Army Values
Posted by cadalyyn 8 years, 11 months ago to Government
Hi all! I'm new here and this is my first post, so go easy on me haha. Recently I was at my boyfriend's basic training graduation and had an interesting thought.
What is an objectivist's view of army values? Since they believe in duty to the country and their fellow soldier, and more like that, I was just curious about what objectivist would think of this. I wasn't sure if because it was their jobs, if that changed anything.
Obviously, I support the military and am thankful for all of their sacrifices. But how well would someone who shares an objectivist view point fit in the military? Again, first post and I don't know a ton about Objectivism, so go easy on me haha.
What is an objectivist's view of army values? Since they believe in duty to the country and their fellow soldier, and more like that, I was just curious about what objectivist would think of this. I wasn't sure if because it was their jobs, if that changed anything.
Obviously, I support the military and am thankful for all of their sacrifices. But how well would someone who shares an objectivist view point fit in the military? Again, first post and I don't know a ton about Objectivism, so go easy on me haha.
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That is an excellent point! I hadn't thought of that before. Thank you for pointing it out
the only earthly life form which is eternal. -- j
.
Amen BT
I can say that the military job is a stretch because of the
change in missions over the past 70 years. . the last war
which was "fought right" was ww2. . korea went to a
stalemate; nam was a total mess, etc. . using the military
for nation-building is ridiculous. . but the subject is values.
the people in the voluntary military are almost all super
and wonderful and dedicated smart folks who deserve
better. . what they get is short shrift, compared with
what they give. . they have solid u.s. values which are
sooooooooo rare in the nation, these days. . objectivists'
values are very similar, strong and rational -- just aimed
at narrower goals. . honesty, integrity, devotion to excellence --
these coincide directly with objectivism. . many objectivists,
however, cannot accept military missions like nation-
building and "illicit wars" like Iraq. . many would have to
resign their commissions, or terminate their enlistments,
over such differences.
my work involved a little over 4 years active, including
southeast asia, in the strategic air command. . after that,
I worked with the civil air patrol in training kids and looking
for downed aircraft stateside. . I accepted the vietnam
mission, since my 3 degrees were financed by the usaf
connection, and my manhattan project engineering
career was supported by it. . training kids was always a
delight. . searching for general aviation crashes was a
legitimate mission. . I stuck with it for 28 years.
see what I mean? . the best of luck always, cadalyyn,
and may the force of rational excellence be with you! -- john
.
As for today...like anything else, situations change. With "transgender equality" (gag) being all the rage...I feel that our military is somewhat off track, but could get back on with just a little nudge from the right folks.
Being former infantry, I can tell you that your fellow soldiers become like family. If a grenade was thrown into your house, would you be thinking about getting away, or about saving grandma and aunt Gladys? I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be thinking about trade, or looking at them as a stranger. It's the same in the military. Your buddies are close enough to you that you don't think about it when danger comes. It's not the same as when you're walking down a busy street, and something happens. In that situation, it's everyone for himself. Those who haven't been in the military have no idea about how close the relationships become between comrades in arms. It's difficult to explain, and it's something that's out of the ordinary. The one thing a soldier never forgets are the ones who didn't make it back home. Just one suggestion for you, though. Never look at military service as a "sacrifice." Look at it as an investment, where cost is no object.
Fairy tales start with once upon a time and end with happily ever after. The Army and Navy's start with Back in the old days (plural takes more than a day to get bragging and story telling rights.) The Air Force never quite gets started and has no ending. the CG is still in it's wading pool, So Back in the old days or old brown boot army and both finish up No Stuff It really happened that way!
The difference between the Army and Navy stories is the Army has a drier sense of humor.
What about the Marines?
The Marines. They have nothing like war, sea, and fairy tale stories, Anything said by the Gunny is Gospel.
There are exceptions but to see if they are authorized....ask a Gunny.
It just now occurs to me that the Air Force was never brought up despite the fact that the Marines has its own aviation wing.
So I shall decline from opining about "army values" and just bid you a war welcome to the Gulch.
That article might help you with the basics of the morality of a standing army.
Given that we (currently) have a volunteer military it is moral to choose to be in it. It is immoral how our country uses the military to invade and encroach on other countries instead of using our military to protect our citizens and the physical nation.
2. I'll submit that some people may benefit from the discipline they're under, but I couldn't hack it.
3. There are some orders a moral person must refuse to follow, and some enemies (of the state) he must refuse to fight. But since you have to give up the power to make those choices when you enlist, I don't believe a moral person can ever join up. (Except possibly during a major war that you know is morally right.) This goes for police service as well as the military.
My own take - The more Objectivist I become the less I appreciate the military. But, in the past I had a very high appreciation starting point. I am the first man in my family to not join the military. I am opposed to the application of government force, mainly because it is usually imposed improperly. Not enough room here to flesh this concept out, really. But, in short, I'm tied of things like our Army soldiers guarding opium fields in Afghanistan. I don't like us using drones to blow up weddings, killing children. The concept of the draft goes against Objectivism. The concept of GI, "government issue" doesn't sit well. But...I do have pride of our military. They are the greatest ever compiled. Many of those active in it hold strong, admirable patriotic intentions.
Just recently I saw that they are going to start putting women in front-line, ground-pounder action. I'm opposed to this and think it may be a reaction to the fact that 80% of the boys born in 2032 are projected to fall prey to autism. Hopefully, by then we'll have the robot army up and running.
Hope you find my answer entertaining, if not goofy...
Objectively speakiing the hypothetical contained a false premise. Two exceptions it was set up as a booby trap. It was an intentional fragging which still doesn't excuse the fire team, squad, or platoon leader that allowed it.
It does suggest who should have drawn the duty of jumping on the grenade.
I was speaking to my boyfriend, Steven, about Objectivism recently. Though he has not read any Ayn Rand, he seemed to know a bit about the Objectivism. He is in the army and seems to hold an unpopular view. For example, take this hypothetical question: "A grenade suddenly lands among you and your men, would you jump on it to save everyone else?"
Steven claims he would not. He quotes Patton and says, "The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his." He definitely still holds a "self-preservation" view in war. However, he has told me that the majority of other soldiers he has spoken to about this disagree with his view.
At least until Army Personnel in the Pentagon took over and screwed up everything. But then. the REMFs are in the Pentagon the Commander On the Ground be he Officer, Commissioned or Officer, Non-Commissioned is in charge.
REMF does not mean Rear Echelon Mother Feathers but it's close.
You have posed a good question. I will kick off-
as you observe the idea of sacrifice is contrary to Objectivism but each soldier -in a volunteer army- has freely agreed to a contract containing those values. There is a bit more to it such as that volunteers, let us assume they have Objectivist values, consider that there is a part to play, and this involves obeying orders from officers who have superior knowledge which requires actions to be performed too fast for convincing argument to be made to each individual soldier.