11

Shrug or not to Shrug? Entirely my business and my choice.

Posted by $ AJAshinoff 7 years, 6 months ago to Culture
39 comments | Share | Best of... | Flag

I get REAL tired of hearing the exhausting IF/THEN argument given by DT supporters, as-if DT is that much better than HC and not just a different, less filthy side of a coin thats been resting HC side down for 30+ years. The irritation is worse when that sentiment is bestowed on me here in the Gulch.

What is to shrug if its not to reject what government offers, let the damn thing burn back to how we found it, let those making the necrotic decision suffer the end-results of their own stupidity and to take care of ones self until its time to rebuild properly?

I've done more than my part in the years I've lived (commentary, radio, books, I raised my kids with respect for themselves and the others via the Constitution). If people are too damn stupid (not ignorant) to see that they are weaving their own noose then they more than have the right to commit national suicide.

This election, I shrug.

Whiskey Six - Watch it all Burn
WARNING: this is hard rock/metal music whose chorus, not the entire song, sums up how I feel this year.
https://youtu.be/TAARknUCzwA


Add Comment

FORMATTING HELP

All Comments Hide marked as read Mark all as read

  • Posted by edweaver 7 years, 6 months ago
    I only watched the last half hour of the debate and have to say it did nothing to motivate me to vote. In fact it made me think of not voting for the first time in my life. I called it the most unprofessional, childish debate that I'd ever seen. Told my stepdaughter that she could have seen a better debate in her high school. Of course it is possible the first hour was better than the last but... Just not impressed with those 2 and really wish Johnson was there. I'd like to see him perform in that environment.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ 7 years, 6 months ago
      Agreed. If for no other reason Johnson would have pulled the conversation to more substantial matters. But thats why he was left out, why provide substance between two crappy options?
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 6 months ago
        Because the establishment wants to force the people's hand. Our current electoral system is no different than that of the USSR - line up, put a check mark next to who the system tells you to vote, and drop it in the box. Of course, comrade, you do not wish to have someone in charge other than who WE tell you is right person. Da? DA!!
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
        Hillary didnt need to decimate him. She rigged the system so he would never even get a shot. Look at what she did to Sanders.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 6 months ago
          Hillary did not do it. It was done long ago by both parties agreeing on how the debates would keep other parties from getting their messages out. They agree that the USA has a two party system and any other political ideas are not to be nationally known. So they thought that setting the bar at 15% would keep others out but did not work when Ross Perot ran circa 1992.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
            Its a pretty crooked system if you ask me. Trump literally hijacked the republican party for his own brand of anti-establishment-ism. The repubs hated him for it, and now the media hates him. I hope he wins and we get the system to be a little more fair. Sanders got screwed too, but the stupid idiot stuck with the democrats when he should have gone third party
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Abaco 7 years, 6 months ago
    I really appreciate your words. I haven't voted for quite some time. You really nail it here, AJ.

    Like edweaver, I only watched the first half of the debate. "DT" was completely unprepared in what I watched. The argument, these days, isn't about more or less government. It's about what everybody wants from their bloated and growing government. I know I don't belong. Anymore, I'm just here to make money and provide for my family.

    I had an interesting thing occur a little over a year ago when I decided to step back into the machine and meet with my State Assembly member for a few meetings regarding a law on forced medical treatment. I explained a lot of the science behind why I was opposed, then at the end touched on the basic ethics (Nuremberg, etc...) He listened intently (unusual) and went in and voted against the party line. By the time the law passed I was back in my current version of Galt's Gulch. This society, this nation is in serious trouble. It's sad to watch. But, we have to have our own priorities...
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
      Trump was prepared, BUT he isnt the greatest at the quick comebacks and turnarounds that are required in the so called "debate format', particularly with 80 million people watching and all the hype leading up to the debate. He did bring out very clearly a number of points, and I hope people listen to them.

      Hillary is very crooked, is owned by the people who gave to the Clinton foundation, is crooked enough to get the FBI to whitewash her email hiding and destructions, and knows nothing about business and the economy.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 6 months ago
    I shrug this election too...it's sickening. I've tried real hard to give the benefit of the doubt to some, ie Johnson, and yea...trumpet too. And...I'm real disappointed in the American people in spite of the fact that they have been lead by the nose to this slaughter. I do realize that everyone is not a natural skeptic, obstinate or bound and determined at birth to do it your own way. Not everyone, for a multitude of reasons can awaken from the bicameral sleep the culture has engaged in, (and let's face it, we all at one point or another have curled up into that bicameral space too)...still, knowing what mankind is capable of...I can do nothing but shake my head.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 6 months ago
    The crowd and Holt pandering to Hildermort, and watching Trump look like the neighborhood tweaker on stage confirms my decision to vote for the candidate from the party with which I am registered. At least THAT Johnson looks and sounds presidential... not Imperial or Confused.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 6 months ago
      You mean Gary Johnson ?? The one who didn't know what Aleppo was ??
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 6 months ago
        In the context he was asked I'm not sure I would have done better, honestly. He could have been asked "How do you feel about the recent Tblisi pro-genocide declaration?" (yes, there really was one, and if you can honestly tell what it was about without looking it up, then you should run for president as well...)

        If you'd rather have Clinton or Trump in the white house, that's your right and decision, but for me, I would rather have someone who, once told what they were referring to, give a solid, knowledgeable answer (which he did) than either of the two monoparty candidates who, if elected, will mean the end of our country and what it stands for.

        People are indoctrinated, for their pseudo-news infotainment, to watch and agree with mindless bobbleheads spewing approved propaganda from any of the networks and their subsidiaries... It's no wonder we have two of them as the pre-determined presidential candidates, and that anything outside the "Approved Duo" will get shot down.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by LibertyBelle 7 years, 6 months ago
    I heard some of it on my radio, slept through some
    of it. One dangerous thing I heard from Trump,is his
    saying he would not use a first strike (with, I be-
    lieve, nuclear weapons). I would never say that as
    president. Even if I weren't going to do it, I'd let the enemy wonder.--But we're going to get stuck
    with one of those two, the only choice is which
    one.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 6 months ago
      Yes, but then just a sentence or two later he categorically said 'you can't take any options off the table'. I think he realized his booboo. He has frequently been critical of telegraphing military plans and didn't mean to fall into that.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 7 years, 6 months ago
      Trump pretty much had to say that because of all the "you can't trust him with the button" ads. The chances of us actually needing to use first strike nuclear weapons is very low.

      In general Trump is against telling the opposition what is and is not willing to do.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by gcarl615 7 years, 6 months ago
    I have been wrestling with this question for a while now. IF I vote it will for Trump only because he is not Killary. I believe this the last chance for this nation and constitution to redeem itself and reach the full potential it was founded on. I know this maybe silly but I just cannot totally give up on the whole thing...yet.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ TomB666 7 years, 6 months ago
    I hear you! Some of us are like Dagny though, trying to find a way to salvage something to rebuild on. It's probably a lost cause.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 6 months ago
    Me dino feels patriotically motivated to vote AGAINST sick evil hag Shillary becoming the best president money can bribe.
    Should Big Brother in some form or fashion come knocking to tell you how you're supposed to sacrifice freedoms about this, that or whatever, don't point any accusatory fingers at me. The guns of tyranny will be pointing at all of us anyway.
    I also do not find watching the U.S. Constitution burn along with its Bill of Rights all that appealing.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
    I want to shrug, but the choice is getting close to stop living at this point if one REALLY shrugs, or try to slow down the crony statism process and try to exist with some sort of decent life until its just impossible, or we die.

    Even Dagny and Rearden did that. They didnt want to give up. If Hillary wins, she will destroy my small business and at that point I will definitely shrug. Her tax increases and $15/hr minimum wages will make it impossible for us to continue operating in the USA. Our 10 employees will surely be out of work at that point.

    So although Trump is not perfect, and even if he were, he would have to get the congress to go along with him to save the country. But, he will slow down the process of degeneration and thwart the crony socialists somewhat.

    Thats why I will vote for him and hope others do also. Look at what Obama has done in only 8 years. Hillary will only speed up that process. Small businesses simply cannot withstand Hillary's regulatory onslaught and spending proposals.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 6 months ago
      If $15 minwage comes lots of businesses will break the law. If employees are socialist shills they will go jobless because businesses will blackball them. They will never work again and will likely blame greedy businesses. Law breaking will overwhelm the feds and the states will not go along except in socialist areas : DC, NY, CA. If you are doing business there, you should already be setting up business elsewhere. Don't just stand there and let the statists run over you and steal your assets. Leave it as you found it.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
        I left CA a long time ago. I came to Nevada, which "used" to be more like the wild west. Now its gotten much more socialistic, and I am indeed looking around for other places. Utah is close to here and although its run by Mormons, I could fit in there better than I can here now.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 6 months ago
          I did the same thing in 1989 moving to Phoenix from LA. Phoenix was a free market delight at that time, at least in comparison to LA. I left AZ for a long term consulting engagement in 1991. By the time I retiurned in 1999, it had been infiltrated and no longer resembled the place I had enjoyed.
          I have been considering a road trip to rural Utah this winter to consider its long term suitability for residence.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
            Good plan. Utah might be like going back to a more freedom oriented time. Texas MIGHT be good too. They did elect Cruz who can at least spell CONSTITUTION.
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 6 months ago
      And mandatory maternity leave is really going to help that...

      What specific regulations has Trump vowed to cut back on? He's made generalizations, but nothing specific. Will Hillary continue our stagnation - even to the point of a recession? I believe she will. But punishing businesses for leaving the United States is going to help? I don't think so.

      What we need is to lower corporate income taxes. We need to lower personal income taxes. And most of all we need to trim the government budget - drastically. We need to come together as a nation and understand that we can not spend our way into prosperity as the Democrats would have us believe. Infrastructure spending does not drive innovation nor does it drive business - unless you are a crony road construction firm. True economic growth comes when new businesses are free to form and bring their ideas to customers and when existing businesses aren't so burdened by red tape that they have to raise their prices to compensate!

      And do you want to know the single word I didn't hear mentioned even once at the debates? Constitution We all knew Hillary wants nothing to do with it, but this is why I agreed with Ted Cruz in his Republican Convention speech and why Donald threw such a fit about it: he doesn't care about the Constitution.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
        There are definitely things I DONT like about Trump. His idea of import tariffs to discourage importation from china is a bad idea, which I think he never would get through congress anyway and therefore just discount it. I DO think he will get better two-way trade deals with these countries however.

        Trump does want to reduce corporate income taxes. He might actually get that through, which will help business a lot. He probably also will repatriate the money our businesses have out of the country by offering "deals".

        The word "constitution" seems to be lost on the american people, except when used to guarantee black "rights". Not much we can do about that.

        I do think that Trump will be more aggressive on cutting spending. He does that every day in his business and it would carry over to government I think.

        Cruz is a constitutionalist, and thats good. I hope he can influence things in the government in the future. He just doesnt have what it takes to be president, though, at least in my humble opinion at this time in our country.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 6 months ago
        I don't know that Trump doesn't care about the Constitution as much as he just don't know it like an attorney or a professional politician might. (Too many of them don't also)
        He'll leave the laws to advisors to tell him what he can or can't do I expect and he'll get the businesses of the country rolling again. I think Trump, like many Americans, feel that those who 'know' the Constitution are lawyers and they are the ones who have helped to ruin this country.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 6 months ago
          Have you heard him mention it even once in a public speech? One doesn't have to understand everything about it to revere it and hold it as the source of freedom and law in this land. But to not even mention it in public speeches and to get angry and incite your followers when a defeated political opponent tells voters to support someone who will uphold the Constitution?

          Yes, I agree that the lawyers and judges have done much to undermine the original intent of the Constitution. They flatly ignore the "enumerated powers" portion of the Constitution and justify it using the progressive expansion of government.
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
          • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 6 months ago
            No B-man, I can't say that I have heard him mention the Constitution. But then other than Cruz and Carly I don't recall who else did either.
            Still, its mostly a binary choice at this point. Gary Johnson is going backwards. So between HRC and DT, I'll go with the one who has signed the front of paychecks his whole career. :)
            Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
            • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 6 months ago
              "But then other than Cruz and Carly I don't recall who else did either."

              And that is the greatest tragedy of this election. No one cares about the Constitution and that its entire purpose is to protect natural rights - including the two major candidates vying for the highest honor in this land despite the fact that their primary Oath of Office states that they pledge to uphold the Constitution, defend, and protect it. How can they defend and protect something they won't even talk about?
              Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 6 months ago
    I share the disgust, frustration, anger and whatever other descriptions one might have, but so what are people here saying - that our govt is so broken that it is better to let it collapse than organize ( a la Tea Party, State's Convention, etc) to work to turn it around ?
    A.S. is terrific - as fiction. If the U.S. were to collapse the world would end. Literally, imo.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
    • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
      Think about what a collapse really would be like. The entitled people by the millions would riot in the streets, looting would be rampant, the items you expect to find easily in stores would be hard to find, the $$ would be worthless, and trading would be difficult.

      The rich, as in other statist countries, would get first shot at whatever was made, and would find ways to use whatever government was left to protect them. The so called 1% would do fine.

      Check out Venezuela. That is our future.
      Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
      • Posted by Bethesda-gal 7 years, 6 months ago
        Oh, I have thought about it.
        We're not preppers, but I think about it frequently. And imo you paint a far too rosy view. Venezuela is mild to what would happen if the U.S. imploded. There would be no more 'good cop' in the entire world ! Can you say "caliphate" ? With no military that could stop it ? Plus, a real implosion also means no infrustructure - power, water, gas pumps, grocery stores. It will be post- Apocalyptic without an apocolypse. So unless the 1% hasvtheir own self-sustaining reinforced castle village with weapons amassed beyond imagination, even they will not escape. That's why A.S. is a terrific fictional vehicle, but unless John Galt can discover the cloaking technology to keep it secret, none of us will escape unscathed.
        Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
        • Posted by term2 7 years, 6 months ago
          I agree. Defense would be highest priority. Cheapest defense is hiding in plain sight. But it's hard to do that and live a reasonable life without attracting attention
          Reply | Mark as read | Parent | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by Owlsrayne 7 years, 6 months ago
    I will vote in November. I internet search about the Electoral College and found out that who makes up the College got me very worried about this election. If Hillary could buy off the Electors it would make her Prez. I rather the Prez be elected by Popular vote instead by electors and get rid of the 12th Amendment which created the Elector College.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by a59430802sojourner 7 years, 6 months ago
    I have shrugged as far as i can. I would be very happy to shrug further, if there was a place to shrug, like Gault's Gulch! However, there is only one way i can see of hopefully preventing MY demise is to vote for DT.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  
  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 6 months ago
    Here are the choices, and the outcomes: Hillary, supported by the globalists and big money elite gets elected, and either continues, like Obama, to find her way around Congress, or with the help of the media shames the Congress into doing her bidding, with the result being the end of liberty and any opportunity to shrug; Trump gets elected, and worst case makes a mess of things, even with the best of intentions, but personal liberty remains, including the ability to shrug. Vote for a third party, as you choose, but it will be a vote of conscience with no meaningful result, as a Hillary victory will make that choice extremely unlikely in the future.
    Reply | Mark as read | Best of... | Permalink  

FORMATTING HELP

  • Comment hidden. Undo