid, is the concentration camp. The gulag. The gas chamber. The Spanish Inquisition. All of those things. If you are in a death camp, no one would fault you for resisting.
But when you're being herded towards the gas chamber, naked and seventy pounds below your healthy weight, it's too late. You have no chance. On the other hand, no one would support you if you started an armed rebellion because the government posts speed limits on open roads and arrests people for speeding.
So when was it not too late, but also not too early?"
"Tell us, Mr. Bowman."
"Professor Arkes, I teach a Personal Protection class off-campus, where most of the students who sign up are women. I'm seeing some strong parallels here, so please indulge me in an analogy."
"Go ahead."
"A woman's confronted by a big, strong, stranger. She doesn't know what he's planning, and she's cautious.
Getting away from him's not possible. They're in a room and he's standing in front of the only way out, or she's in a wheelchair—whatever. Leaving the area's not an option.
"So now he starts to do things she doesn't like. He asks her for money. She can try to talk him out of it, just like we argue for lower taxes, and maybe it will work. If it doesn't, and she gets outvoted, she'll probably choose to give it to him instead of getting into a fight to the death over ten dollars. You would probably choose to pay your taxes rather than have police arrive to throw you in jail.
"Maybe this big man demands some other things, other minor assaults on this woman's dignity. When
should she claw at his eyes or shove her ballpoint pen in his throat? When he tries to force her to kiss him?
Tries to force her to let him touch her? Tries to force her to have sex with him?" Henry took a deep breath and shrugged.
"Those are questions that each woman has to answer for herself. There is one situation, though, where I tell the women to fight to the death. That's when the man pulls out a pair of handcuffs and says, 'Come on, I promise I won't hurt you, this is just so you won't flail around and hurt either of us by accident. Come on, I just want to talk, get in the van and let me handcuff you to this eyebolt here, and I promise I won't touch you. I'm not asking you to put on a gag or anything, and since you can still scream for help, you know you'll be safe. Come on, I got a full bar in here, and color TV, and air conditioning, great stereo, come on,just put on the cuffs.'
"I tell women that if that ever happens, maybe the man is telling the truth, and maybe after talking to her for a while he'll let her go and she will have had a good time drinking champagne and listening to music. But if she gets in the van and puts her wrists in the handcuffs, she has just given up her future ability to fight, and now it is too late." Henry realized he had been making eye contact with all the other people in the lecture hall, just as he did when he taught a course. Now he looked directly at the professor.
"How do you spot the precise point where a society is standing at the back of the van and the State has the handcuffs out?"


All Comments


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  • Posted by Blanco 8 years, 9 months ago
    I would say we're definitely in the preparatory state just before the violent state commences. Words like guns, ammo, gold, food and water come to mind. It's a decision that each of us has to search our conscience assiduously before acting (or not acting).
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  • Posted by Zero 8 years, 9 months ago
    I remember AR saying in a Q/A session, the time to resist was when we've lost the freedom of speech.
    Until that time it's our responsibility to persuade, but when that avenue is closed we have no choice but to revolt.

    Buuut, that may have been time to shrug - not take up arms. (I have learned not to trust my memory anymore. At my age facts have a half-life.)

    However, there must be a time when shrugging is not enough. There is no JG out there working to make it all right.
    Ultimately, shrugging does nothing to guide the future.
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  • Posted by Abaco 8 years, 9 months ago
    I prefer going Galt than fighting. There's a difference.
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  • Posted by Abaco 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You will see national forced medical treatment under Hillary. I won't get into it here, but in some of my own work I have used the Nuremberg Code to defend my position on things. Yes...Nuremberg. Read the ten points of the Code to get an idea of what I'm talking about...
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years, 9 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Each of those things are evil enough but with some creativity, can be gotten around with a little risk.

    The question is, at what point will we not be able to get around what ever they want to do.

    Look at the people in Cuba, they either work together to keep their cool cars goin, make money on the side, gaming the system at the same time or...take the plunge and float to Florida.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 8 years, 9 months ago
    Slippery question. I've thought about this quite a bit related to plot lines. The hard part is that individuals resisting or using force in resistance will be marginalized as radicals, crazies, criminals or terrorists. If a group acts out against tyrannical governance its considered a riot and can legitimately be met with force.

    The only real solution to to shrug or, since we can't get away, milk the system for all its worth and let it collapse under its own weight.
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  • Posted by Abaco 8 years, 9 months ago
    We are getting really close. It's important for everybody to figure out where their own line in the sand is. I know where mine is, and I'm researching getting outa Dodge...because we're close.
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  • Posted by 8 years, 9 months ago
    What stage was ?
    - Federal Reserve Act 1913
    - Sixteenth Amendment (Income Taxation)
    - Gun Control Act of 1968
    - Comprehensive Crime Control Act of 1984 (federal Asset Forfeiture Program)
    - Crime Control Act of 1990 (gun free zones)
    - the Patriot Act 2001
    - creation of Fatherland Security 2002
    - bankster bailout blackmail funding 2008-2009
    - NSA warrantless surveillance and wiretapping 2001-2016
    - federally enforced mandatory medical insurance (Obamacare 2010)
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  • Posted by mminnick 8 years, 9 months ago
    Very thought provoking. (+1). I don't think you should wait that long. Initial actions, the prep for the fight should start when he blocks the door. A high state of readiness to fight should be entered when the handcuffs appear and he starts talking about getting into the van. you pull the trigger when he moves toward you. Period.
    Look at the history of the revolution. It started with small things, little restrictions. When nothing was said/done, more actins were taken, more restrictions and taxes. finally the final action (Lexington) and the trigger was pulled.
    It has been argued by some that the trigger should have been pulled when the quartering of British troops in civilian housing was ordered without regard to personal and private property rights. That wold have been enough for me to start.
    Not sure where it is now, but we are past the no worries stage and well into the prep phase. IMHO.
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