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Hillary supporter tells me he hates Trumps policies but then tells me he doesn't know what they are...

Posted by $ richrobinson 4 years ago to The Gulch: General
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I spoke to a customer this morning who said he is voting for Hillary because he hates Trumps policies. I told him I am voting for Trump because he said he would eliminate ObamaCare. He said "I don't know anything about that". I told him we seem to keep getting killed on trade deals. He said "I don't know anything about that". I decided to give up and get some work done. I believe these are 2 of the most important issues this election cycle and this campaign is devolving into a reality TV show. Wonder what will happen next...


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  • Posted by awebb 4 years ago
    Good to see you Rich!

    Unfortunately, regardless of whether Hillary or Trump wins, I foresee skyrocketing taxes and health insurance premiums for all.
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    • Posted by $ 4 years ago
      Hi Alex. Hate when real life interferes with my Gulch time. My thinking is that Trump will be a little less harmful than Hillary. I just hate when someone votes and they have no idea what is going on.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 4 years ago
      Perhaps some people will realize that health insurance is not a cure for illness at all and the health system will collapse, creating a free cash market for health services.
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      • Posted by awebb 4 years ago
        One of the huge obstacles for this is the lack of transparency.

        My health insurance is a catastrophic plan (so it basically doesn't cover anything until I meet a high deductible) so whenever I need medical anything I try to shop around. Try asking your doctor how much an office visit, test, etc. is going to cost. They never know and seem surprised that you would want to know.

        Think about if other industries operated that way. People would think it was insane... but somehow it's okay for the healthcare industries to be run like that.
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        • Posted by $ CBJ 4 years ago
          Trump's healthcare plan addresses this:
          “Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.”
          https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Healt...
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          • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years ago
            That's the key. I agree with Trump or whoever wrote that. It's not a valid contract if one party agrees to pay any costs for a service and the other party doesn't state what the cost are. There's no meeting of the minds. Just doing that one thing, and setting aside the political stuff about PPACA and immigrants, would be huge.
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        • Posted by freedomforall 4 years ago
          I have no insurance, and have not had any since about 2001. I agree, medical providers are completely in lala land on how a free market works. Its like pulling teeth to get them to understand that I shop on price and I expect them to quote and compete on price. Its not a sellers market unless you agree to it. Now government requires that you participate in a system that steals from you. That is the only function of government as far as I am concerned: stealing and granting the right to steal from people.
          It started when the IRS gave business deductions for medical plans, which benefitted everyone except the patient (who it was designed to enslave by degrees over time, like a frog in hot water.)
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years ago
          " People would think it was insane"
          I agree completely. I do the same thing: shop around. You have to find the one or two people at the provider who have a brain. The rest will be confused that you would want to know. Or they think you're broke and can't pay or something. More often they're just baffled.

          I live in Tampa from '98 to '03, and it was better there. It may be worse in the Midwest b/c HMOs started here, so people here are unfortunately used to turning over these purchases to someone else.
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    • Posted by $ CBJ 4 years ago
      Some positive healthcare proposals on Trump’s website:
      https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/Healt...

      “Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.”

      “Modify existing law that inhibits the sale of health insurance across state lines.”

      “Allow individuals to fully deduct health insurance premium payments from their tax returns under the current tax system.”

      “Allow individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs). Contributions into HSAs should be tax-free and should be allowed to accumulate.”

      “Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, especially doctors and healthcare organizations like clinics and hospitals. Individuals should be able to shop to find the best prices for procedures, exams or any other medical-related procedure.”

      “Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, reliable and cheaper products.”

      Not exactly what Hillary has in mind.
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      • Posted by awebb 4 years ago
        His intentions may be better than Hillary's but his website also says this "... we must also make sure that no one slips through the cracks simply because they cannot afford insurance. We must review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it."
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        • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 4 years ago
          I just heard this morning on the news that since do few counties have more than 2 options for insurers that the government will pick one for you if you haven't picked one. That is so very wrong.
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          • Posted by awebb 4 years ago
            I just saw something the other day about how a lot of places are down to just 1-2 providers and those providers are upping premiums by huge amounts.
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            • Posted by Snoogoo 4 years ago
              The entire state of Minnesota is down to 4 options on the individual market after a number of companies bailed out (I don't blame them, they are losing money). The average premium increase this year is 50-68% for the 4 that are left.
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              • Posted by $ Dobrien 4 years ago
                The land of ten thousand lakes and 4 health ins co. Options. This wil be the third year in a row of 40-50% increases. Do I buy health ins or food?
                A total disaster that is caused by collectivism.
                I expect by 2pm Election Day they will project a Clinton win in this sad state loaded with new Muslim immigrants. I only hope they freeze their asses off this winter and move to the land of fruits and nuts.
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          • Posted by khalling 4 years ago
            He said in the debate many times that he wanted to remove the states' controls on insurer's. It is actually a violation of the interstate commerce clause. What if Virginia decided that Amazon couldn't deliver to their state? people would be outraged. But since most are so removed from understanding how health insurance works and have,now, even less decision-making power of their plans, they just whimper about the sky-rocketing costs.
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  • Posted by one4Rush 4 years ago
    If the statements, accusations, charges, and Etc against Hillaliar are all false?
    How come I do not see any slander or defamation of character lawsuits being filed?
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    • Posted by $ blarman 4 years ago
      Because if you are a famous person and especially a politician you have an incredibly high standard of proof to bear. In the case of a politician, you pretty much have to prove you were innocent of the charges and that means a full-blown inquiry with subpoena power, etc. In Hillary's case, she's already deflected that from the DoJ/FBI. The last thing she wants is a civilian torte case with attorneys who know they can go after the billions in her war chest.
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  • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 4 years ago
    I heard trump say he was going to repeal and replace obamacare with something great, really great (not his job by the way, it's congresses). When asked who was going to pay for it he said the government. They are both (the candidates) statist and both will use force and steal from the producers to give to those who produce nothing.
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    • Posted by term2 4 years ago
      Absolutely. But things will be slower with Trump, giving us a few more years without the really offensive statist things. 10-289 will be upon us, but if Trump gets elected, it wont happen so soon.
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    • Posted by Blanco 4 years ago
      Yes, Trump isn't the ideal candidate for us objectivists/libertarians. However, I'll vote for the lesser evil, i.e. Trump.
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      • Posted by term2 4 years ago
        Exactly. Me too. Hillary would be a foreign affairs disaster, a sellout to the very 1% who she talks about hating- but who support her campaign, and a killer of the rest of medical care.

        Her big supporters already paid; now she must play.
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      • Posted by $ rockymountainpirate 4 years ago
        As xthinker wisely points out, if you vote for the lesser of 2 evils, evil still gets a victory. As I repeatedly say, quit voting for evil and expecting good things.
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        • Posted by term2 4 years ago
          Supporting a crash and reset is emotionally satisfying. BUT, think about what a crash would be like. Government would first get unbelievably powerful and be against your self interest. Basic services we have grown to live with, would be pretty much gone. Business would be much harder to conduct with all the new regulations- which means it would be harder to make a living. Inflation would get out of control, making your savings worthless. Gold would be outlawed as it was in 1933 to keep you from escaping the dollar crash.

          PLUS, the problem is that the ideas that led us to this point have not just evaporated. The very ideas which caused the crash would just be used to reinvent the same things again.

          Less evil a little at a time is a better fix. Eventually you have no evil left. Start with eliminating PC and bringing corruption to light. We need Trump, Wikileaks, Snowden, and other whistleblowers to come down on cronyisn and corruption.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 4 years ago
    The least emphasized element of Hillary's policies, her positions on taxes, may be the most effective argument against her when dealing with the uninformed. In simple terms, she is not proposing to reduce income taxes on even the poorest among us. While she may screech about "soaking the rich," she's in favor of increased payroll tax, which everyone pays, and is the most regressive tax. She's in favor of a carbon tax, which will affect every element of the economy, making everything more expensive for everyone. She wants to double the tax on capital gains, which she claims is aimed at the wealthy, but anyone with a 401K or IRA will also feel the bite. She wants to increase the estate tax to 65%, which won't harm the truly wealthy, who know how to hide their money, but will destroy farm and ranch families. She wants to increase the corporate tax rate, which will help continue the destruction of small businesses, but leave the big globalist firms relatively untouched.

    The immediate impact of Clinton's plans, without even beginning to assess what happens with the "green friendly" regulations she wants to impose, are that they will provide 54,000 new government jobs while destroying over 550,000 private jobs. I have no doubt the effects if implemented will be far worse than these estimates.
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  • Posted by term2 4 years ago
    I have found that support for Hillary is a good gauge of the people I dont want in my "circle of trust". Its like a litmus test for the real inner workings of a person.

    So I am removing from my "circle of trust" all people who say they are voting for Hillary. I will still deal with them, but only at arms length. I wont trust them to support my rights at all.
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  • Posted by JohnJMulhall 4 years ago
    I have two friends who are equally ignorant of Benghazi and the impact of Obamacare on their doctors, but are going to vote for Hillary. Their primary news source is NPR.
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    • Posted by term2 4 years ago
      Those people are just ignorant and stupid. I have wiped them from my list of people to associate with. Nothing good will come from future friendships with people like that. Use this election to get rid of influences that support Hillary. Good litmus test.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 4 years ago
    That's because Hillary is relying heavily on the "useful idiot" population to propel her into office. These are the people who want something from government regardless the cost to either the wallet or personal freedom and the people who are ignoramuses and don't get informed about the issues. These people can be frustrating to deal with, but not nearly so the ideologues who actually buy into the rhetoric despite the ramifications. My brother is one of these: he just can't believe that Obamacare is collapsing even when I show him the proof.
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    • Posted by term2 4 years ago
      I could show him my monthly premiums and those of my friends. What was $156 a month for $1000 deductible insurance is not $409 for $5000 deductibe. Thats UNaffordable care act results.
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  • Posted by jimslag 4 years ago
    The problem with liberals is that they do not pay attention to facts. They cannot wrap their head around truth, they only believe their talking points and never do any research into the basis for those points. If you confront them with facts, they simply go back to their talking points and never listen.
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  • Posted by walkabout 4 years ago
    I guess I might have asked what policies of HRC was he voting FOR. What about the current state of affairs is positive for the customer?? Maybe, just maybe, getting such drones to think, even briefly, can get them to not vote for HRC -- maybe not for DJT.
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    • Posted by $ 4 years ago
      If he was completely oblivious to these two issues I doubt he could have named any. Frustrating.
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      • Posted by walkabout 4 years ago
        I know you're busy, but this was an opportunity to educate; to "save the savable" as Herman Cain would say.
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        • Posted by $ 4 years ago
          I'll see him again. I'll have to ask him what he likes about her. I know he HATES Trump.
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          • Posted by walkabout 4 years ago
            Not voting for HRC is not as good as voting for DJT, but better than voting for her/it.
            It is too bad it becomes a personality contest. Schnidler (sp?) (as in Schindler's List) was, in my opinion a psychopath, but what he did is considered a good thing and almost "saintly." Getting liberals to see the liberal line is not good for individual people in a socialist state is one of the keys to getting them to vote for improvements. The good news is the vast majority of people identify with ideas and policies that are good for society. The bad news is 1) many don't vote and 2) in spite of their stated beliefs they can be bought (for example "cash for clunkers; Obama phones, link cards, etc.). Had the 8 or so million people who's beliefs dovetail with Mitt Romney's beliefs had voted rather than boycott the election because he is a Mormon, we would be on the way to recovery and a thriving economy.
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  • Posted by cjferraris 4 years ago
    Some people spend more time researching a new phone than they do a presidential candidate. They sure know more about reality TV than the person that is supposed to be running the country for the next 4 years.
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    • Posted by freedomforall 4 years ago
      The real problem is that the president does not have the constitutional authority to "run the country" and voters are too ignorant and brainwashed to insist that constitutional limits are valid, and violation of them is a criminal offense that the president must not pardon.
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      • Posted by $ 4 years ago
        A Constitutional expert said recently that this one race should not be given this much attention. It is only because we have allowed the Presidents to grab more and more power over the years. I don't see it changing any time soon.
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        • Posted by walkabout 4 years ago
          The Convention of States project stands a chance of altering the course of this bloated, overloaded ship of state. Power corrupts and after 225+ years not only has the power corrupted but the corrupted have seized more power they have no right to. Both COS and the FairTax are aimed at returning power to where it belongs (the people).
          Unless you are in the military the Post Office should be the only federal agency you have daily contact with!
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  • Posted by minorwork 4 years ago
    I blame the media for the result that emotional, feeling responses suffice for a justification of a position. A valid form of argument with true premises and eveidence supporting the truth of premises asked by me, and you apparently, gets blank stares. Compulsory education and reality shows have done miracles for this media driven oligarchy. The reasons, IMO for the country's increasing divisiveness is in the loss of respect for reasoning in any form. Please help me out of these depths of despair up to the level of cynicism. Anybody.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 4 years ago
    Typical low information voter.
    Next time you see him, ask him if China should pay reparations for attacking Omaha Beach during--
    Aw, pick a war. Any war.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 4 years ago
    "Why climb Mount Everest?"
    "Because it's there."
    Why vote for Hillary?
    Because she's there and she's a Democrat.
    Counter: But she's a liar -- a treasonous liar at that.
    She has become rich from the very people she claims are against the people she defends.
    "I don't know anything about that."
    What is worse than stupidity? Adamant stupidity.
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 4 years ago
    From my observations it seems that those planning to vote for Hillary are doing so for feelings. Whereas those planning on voting for Trump are doing so because of the issues.

    Not saying anything about the validity of these feelings or issues either way. Just an observation.

    Me personally I will go with issues and mainly it is my issues with the Clinton's as a whole and Hillary in particular. While I see Trump as a Red Neck's wet dream and a blowhard. I see Hillary as PURE EVIL!
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