Get ready to be called racists and gun-toting thugs again!

Posted by $ jbrenner 11 years, 8 months ago to News
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The couple who murdered two Las Vegas cops have been associated with swastikas and the "Don't Tread on Me" Gadsden flag. I like the Gadsden flag and support the 2nd amendment, but despise everything about Nazis. However, this story will be used to tar all of us. Just wait and see.
SOURCE URL: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/08/2-police-officers-shot-in-las-vegas/


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  • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 8 months ago
    Swastikas and Gadsden Flags don't even belong together. This is obvious lunacy. BUT Let them try to make that add up and paint us with the same insane brush.
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
      Of course, you're right, LetsShrug. It is lunacy that swastikas and Gadsden flags should be placed together. That is why it is convenient that they should use this incident to paint us with the same insane brush.
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      • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 8 months ago
        Of course they will, they're evil. The lobotimized sheep will buy into it, as they already have, the rest of us will know the truth, as we already do...and so it goes. I say ignore them and let them play their wicked games without our jumping up and down. This doesn't warrant a reaction, it has no foundation to the truth of things. Waste of effort.
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        • Posted by richrobinson 11 years, 8 months ago
          There should be a reaction every time false accusations are made. No need to shout or get hysterical. One of the most impressive things about Ayn Rand is how she calmly and intelligently answered stupid attack style questions. I think that technique is very effective.
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        • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
          I suppose that no reaction is the proper reaction. However, if I were to become too dull to recognize evil for what it is, I would be a lesser man.
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          • Posted by LetsShrug 11 years, 8 months ago
            You'd be a lobotomized sheep. Of course WE will recognize evil, we know what it is and what it sounds like, but when others DON'T recognize it and prove themselves stupid don't waste time on them, leave them alone. (AR said that :))
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    • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
      Yeah, but American Neo-Nazis are crazy like that. Besides, the Gadsden Flag is popular among all right-wing groups, even the extremist ones.
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      • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
        "extremist right-wing groups" is an oxymoron.

        The Gadsden Flag should be popular among all groups, when you think about it: "Don't tread on me". Can't you see that being invoked by pro-gay-marriage groups?


        I remember the poem, "Invictus", which I liked... until Tim McVeigh forever tainted it before his execution.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 11 years, 8 months ago
        Yes, and swastika has been a popular symbol in India and China for millenia - are we to make any implications from that?...
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        • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 8 months ago
          I remember a used bookstore being picketed by some morons because they had an old book by Rudyard Kipling that was adorned with what looked like swastikas. This was a common adornment in India and had nothing to do with Nazi's, but these people couldn't be told differently. They wouldn't leave until the owner took the book down.
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          • Posted by strugatsky 11 years, 8 months ago
            And the Red Star has been used by the Soviets and the Chinese; guess we shouldn't have it on our aircraft. Come to think of it, the Nazi's breathed air - would it be good if the libtards voluntarily gave up breathing air? Now, that would be a start of a new and bright future!
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
            IIRC, from an old episode of "Kolchak: the Night Stalker"... the Indian swastika's "arms" go the other way...

            At 2:30 they explain the swastikas seen earlier.
            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbNwPdfO...
            (this episode is on Youtube in six parts... along with a lot of other episodes... I used to love this tv show... but I digress...)
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            • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 8 months ago
              Yes, I loved that show as well. Too bad it got cancelled after only one season. I remember reading something about this a while ago. I'm not sure that the Indian design had any real front or rear direction, it was used either way based on aesthetic concerns. The Nazi's on the other hand, definitely had a right way and a wrong way.
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              • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
                I gotta stop liking tv shows. I like The Nightstalker, it gets canceled. I like Firefly, and it gets canceled. It's like the networks use me as a negative barometer...
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  • Posted by ISank 11 years, 8 months ago
    I just saw the headline on my local paper saying those murderers " did not like the government" and I thought seriously ...bravo....way to paint anyone who complains about the looters are now equated with cop shooters.
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    • Posted by richrobinson 11 years, 8 months ago
      A lot of people don't like the government. What a terrible headline. I guess it shows without question where their political beliefs are.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 8 months ago
        Who claims to like the gov't? Most people think the gov't is excessive except for a handful of programs they like: paying for grandma's nursing home, subsidized loans for college, ability to fight wars around the world for various reasons, an SBIR grant funding a new project at their business, a massive prison system, amazing research to search for life on Europa, feeding poor school children so they can focus on learning.

        Almost _everyone_ says they oppose gov't. Sometimes they (usually politicians) do it sanctimoniously: "Am I a rare righteous person willing to stand up to gov't spending? [except for all the programs I benefit from]." The joke goes that we want to cut gov't, but not programs that affect the children, the elderly, or the military, i.e. almost all spending.
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        • Posted by Temlakos 11 years, 8 months ago
          Who claims to like the government? Those on the government dole, that's who.

          This whole thing's a setup. Putting lovers of liberty together with oppressors.

          Those two tried to infiltrate the Bundy protest. The crowd's own marshals showed them the door. But I wonder whether anyone suspected what I suspect they were: government operatives.
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  • Posted by Robbie53024 11 years, 8 months ago
    Yes, they are starting to do so. Just saw a couple of articles about how these two were at the Bundy ranch (which will probably give the feds whatever "probable cause" they think they need - if they even bother to establish PC anymore - to get warrants to investigate everyone else who was there, in the interest of "safety" and "preventing another mass murder."
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  • Posted by JCLanier 11 years, 8 months ago
    I am always amazed at how extreme interpretation can be. Those who are anti-guns will construe this to their every advantage... It's like the difference (night and day) between watching the same topic on MSNBC and FOX news... Totally different perspectives.

    I am concerned about all the noise the anti- second amendment side cries out in the name of all that is good and decent, etc. We need to defend our rights by speaking up and taking a stand whenever the occasion presents itself. But coming from the right side of the gun issue is somehow perceived as a "shoot em up bang, bang" type person with almost evil overtones... All I can say is that I will keep my gun legally or not. Period.
    JC
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  • Posted by BambiB 11 years, 8 months ago
    Just saw a bit that "linked" these two to the militia who went down to stand off the Federal thugs at the Bundy ranch. So, by association, anyone who believes the Federal Government should stick to its CONSTITUTIONAL authority (Bundy) is now "racist" (because Bunday said words to the effect that blacks aren't much better off today, sitting around collecting welfare than they were under slavery) and "cop killers" (because these two who killed a couple of cops agreed with Bundy).
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  • Posted by starguy 11 years, 8 months ago
    Swastika = Nazi symbol
    Nazi = National SOCIALIST Party
    Nohting to do with my point of view. Sorry, libtards.

    The bat-spit crazy liberals are just plain deluded...again.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 8 months ago
    Normal people won't try to associate you with cold blooded murderers. It's only people who get paid to write about ideology for mass consumption.
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
      But normal has been redefined such that we are no longer normal, and what traditionally had been considered bizarre is now the new normal. Lou Reed said "Take a walk on the wild side." I wonder what he would think were he still alive.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 11 years, 8 months ago
        Yes.
        The protagonists in the AS and The Fountainhead were not normal. Normal is fine, but it's over-rated.

        This is my favorite thing about the US. It's far from perfect, but when someone says, "you're doing something abnormal or totally different", the average American has a more positive attitude on first hearing that than most people around the world. People are intelligent and free-thinking around the world, but the _first_ reaction to someone doing something abnormal is more positive in America.

        I know it needs to become more so, but it's pretty good now compared to most other places.
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  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
    "along the lines of militia and white supremacists"

    As they left swastikas on one of the bodies, that makes them left wing and not at all philosophically compatible with the militia movement in the U.S.

    The swastikas would be a support of Nazism, a left-wing ideology...

    But notice how they associate "militias" with "white supremacists". That association is made in the mind of the "authorities".
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    • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
      I indeed did notice "how they associate 'militias' with 'white supremacists'. That association is made in the mind of the 'authorities'." That is why I posted this.
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    • -3
      Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
      Nazism was right-wing...
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      • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
        Nazism was socialist.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 11 years, 8 months ago
          ummmmmmm .... the Nazis were called national
          socialists, but did they not operate like fascists,
          "letting" the private sector continue to own the means
          of production, but directing the operations centrally?

          "Nazism may be considered a subset of Fascism,
          with all Nazis being Fascists..."
          -- http://www.fact-index.com/n/na/nazism.ht...
          and our current administration is operating this way,
          directing operations centrally. leftists.

          please note that I am NOT calling the current
          folks Nazi -- just fascist. -- j



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          • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
            I am not going to disagree with the fascist label for Nazism. Socialism obviously is in the name of the Nazi abbreviation. The BO administration is making clear how little of a difference there is between socialism and fascism.
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            • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
              Actually, the word "Nazi" is just shorthand for "National" according to its German pronunciation (Natsional).

              From Wikipedia:
              ---
              "The full name of Adolf Hitler's party was Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei (National Socialist German Workers' Party). The shorthand Nazi was formed from the first two syllables of the German pronunciation of the word "national" (IPA: [na-tsi̯-o-ˈnaːl])."
              ---
              http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
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              • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
                If you would read your own comment, Maphesdus, you see that it even includes the word "socialist" in there. If you want an example of socialism, they aren't too hard to find.
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        • -2
          Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
          Socialism itself is bipartisan. Also, the Nazis weren't just Socialists, they were NATIONAL Socialists. Nationalism is right-wing.
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          • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
            Socialism is left-wing. All collectivist philosophies are.
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            • Posted by $ Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
              Define "collectivist."
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              • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
                Social philosophy that places the whole at greater importance than the individual.

                Spock summed up the collectivist philosophy in Star Drek II: The Wrath of What'sisname:

                Spock: "That is wise. Were I to invoke logic, however, logic clearly dictates that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few. "
                (never have I ever hated any Star Trek villain as much as I hated Spock for uttering that blasphemy).

                And the evil within the collectivist philosophy is that it permits any unspeakable horror, any insane injustice to be perpetrated on the few, or the one, in the name of the collective, the state, the "public good".

                (Aside: My favorite Star Drek movie was "Star Drek IV: Spock Saves the Whales"... Not because it was so entertaining, but because Spock's mommy sets things right:

                " Amanda: Spock, does the good of the many out weigh the good of the one?

                "Spock: I would accept that as an axiom.

                "Amanda: Then you stand here alive because of a mistake made by your flawed, feeling, human friends. They have sacrificed their futures because they believed that the good of the one - you - was more important to them. "

                This is where true civilization first began.
                Human life is not additive.

                Btw, Star Trek IV contains some objectivist, or at least Randian, philosophy. The computer testing Spock asks:

                Vulcan Computer: "What was Kiri-Kin-Tha's first law of metaphysics?"

                And Spock answers:
                Spock: "Nothing unreal exists."
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                • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
                  Alright, fair enough. But what makes you think that collectivist mentality is exclusive to the political left?
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                  • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
                    Not the political left... the philosophical left. The political left is populated by the philosophical left.

                    Left side of spectrum - total collectivist control. Think "Anthem".

                    Right side of spectrum - anarchy. Total individualism. Every man for himself.

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                    • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
                      ...Where on earth did you get such a screwy definition for left and right?
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                      • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
                        It's not screwy. It's far more rational and consistent than the "political" spectrum I was taught in highschool, with collectivists on the far left and collectivists on the far right.

                        It began with the Pournelle axes, with one axis subsequently being dropped.

                        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pournelle_...

                        The wikipedia entry has the chart reversed left-right from the one I saw in Pournelle's book.
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          • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
            It is fascism that can be either right or left wing, although the line between socialism and fascism is being blurred by the Obama administration.
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            • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
              Wrong. You obviously have no idea what you're talking about. Here's an essay you might want to read:

              "Left-Wing Communism: an Infantile Disorder," by Vladimir Lenin
              https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/w...
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              • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
                Maphesdus, as usual you are wrong, and I no longer want to continue having this discussion.
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                • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
                  I just posted an essay written by Vladimir Lenin himself in which he complains about Leftists and Liberals. The only logical conclusion that can be drawn from that is that Lenin was neither a Liberal nor a Leftist, otherwise he would not complain about them. This utterly refutes your claim that Socialism is inherently part of the political left. Are you really going to sit there and deny such strong evidence as this?
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                  • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
                    Yes, I will. Lenin's biggest problem with leftists and liberals was that socialism allows someone to willingly choose collectivism, whereas communism uses force to ensure collectivism. Lenin was not willing to wait for that, and given his objectives, he didn't have time to wait. He needed to take bold action, and he did.
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                    • Posted by Maphesdus 11 years, 8 months ago
                      Right, and I agree with you on that point, but that doesn't disprove my assertion that Socialism is bipartisan, and therefore can manifest on the political right just as easily as it can on the political left.
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            • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
              I disagree; fascism is the same as communism and socialism; the collective takes precedent over the individual, whether you call the collective "the state" or "the people".
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              • Posted by $ 11 years, 8 months ago
                Fascism and communism use direct force. Socialism is much more indirect. That's the main difference. Socialism requires the sanction of the victim.
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                • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
                  So you're saying socialism is an abstract talking point that can never ever exist. Or can only exist briefly between social states, as anarchy does.
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      • Posted by $ brd76 11 years, 8 months ago
        There exists no fact to base this argument upon. Repeating something one has heard without applying reason or logic to the idea is ignorant.
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        • Posted by Hiraghm 11 years, 8 months ago
          I about went off at work last night. This left-winger (who happens to otherwise be a rather nice, humorous guy) got on his typically left-wing condescending high-horse about this. When I came into the break room, he was saying, "I'm tired of right-wing terrorists telling us" ... I tried to break in, saying, "How do you like *working* with a right-wing terrorist" before I knew he was talking about this incident.

          But, he wouldn't engage, and was not in the break room when I got back with my drink. While we've yet to butt heads, I think he realizes that he'd get his rear handed to him debating me on such issues. He's like the teachers who go into the profession to be the wisest and most powerful person in the room.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 11 years, 8 months ago
    Swastikas (Nazis) were actually socialists... which is far left of center... the Gadsden flag is representative of right of center... and the couple had pictures of themselves on Facebook dressed up like the Joker and a henchman of some type (anarchists)... seems to be a bit of a nutball with an identity crisis more than anything else. But you are right, the media is going to say they were died-in-the-wool Tea Partiers.

    By the way, any reported-word on the mention/rumors that a concealed-carry civilian first shot one of the assailants in Walmart that led to their giving up and committing suicide?
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    • Posted by Kittyhawk 11 years, 8 months ago
      The Joker and a henchman are symbols of anarchism? I'm not aware of that. As anarchy is based on the non-aggression principle, it would be very contradictory. V from V for Vendetta is a more popular symbol from what I've seen, but he's certainly not a henchman, more of a freedom fighter defending himself and others against a corrupt and brutal government.
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