When is the proper time to resist with force?
Posted by freedomforall 8 years, 9 months ago to Philosophy
Consider the question posed in this excerpt from John Ross' "Unintended Consequences"
Totalitarian regimes are wrong, so don't let the State enslave you'. That's like saying, 'Don't get sick'. The important question is, when do you know it's going to become enslavement? When is the proper time to resist with force?"
"Please elaborate, Mr. Bowman." Henry took a deep breath.
"The end result, which we want to avoid, is the concentration camp. The gulag. The gas chamber. The Spanish Inquisition. All of those things. If you are in a death camp, no one would fault you for resisting.
But when you're being herded towards the gas chamber, naked and seventy pounds below your healthy weight, it's too late. You have no chance. On the other hand, no one would support you if you started an armed rebellion because the government posts speed limits on open roads and arrests people for speeding.
So when was it not too late, but also not too early?"
"Tell us, Mr. Bowman."
"Professor Arkes, I teach a Personal Protection class off-campus, where most of the students who sign up are women. I'm seeing some strong parallels here, so please indulge me in an analogy."
"Go ahead."
"A woman's confronted by a big, strong, stranger. She doesn't know what he's planning, and she's cautious.
Getting away from him's not possible. They're in a room and he's standing in front of the only way out, or she's in a wheelchair—whatever. Leaving the area's not an option.
"So now he starts to do things she doesn't like. He asks her for money. She can try to talk him out of it, just like we argue for lower taxes, and maybe it will work. If it doesn't, and she gets outvoted, she'll probably choose to give it to him instead of getting into a fight to the death over ten dollars. You would probably choose to pay your taxes rather than have police arrive to throw you in jail.
"Maybe this big man demands some other things, other minor assaults on this woman's dignity. When
should she claw at his eyes or shove her ballpoint pen in his throat? When he tries to force her to kiss him?
Tries to force her to let him touch her? Tries to force her to have sex with him?" Henry took a deep breath and shrugged.
"Those are questions that each woman has to answer for herself. There is one situation, though, where I tell the women to fight to the death. That's when the man pulls out a pair of handcuffs and says, 'Come on, I promise I won't hurt you, this is just so you won't flail around and hurt either of us by accident. Come on, I just want to talk, get in the van and let me handcuff you to this eyebolt here, and I promise I won't touch you. I'm not asking you to put on a gag or anything, and since you can still scream for help, you know you'll be safe. Come on, I got a full bar in here, and color TV, and air conditioning, great stereo, come on,just put on the cuffs.'
"I tell women that if that ever happens, maybe the man is telling the truth, and maybe after talking to her for a while he'll let her go and she will have had a good time drinking champagne and listening to music. But if she gets in the van and puts her wrists in the handcuffs, she has just given up her future ability to fight, and now it is too late." Henry realized he had been making eye contact with all the other people in the lecture hall, just as he did when he taught a course. Now he looked directly at the professor.
"How do you spot the precise point where a society is standing at the back of the van and the State has the handcuffs out?"
Totalitarian regimes are wrong, so don't let the State enslave you'. That's like saying, 'Don't get sick'. The important question is, when do you know it's going to become enslavement? When is the proper time to resist with force?"
"Please elaborate, Mr. Bowman." Henry took a deep breath.
"The end result, which we want to avoid, is the concentration camp. The gulag. The gas chamber. The Spanish Inquisition. All of those things. If you are in a death camp, no one would fault you for resisting.
But when you're being herded towards the gas chamber, naked and seventy pounds below your healthy weight, it's too late. You have no chance. On the other hand, no one would support you if you started an armed rebellion because the government posts speed limits on open roads and arrests people for speeding.
So when was it not too late, but also not too early?"
"Tell us, Mr. Bowman."
"Professor Arkes, I teach a Personal Protection class off-campus, where most of the students who sign up are women. I'm seeing some strong parallels here, so please indulge me in an analogy."
"Go ahead."
"A woman's confronted by a big, strong, stranger. She doesn't know what he's planning, and she's cautious.
Getting away from him's not possible. They're in a room and he's standing in front of the only way out, or she's in a wheelchair—whatever. Leaving the area's not an option.
"So now he starts to do things she doesn't like. He asks her for money. She can try to talk him out of it, just like we argue for lower taxes, and maybe it will work. If it doesn't, and she gets outvoted, she'll probably choose to give it to him instead of getting into a fight to the death over ten dollars. You would probably choose to pay your taxes rather than have police arrive to throw you in jail.
"Maybe this big man demands some other things, other minor assaults on this woman's dignity. When
should she claw at his eyes or shove her ballpoint pen in his throat? When he tries to force her to kiss him?
Tries to force her to let him touch her? Tries to force her to have sex with him?" Henry took a deep breath and shrugged.
"Those are questions that each woman has to answer for herself. There is one situation, though, where I tell the women to fight to the death. That's when the man pulls out a pair of handcuffs and says, 'Come on, I promise I won't hurt you, this is just so you won't flail around and hurt either of us by accident. Come on, I just want to talk, get in the van and let me handcuff you to this eyebolt here, and I promise I won't touch you. I'm not asking you to put on a gag or anything, and since you can still scream for help, you know you'll be safe. Come on, I got a full bar in here, and color TV, and air conditioning, great stereo, come on,just put on the cuffs.'
"I tell women that if that ever happens, maybe the man is telling the truth, and maybe after talking to her for a while he'll let her go and she will have had a good time drinking champagne and listening to music. But if she gets in the van and puts her wrists in the handcuffs, she has just given up her future ability to fight, and now it is too late." Henry realized he had been making eye contact with all the other people in the lecture hall, just as he did when he taught a course. Now he looked directly at the professor.
"How do you spot the precise point where a society is standing at the back of the van and the State has the handcuffs out?"
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If "they" are stupid enough to.... its on them. In a way this approach reminds me of francisco d'anconia.
Unless you are quite wealthy, you must earn (Taxes) you must buy (more taxes) you must take care of your health (still more taxes).
Rebellion is the only recourse, but that may well take many years and much privation to reach that point. The alternative to fight is flee. The problem is, where to?
It may appear to be preferable to escape to another country while we can, but few if any allow gun ownership adequate for personal security.
I'd much prefer to vote for you, term.
Hillary Clinton, if elected, will likely attempt to create a gun owner registration system, and demand that "assault rifles" be surrendered. I suspect such efforts will not get congressional approval, but she may attempt to push the envelope of what direction she can give the BATF with executive orders.
When armed government force begins to be used to force gun owners to relinquish arms or ammunition, the die is cast. This is an echo of the Lexington and Concord uprising, and full scale armed rebellion follows.
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
Freedom & liberty must be defended at all costs. Once lost, they cannot be regained.
There isnt much left for them to control- now its just going to be how much control they exercise and in what way.
When they raise the minimum wage to $15, there will be layoffs, followed by 10-289 forbidding layoffs so as to control unemployment.
Nothing is off the table now.
Consumer strikes and substantial pulling in of horns (reduced spending) is a great way to cut the government off. Of course they will simply raise tax rates to compensate, but it will take awhile for them to respond.
Engaging in alternative economy is another good way. Doing work and paying for work in cash or in kind is another way.
i say that if everyone spend 10% less per year than they do now, the government would be in a world of hurt. Make that car last another year or two. Dont buy that new house. Switch from prepared foods that entail sales tax to fresh items that dont. Get a reverse osmosis water purifier and dont buy those little water bottles. Buy whatever you can online while there is still no sales tax (that eliminates amazon though).
As Hank Rearden did in AS, try to slow down the political process where possible. That means Trump this time around. Isnt perfect, and the slowdown wont last long, but a few years is significant.
Second line of defense is to try and influence politics to slow down the process. This time around, thats Trump.
If you cant leave, then the next line of defense is to hide in plain sight and live as much as possible under the radar. Avoid banks, use of credit cards, and other government controlled things.
Then there is plain and simple shrugging. Reduce ones lifestyle so as to require less work and therefore less interaction with the government.
The book "alongside night" is a great one concerning this subject.
With the advent of the all powerful NSA and militarized local police, rebellion is not an option until the government just falls of its own weight and stops paying its minions. Only THEN is rebelling a good option.
This process will take awhile, maybe 40-50 years,, unfortunately. Trying to slow down the degeneration of the country is a better bet for adults at this point in their lives, I think.
The 2nd Amendment was put in place because the states feared a standing federal army which was "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State," doesn't have anything to do with only the militia able to hold weapons as the liberals would want you to think, it states that because a standing Militia is required for the security of a free state (the United States), the right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms shall not be infringed". Meaning, it is the Right of the People to defend themselves from the State, or the standing Militia.
Repealing the 2nd Amendment, would in essence, be repealing the right of the people to defend itself. That would and should be the last stand.
I agree, dino, that there are very few serious American patriots visible today.
Rebelling requires a very large committed group or you will be the ONE in jail. Like I tell my friends. As long as the people have their cable TV no one will rebel or come to the side of the one rebelling. As for me I'll be shrugging and let the world find it's own way.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nurembe...
The ten points of the Nuremberg Code
1. Required is the voluntary, well-informed, understanding consent of the human subject in a full legal capacity.
2. The experiment should aim at positive results for society that cannot be procured in some other way.
3. It should be based on previous knowledge (like, an expectation derived from animal experiments) that justifies the experiment.
4. The experiment should be set up in a way that avoids unnecessary physical and mental suffering and injuries.
5. It should not be conducted when there is any reason to believe that it implies a risk of death or disabling injury.
6. The risks of the experiment should be in proportion to (that is, not exceed) the expected humanitarian benefits.
7. Preparations and facilities must be provided that adequately protect the subjects against the experiment’s risks.
8. The staff who conduct or take part in the experiment must be fully trained and scientifically qualified.
9. The human subjects must be free to immediately quit the experiment at any point when they feel physically or mentally unable to go on.
10. Likewise, the medical staff must stop the experiment at any point when they observe that continuation would be dangerous.
Do you propose that this may be used to avoid forced treatment?
No hypocrite (for calling Bush a traitor) would soon come along and jack the debt up even higher and get away with saying it was all Bush's fault. He would have been lynched too, and no he would not be a black guy at that point in history so let's not go there, thank you very much.
In these modern times no one did squat when Bush raised the debt by $4 trillion and all the hypocrite's $6 trillion wrought was a Tea Party rated G sequel, whose huge visitation tidied up so as not to leave a mess.
Nancy Pelosi called these "grass roots" of America "AstroTurf" and then the benign protestors drove back home. That's about all old dino got out of that.
It also seems to old dino that Americans these days will resist tyranny with force only when the progressives progress to requiring sacrifices of the first born.
Case in point: I am old and pretty decrepit. It makes me an easy target. As a result I am expecially vigilant when I am out and about. I am sometimes armed, but only when I consider where I am going is a dangerous place. Otherwise, I am only armed with a pocket knife and a cane whose handle is brass in the shape of an eagle's head. At the parking lot of a neighborhood movieplex I was approached by a scruffy looking guy with a rather large jackknife who while ostensibly cleaning his nails, asked me for a ride as I was about to enter my mini van. Without much thought, I bopped him in the head with the beak end of my cane, jumped into the car and took off like old Jack Scratch was on my tail. I was still shaking when I got home, but a little hundred proof helped. My pants were still clean (I checked).
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