Ayn Rand was an Illegal Immigrant

Posted by JohnConnor352 5 years, 9 months ago to Politics
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Can anyone who staunchly opposes greatly increasing the numbers of immigrants allowed in here legally (including barring those who came illegally to have a path to citizenship) please respond to this article?

It is a few years old, but applies more even now than then.
SOURCE URL: http://reason.com/archives/2012/02/14/ayn-rand-was-an-illegal-immigrant


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  • Posted by $ jbrenner 5 years, 9 months ago
    I was told by Michael A. that Reason Magazine, and Shikha Dalmia in particular, were not credible on the subject of Ayn Rand and her immigration status when I brought this same subject up several years ago when this article first came out.
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    • Posted by ewv 5 years, 9 months ago
      The article has a distorted sensationalist spin, in full context-dropping mode. trying to equate Ayn Rand to the illegals of today in the usual false alternative of conservatives vs the left in immigration policy.

      Ayn Rand did what she had to to escape a deadly totalitarian dictatorship and bypass mindless bureaucrats in the way, but she didn't "lie and bend every rule to gain entry" with "perjury" and the distorted tale from a 1984 speculative biography with no credibility -- and which doesn't mention the distorted story the article claims it does.

      Ayn Rand knew she would be killed by the Soviets for her outspoken ideas and longed to come to America to make her own way, living by her own means under political freedom. Her family had been in contact with other family members in Chicago who had emigrated to the US decades before, and she arranged to visit them.

      Her family found that the Soviet dictatorship was not allowing people to leave permanently if at all. The family in Chicago provided an affidavit that she would stay with them and that they would guarantee to finance her, which they did. After graduating from college as a history major she had enrolled in a Russian film production school to learn how to write scripts, and to get out of the country she had to tell the Soviets that she would return after researching the American film industry, which the Chicago family was associated with. That got her a six month passport, which was enough to get out of the Soviet Union.

      She knew that she would possibly not be able to remain permanently in the US, at least at first, and anticipated possibly having to go to Canada and trying again later. As she left her family in Russia in early 1926 she had expected that the Soviet regime would not last, that she would be returning to visit her family, and that she would eventually be able to bring her whole family to the US after establishing herself and becoming self-sufficient.

      In order to get into the US she had to obtain a visa from the US consulate in Latvia, which was still an independent country but pandering to the Soviets out of fear of being taken over. Upon arriving she learned that many White Russians were trying to permanently emigrate and were being denied. She had expected that if she couldn't get a visa for the US at all she would slip out out into Europe to avoid being forced back to Russia, but found that potential emigres were being closely guarded and she would not be able to do that.

      It was not illegal to immigrate into the US, and the illegality under the Russian communists was irrelevant, but the bureaucrats were blocking those with permanent intentions. While talking to the agent in the US consulate, trying to convince him that she was just visiting in Chicago -- which she would have if necessary -- and without mentioning her longer term intentions, she noticed that the official paperwork falsely stated that she had a fiance in America, which record she had to counter and truthfully deny. A man had proposed to her in Russia, and in order to block the bureaucratic land-mine it occurred to her to tell the agent that she was coming back to him. She was one of the few able to get out at that time. On the way to the ship in France she turned 21 years of age.

      She obtained the renewals she had to in the US, and did not have to go to Canada. There is no evidence that she married Frank O'Connor just to become a citizen, quite the contrary. She married Frank in 1929 and 2 1/2 months later got her green card, becoming a citizen in 1931. Obviously it would have made sense to time the wedding appropriately rather than ask for trouble with bureaucracy. Under the circumstances Ayn Rand would have had a right to do much more to save herself from the communist dictatorship and the mindless bureaucrats judging people by "intent".

      None of this had anything to do with today's immigrants who support welfare statism or worse, with the expectation of government support in whole or in part, and illegally coming with the complicity of US collectivists looking to turn the US into a third world culture with imported votes to help pull it off.

      Ayn Rand always supported the right to immigrate and to escape dictatorship in order to live an independent life in a free society. She opposed the notion of statist economic protectionism for "jobs" to block immigration, but did not support a cultural invasion to turn the US into a third world country with guaranteed welfare as enticement to illiterates demanding a collectivist government, sprinkled with terrorists accelerating the process.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
      Thanks I hadn't read all the way down. The only thing Interesting is someone said Reason was Libertarian site. No wonder their attacking after the exposure of their candidates as left wingers.
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      • Posted by slfisher 5 years, 9 months ago
        What do you see as the distinction between Objectivist and Libertarian?
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        • Posted by 5 years, 9 months ago
          This was not addressed to me, but I'll reap d with my own theory.

          It is that libertarians take " non-initiation of the use of force" as their primary philosophical axiom. Objectivism recognizes that this is not an axiom and must be proven itself separately. The end result of this is that libertarianism does not see any action that does not harm someone else is unethical, while objectivism sees wasting your life in an opium den as unethical.
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        • -1
          Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
          Lessone One begins again.

          Libertarianism is a political and collective control belief system based on political philosophy.

          Objectivism is a system that allows and assists any individual to assess any belief system or any other, belief system be it political, religious, commercial, secular, moral or other wise - giveit an honest appraisal and determine it's validity or lack thereof, in short it's worth. The question asked and answered is it useful - comes after testing. The only grader or evaluator is the individual thinker using observation and testing.

          First Law - Become conscious of yourself and your ability to think and reason.

          Second Law - Continually observe the nature of all observed with two question in mind. Is it Useful or could it be useful?

          Third Law Having worked out a system of morals, values, standards, and ethics apply it to the outcome of anything discovered under the 2nd Law.

          Try it on any belief system especially the control systems of the collectives as a 'thing' whose nature can be studied and determined.

          What follows is in two parts.

          Did you follow what you determined to be true

          Or what you determined to be false..


          A side I'm now thinking about is the morality of using one choice to destroy the other choice and so far I have no moral problem assuming they are the only current choices, the act changes the parameters and the changed parameters will allow an ultimate win.

          Evil versus flawed would be an example as it will allow the rejection of flawed at a later time while the reverse argues against that ability.

          It also required the reverse of standard thinking and not using the greater evils definitions to determine the outcome.

          A project under construction....
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  • Posted by coaldigger 5 years, 9 months ago
    "Give me your tired, poor.
    Your huddled masses, yearning to breath free,
    The wretched refuse of your teeming shore,
    Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
    I lift my lamp beside the golden door."

    This made us great because it gave us cheap labor looking for opportunity and willing to sacrifice the present for a better future for themselves and their families. This does not work in a welfare state where we attract more moochers and those that do not contribute more than they take. It is also difficult to bar those that have elected to be our enemy as opposed to refugees from a state that coerces its people to act in a hostile manner to us. Our immigration policies are out of date and do not reflect current conditions. As long as we refuse to address the issues honestly and revise these laws to work in the best interest of the country and the immigrants we will have a problem. We have made immigration an emotional issue for political purposes without any thought of how it should work within today's conditions.
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    • Posted by Maritimus 5 years, 9 months ago
      A couple of observations.
      Our immigration laws, outdated or not, are just useless pieces of paper. For generations, by now, the government refuses to implement them.
      That in turn reflects deep seated differences among very vocal advocates of the various issues involved, with no prevailing fundamental philosophy underlying the immigration law suitable to our times.
      That in turn reflects that vast groups of people think of themselves as hyphenated Americans, letting the melting pot freeze.
      That in turn reflects the divisive efforts of many politician touting "diversity" as a more fundamental value than American unity.
      That in turn reflects a long process, which started with the ascendance of the "progressives" (crypto sympathizers of various brands of collectivist ideologies - socialist, communist or fascist), the initiators of irrational and utopian ideas about governing philosophy and deniers of the primacy of the Constitution.
      That in turn reflects an ongoing process, starting with the poor parenting by the so called greatest generation, as an initial manifestation of that process, which a cold hearted scientific mind has no choice but to describe as a DECAY.
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 5 years, 9 months ago
      Exactly right! Exactly!
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      • Posted by $ puzzlelady 5 years, 9 months ago
        Agreed. Consider, though, the progression from a sparsely populated land to which any boatload of people could come to seek freedom and a continent of free natural resources, to more and more immigrants piling in until population pressures and demands began to crowd each other so that those already here would begin to keep newcomers out to protect their own advantages. Make rules and red tape to limit new arrivals so as not to have to share what the existing settlers had appropriated and built.

        Population density forces limits and restrictions, the way blowing air into a balloon eventually stretches it to the breaking point. By then the new world starts replicating the practices of the old countries, repeating the power struggles, repressions, ideologies that had failed before and had given rise to the move to new territories, and the cycle repeats. Only there is no more new world to escape to. We have to invent an accommodation among all the individuals who still aspire to the founding principles within an ever more deteriorating culture.

        It needs to be said, though, that more immigrants do not mean more unemployment. They actually stimulate more jobs to service and supply the extra population. They can enrich the culture with new creativity and skills. Eliminate the welfare state, and all will need to earn their own keep. People not habituated to a paternalistic government will actually take pride in their own productivity, the classic “work ethic”. “Find a need and fill it” is still the best motivator for initiative and inventiveness. New immigrants are a valuable resource to attain that goal.
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        • Posted by $ Thoritsu 5 years, 9 months ago
          Do you think there is a correlation between population density and reasonable laws? Is there an underlying, consistent philosophy though?
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          • Posted by $ puzzlelady 5 years, 9 months ago
            America came closest to it in human civilization with its Constitution and the principle of all men created equal (meaning all individuals having equal rights). The usual way humanity dealt with population density was with migration, invasion, conquest, genocide and the occasional fortuitous plague. Winner take all, survival of the fiercest. We are not far out of the stages of savagery and barbarism in human evolution. The founding American values--don't let them go.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 9 months ago
      Times have changed, however. At that time, we had a labor shortage. We had a colonist shortage. We needed more people. That situation doesn't exist any more.

      The other problem is that the people of those times were coming to America because of the promise of a new life free from tyranny, where they could adopt American values. The people trying to come here now don't even want to be American and certainly don't want to adopt American values!

      I have no problem with an immigration policy that really reflects the needs of our current country. But what it is being used for right now is neither cheap labor nor the American ideal, but for votes. The Democrats want to change the voting demographics and create a slave state to support them. What else do you call the current situation with all the illegals?
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      • Posted by coaldigger 5 years, 9 months ago
        We still have a need for people to do the manual labor jobs that we don't do. The promise needs to be the same. If I am allowed to come to your country, I will not be a burden. I will obey your laws. I will become an American. You must promise me that I will not be abused. I will be protected under your law and I will be allowed the opportunity to improve myself and my family.

        People still come to and enrich America under these terms. Others are denied entry because of an unjust and shortsighted immigration law. If they are illegals, they are not fully protected and they have been taught that the laws do not mean anything. These people are victims of a corrupt system but they establish a baseline of illegal activity that escalates to human and drug trafficking which leads to violence and reaction. Under this cloud we get a steady stream of problem immigrants, terrorists, criminals and moochers. Bad laws always lead to massive problems and unintended consequences.
        The Democrat version of statist principles currently benefits most from this situation but if the Republicans can figure out how to gain this advantage they will in a heartbeat. All of our problems stem from a class of professional politicians that only care about their power and enrichment and a public that lets them get away with it. As long as we elect POLITICIANS to office this will only get worse. They and their cronies know this and they ALL will gang up to prevent anyone, not one of them from gaining access to power and revealing all the dirt behind the curtain.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 9 months ago
          "We still have a need for people to do the manual labor jobs that we don't do."

          We have a staggering unemployment rate right now - about 15% - and it's even higher the lower down the education scale you go. We have the people - what we don't have are the laws which allow them to work for what they are worth. Their skillsets aren't worth more than $5/hr, yet minimum wage laws insist that we pay them double that - and provide healthcare benefits!

          "If I am allowed to come to your country, I will not be a burden. I will obey your laws. I will become an American. You must promise me that I will not be abused. I will be protected under your law and I will be allowed the opportunity to improve myself and my family."

          Yes! 100% Yes! The problem, however, is that the majority of immigrants we have now aren't interested in this. They don't want to become Americans.

          "Others are denied entry because of an unjust and shortsighted immigration law."

          Please detail what portions of our current system you see being problematic. I will probably agree, I just want details rather than generalizations.
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          • Posted by coaldigger 5 years, 9 months ago
            There is no unemployment problem. Human labor is obtained from sources anywhere in the world that is priced consistently with its market value. Some jobs are obsolete and some jobs are done by machines. Denial of this causes the delay of some to develop new skills or offer their services at a lower price. Stupid laws that prevent or delay the necessary adjustments only add to the suffering.

            We are enabling those that do not want to speak our language and observe our laws and customs by bilingual schools, signs, etc and by being politically correct. If you don't want to be an American, don't come.

            The immigration laws are a patchwork of amendments that are knee-jerk reactions to every situation we have encountered since the early part of the 20th century, see link: http://www.fairus.org/facts/us_laws

            Rather than address modern immigration reform, we keep adding band-aids and playing political football. We want and need immigrants but it must be a win-win deal. We do not need people we feel sorry for. We don't need to take in people only because they have no other place to go. They do not need to be like us but they need to want to become like us.
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            • Posted by $ blarman 5 years, 9 months ago
              There is an unemployment problem in the US, but it is one caused by government regulation. That problem will not be solved by immigration policy. It will only be solved by allowing the free market to determine wages - not some farcical standard of living based on an entitlement mentality. But until we have solved it, it makes no sense to continue to import workers - especially because a vast majority end up on welfare or other subsistence programs or cause problems for law enforcement. To fix the plumbing, it requires turning off the water first.

              "We are enabling those that do not want to speak our language and observe our laws and customs by bilingual schools, signs, etc and by being politically correct. If you don't want to be an American, don't come."

              "We want and need immigrants but it must be a win-win deal. We do not need people we feel sorry for. We don't need to take in people only because they have no other place to go. They do not need to be like us but they need to want to become like us."

              Agreed and Agreed.

              "see link"

              Thanks for that. It was informative.
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              • Posted by coaldigger 5 years, 9 months ago
                The "free" market is at work despite government's efforts to defy it. It is like a water balloon, squeeze it here and it bulges there. Every effort to "manage" it only results in an adjustment. We need to stop giving money to people that don't earn it and fill the jobs with anyone that wants them from where ever they come from. End welfare and open the borders to those that want to be Americans.

                There is an Italian movie, "The Golden Door" that gruesomely portrays what first generation Europeans had to go through to get here and to stay. Their children fought WW II and built a great economy. My wife is a granddaughter and our children do not know or care where their relatives came from. The striving gives the country vitality and the reaching of a comfortable place in society is a reward. We, and our schools, need to teach this as a virtue and make sure that every citizen has a basic understanding of Capitalism. Not doing so is and will continue to be our downfall.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years, 9 months ago
    One important thing about Rand...she just didn't sneak in, she made it right, spoke the language, assimilated and became a citizen.
    That is something immigration officials can not detect, nor can they track, never mind have the will to do anything when they over stay their visa's.
    Illegal immigrants that do not announce their presents, have no excuse and should be deported when caught. NEVER should we give them so much as a library card, never mind taxpayer services. There is no law that says everyone else in the world has the right to come here and their is nothing in our constitution that says we have to.

    To the bigger question: Should we increase the numbers of immigrants in this country...the rational answer is No. It would only cause more problems at the taxpayers expense. At least in my state, there is just not enough jobs to go around.
    I often wonder why anyone would want to come here as of late anyway because it's clear we about to become just as bad as the country they probably came from...maybe even worse.

    As for limited immigration, Vetted to the max, sure, our country has thrived upon individuals like that, they usually become among America's staunchest defenders.

    As for islam/muslims?...well they will have to grow up a bit first. They must gain a conscience and have sufficient self control, not to mention accept our laws the way they are and ask for no special treatment.
    Right now, We absolutely have no ability to vet these people out. It is imperative that we get it right. The confounding factor is that they are all taught to lie in their mystical book in an effort to conquer the non believer.
    So, until they can demonstrate they have reformed, gained a conscience and self control and wish to Become American...we can't let them in.
    Some liberal government creatures think that mere exposure to our culture would cause spontaneous awareness and therefore ascend into a conscious human being. That is just not so. Even if it did, it would take several generations to do that provided there was no pull from the world they came from. Never mind, the fact that the political and idiot-ilogical climate in western societies do not intend to allow or to empower, that to happen.
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    • Posted by mudirikwa 5 years, 9 months ago
      Muslims will accept your laws until they can switch over to sharia law as dictated by the Koran.

      Area by area, to cities, to states. Willing to wait until their numbers dominate.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years, 9 months ago
        And this is the problem...we can't trust them.
        Same goes for marxist, communist and socialist...they'll go along to get along but continue to secretly change things little by little using alinsky like tactics...they too, are not awake, and might never awaken just like muslims. This has been a problem for 8000 years in the only true division between us; conscience/no conscience; whether forms of conscience be fear of consequence or willful rational moral thought.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 9 months ago
          this lack of trustworthiness applies to all who see life
          as an "any means to the desired ends" affair. . there are
          zillions of these, and they lie and cheat until they win. -- j
          .
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          • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years, 9 months ago
            Yep and most find their way into governments...laughing although it's really SICK.
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            • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 9 months ago
              what was the old quote -- there's a sucker born
              every minute, and most vote D ... -- j
              .
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              • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years, 9 months ago
                That's what the organ grinder with the monkey said of his patrons...to which upon realizing the monkey was a pick pocket would often reply: screw monkey screw...swatting him away like a fly.

                I wonder if the liberals and progressives would obey that command seeing they have more in common with monkeys than with mankind.

                PS...I got that little tidbit from my Dad who grew up in Boston.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 9 months ago
      Just generally incorrect all around. Sorry I'm drained today and don't have the energy to refute.
      Immigration is good for an economy.
      Speaking "the language" is irrelevant to whether an immigrant is "doing it right" or not.
      Ellis Island didn't "vet to the max." We did just fine with those immigrants.
      Do you really trust a DMV employee equivalent to vet an immigrant?

      That's al I have the energy for. Off to happy hour and pizza.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 5 years, 9 months ago
        Speaking the language is not the issue here...and we didn't have a problem like today back in ellis island.

        No one today is qualified to properly vet anyone that wants to come here.
        Why the hell would you bring billions of moochers into our country, How the hell would that be good for the economy...these are not the days of our grandfathers...what worked then Does not apply now...it's a very different world.

        You didn't read the whole thing, people that have skills and a desire are good for our economy...not the creatures obobo and gang are letting in.
        Enjoy your pizza and give that some thought.
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      • Posted by jsw225 5 years, 9 months ago
        Immigration is good WHEN (AND ONLY WHEN) you have more jobs than people. But, like it is right now, the percentage of Americans working is at a 40 year low, immigration is bad for the economy.
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  • Posted by tdechaine 5 years, 9 months ago
    Immigration has been open through most of our history; Rand and millions others appropriately immigrated to the US.
    "Illegal" today is an issue because of the welfare state, and refugees are an issue because of terrorism. Eliminate the WS & terrorism, and require immigrants to assimilate and learn English, and there is no immigration problem.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 5 years, 9 months ago
    The days of Ayn Rand's entry to the USA and the illegals of today cannot be compared. During the first third of the 20th century, entry into this country was encouraged not discouraged. No one looked very hard at how people got in or became citizens. Among the various ethnic groups who entered, it was essential to "become American." They may have stayed with their people but they strove for citizenship, and their children were encouraged to do well in an American way and not be a "greenhorn." As the population swelled, immigration became more formalized and backgrounds were checked more closely. But not until the last quarter of the century did we have illegals coming in like a tsunami. The question arises today, is a country without borders, a country? This article presents a false alternative by making a false equivalency. While I'm in no position to write a well researched essay, I'll just leave it with this: For dozens of reasons, the world changed in 50 years since Rand's entry and it continues to change with perils unheard of during the latter part of the 19th and the first part of the 20th centuries. Those perils and considerations must be taken into account, especially when a wretched group of people wish to destroy America because of what they believe in their religion.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 5 years, 9 months ago
    If a Nazi soldier comes to your door and asks if you are hiding any jews (and your house is full of them), an objective morality would require you to lie to them, as totalitarian fascists do not deserve being treated any other way...treating the soviets or a corrupt American immigration system is no different...today's immigrants from the middle east of Muslim Islamic religion (an organizational front for totalitarian terrorists), who are taught never to be honest with infidels must be treated as such...you cannot "vet" anyone of that belief and expect anything else and, as such, do not let the barbarian inside the gate as Europe has done...
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  • Posted by chad 5 years, 9 months ago
    If America was truly a land of free people and wanted to have those who would be free who would be turned away? What rules do you suggest? Borders and countries are arbitrary inventions of tyranny to plot where it rules. If you try to keep people out what you are really doing is keeping people in.
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  • Posted by Eyecu2 5 years, 9 months ago
    Happy to.

    I am against all Illegals and additionally against ALL of Obama's immigration policies. Based on the fact that these immigrants nearly all receive some form of government assistance paid for by the US taxpayers.

    If we would end ALL government hand outs, my position would be very different. However as long as I am footing the bill (even if in a miniscule way). I say NO to all this.
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  • Posted by cksawyer 5 years, 9 months ago
    Thank you Coaldigger. THIS has always been the real problem in the contemporary immigration debate, not the immigrants, or even the legality of their entry. As is so frequently the case, government control is the fundamental cause of the problem it is trying to "solve" with more control.

    As a caveat, I have to add, that the very recent epidemic of religious and racial terrorism certainly adds a new layer of complexity to the issue
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  • Posted by Snoogoo 5 years, 9 months ago
    Or could you call her a "refugee"? Ayn Rand was Ayn Rand, what is the point to give her or anyone else for that matter a label that evokes a stereotype for some positive or negative sentiment. The problem with immigration policy is the sheer numbers make it incredibly difficult to judge each individual based on their own merit.
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    • Posted by roneida 5 years, 9 months ago
      Snoogo... True. How many single, female immigrants from Russia in Ms. Rand's time flew airliners into American buildings killing thousands, gassed civilians in Iraq, held Americans hostage for hundreds of days, ...it is impossible to compare today's obvious, plain threats to her time. The Communists were as bad as a threat as ISIS, but how many Rands have we seen from the ignorance and squalor of what used to be a civilized part of the world. ?? The enemy is the religion, NOT the race.
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    • Posted by mudirikwa 5 years, 9 months ago
      Exactly. She was a unique open-minded thinker. You cannot compare her to practically unschooled aliens. I have nothing against illegal aliens. Just those that are here to distribute drugs and promote crime to support their lifestyle.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 5 years, 9 months ago
    Interesting. Ayn Rand did what she needed to do, came here and worked hard. I have a friend who did the same, coming here alone at the age of 12. He's still working hard 35 years later.

    I'd love to have open borders. However, I have a problem with hose who either want to come and not assimilate or, taking it a step further, want to attack. Yeah...pesky details...
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  • Posted by johnpe1 5 years, 9 months ago
    we are not talking about murder, here. . we are talking
    about robbery. . entering the u.s. and sucking at the
    government teat illegally is robbery. . it is not a good
    idea to encourage people to do this.

    Rand did not do this. . she contributed by working
    her ass off to benefit herself, and by consequence,
    everyone else -- tremendously. . as I have heard
    her history, she maneuvered her travel visa into
    citizenship legally. . I am damned glad that she did! -- j

    p.s. to your question, we do not have the jobs for
    immigrants, right now. . the politicians have erased
    them and left welfare in their places.
    .
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
    There was a lead to an article by a female writer which led to another lead as her reference by another female writer which lead nowhere. In looking at the link I ran less than before.

    It's just a Libertarian attack on the philosophy of objectivism using subjective pie in the sky mystic fairy tails.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
    To make this one real simple PROVE IT! The last time this crap got on this site I traced down the only leads which went through some trash sites to something called Reason from one article to a second and BOTH failed to provide any proof except a story about a supposed video which no one could produce or show.

    So before anyone wastes there time on this garbage wait for the poster to prove it.
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    • Posted by 5 years, 9 months ago
      I HAVE A CAPS LOCK BUTTON TOO.

      Kidding aside, this is not a document to disparage Ayn Rand. It is an attempt to take away unfair stigmas from illegal aliens, as the opinion of the writers is that the law preventing their entry is unjust and therefore refusing to restrict ones one actons in response to the law is not unethical in itself
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
        Only if it's presented ethically. I'm constantly reaching for the button that says search for more information as I learned early on in this forum shooting your mouth off without solid facts gets a well earned response.

        That particular one I suspect is a trap brought out when needed or for some just waiting for the day you didn't wear steel soled jungle boots because -after all this is the desert..
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  • Posted by wiggys 5 years, 9 months ago
    I think we should be grateful that Ayn Rand was smart enough to do what she had to too stay here. If she did not stay here and went unnoticed living in Russia this site would not exist!!!!!!!!!
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
      May very well have been true but the accusation is stil as far as we know false and was knowling presented as a false hood. The people at Reason will have to live with that yellow journalism label until they do a Fonda and then I'll think about it. ... obectively.
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  • Posted by 5 years, 9 months ago
    Interesting. I did not consider questioning the validity of the source.
    I would ask, however, would such actions be immoral, if they were true? If so, why?
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 5 years, 9 months ago
      Doesn't matter you make a bull shit statement, and admit to not checking the source. The only immoral action is the question and the statement you posted a day ago. I'm not going through that gutter that was offered before just to say anyone that would print this garbage without checking the source is no objectivist and has no business here. For Shame for not checking our archives. For Shame.
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