Rough Men
"We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" -- Winston Churchill
With the hatred of police, and police murders in the news I wonder how Gulchers feel about cops? I knw several and I found them to be exceedingly brave men, and dedicated to their jobs. But they are not usually mild-mannered Clark Kents. These are mostly men willing to confront and stand up to the bad guys, and being nice doesn't usually help. Sometimes they overstep their authority. But the bad cops in terms of those whose records are full of complaints are vastly in the minority. So...my fellow Gulchers, what is your take on the police. Haroes? Miscreants? Something in between?
With the hatred of police, and police murders in the news I wonder how Gulchers feel about cops? I knw several and I found them to be exceedingly brave men, and dedicated to their jobs. But they are not usually mild-mannered Clark Kents. These are mostly men willing to confront and stand up to the bad guys, and being nice doesn't usually help. Sometimes they overstep their authority. But the bad cops in terms of those whose records are full of complaints are vastly in the minority. So...my fellow Gulchers, what is your take on the police. Haroes? Miscreants? Something in between?
Only way to react to a secular progressive is turn and walk away. let them talk to a wall as any thick brick should . Plonk.
Are you nuts? Michael will take joy in answering you, and answering you, and answering you. You're no better, because you bait the bear. When dealing with Michael, who often has some excellent ideas, after two answers, no matter how provocative (he gets off on it) end the conversation or else this thread which is already so far off the subject you might as well be talking to a Panda, will go on for a decade.
You went on and on and people being released on DNA evidence, (which is likely only in crimes where there was aggression) and a lot of blow hard that I don't really get your point with acronyms I don't even know (certainly to show your expertise in the subject).
Since you got fixated on this point and already did the research, Save me the time and tell me which country actually locks up more people per capita than any other?
China for example is reputed with 'common knowledge' another term for urban legend and BS to do on the spot executions at the discretion of the police official and then bill the family for the cost of the bullet. Ah yes and the recidivism rates and type of government.
A principled argument without facts to back it up is not principled it's just common knowledge. You have a long way to go to learn proper research. On the plus side the Organization for Prison studies while started by the British House of Lords or government is a non profit, non government charity tax purposes.
In the USA it'self to distinguish it from the other two United States in the Western Hemisphere people under arrest are often released pending trial principally the illegal immigrant population
A nice start but then where's the rest of the figures? A British charity? What about the US figures for starters.
Federal Bureau of Prisons has for June of this year
Asian 2,927 1.5%
Black 73,557 37.6%
Native American 3,963 2.0%
White 115,046 58.8%
On a daily basis the numbers are reputed to be 750,000 at all levels for all offenses at all ages, sexes, races etc. Reputed because the figures are in dispute by readily available resources. That's the highest. it is not accurate. the ones above are federal only.
Since your comment failed to mention any numbers just as sort WAG not even a SWAG I added them in out of common politeness and accuracy which coupled with Common google is far superior to Common knowledge.
The rise in prisoners over the last 20 years is also resourced and all of it available by using one word Google.
Then there is the curious word 'innocent.'
How do you know how many are innocent when they have been jailed presumably by trial with judge and jury of their peers represented by competent attorneys?
The use of that word in that way fails to meet even the levels of WAG
I just republished access to the Cato Institutes study on police misconduct which among other things put the amount or percentage of police misconduct in all crime categories per the 800,000 local to federal police at a bit less than one percent. Meaning 8,000 police break the law. The same study showed tghe percentage of criminal law breakers in the total population to be slightly less than one percent in all catagories of crime as compared to the total population.
My interest was how much jail space was freed up for use by more serious criminals than pot smokers in the states that have legalized marijuana use as a result of the three strikes laws. Can't tell you the statistics are not readily available. at city, county, state and federal level.
I could have extrapolated a bit and made a Wild Ass guess or a Scientific Wild Ass guess but that's not facts in evidence and therefore not part of objectivism.
In the last 20 minutes or so I've produced, partially what you should have provided us. That's all the time it took.
Incomplete and hey I even forgot those who are released due to over crowding, or sentences commuted for various reasons. I also left out the number of sentences reversed by the use of DNA evidence wildly varies see the google headers of the first three that popped up.
DNA Exonerations in the United States - Innocence Project Innocence ...
www.innocenceproject.org/dna-exonerat...
1989: The first DNA exoneration took place; 37: States where exonerations ... 4,658: Total number of years served; 26.5: Average age of exonerees at the ... In more than 25% of cases in a National Institute of Justice study, suspects ... that 29% of cases were closed because of lost or destroyed evidence. ... Press Release.
DNA evidence proves innocence of 300th prisoner nationwide - latimes
articles.latimes.com › Collections › News
Oct 1, 2012 - DNA evidence exonerates 300th prisoner nationwide. A Louisiana man is released from death row after his murder conviction ... "District attorneys now recognize that the system doesn't always get it right and many, like Dist.
[PDF]EXONERATIONS IN 2015 The National Registry of Exonerations
www.law.umich.edu/special/exoneration...
Feb 3, 2016 - 2015 set a record for exonerations in the United States—149 that we know of so .... or in part on DNA identification evidence, 17% of the total.
Use this one for fast facts but beware it's not dated.
http://www.innocenceproject.org/dna-e...
How many of the worlds countries cited in your single source use DNA to release those found not guilty?
Finally How many were politicians. After all following the wisdom of Mark Twain the USA's only true home grown criminal class is the US Congress.
Now you can start to put together an article.
If there was a law saying during snow storms all home owners must lay 1 lbs of salt per 20 square feet on all driveways and walkways, I am willing to bet this would undoubtedly keep us safer.
If there was a law that all people must sleep for 8 hours per night and enforced by putting cameras in our homes, this would certainly keep people safer and likely even increase the over all health of society
If there was a law that everyone must drive 20 mph or less and strictly enforced, I know that this would certainly reduce auto fatalities. (Its difficult to get killed at these speeds)
If there was a law that banned driving altogether, we could reduce 100% of all auto accidents and severely increase the safety of the public.
If bacon were taxed 1000%, we could keep people more healthy and thus safer.
Safety does not justify law. once you accept the premise that there does not need to be a victim for there to be a crime, that just overall safety can justify an invasion of rights, you have opened the door for any absurd thing to be justified.
From speeding tickets to outlawing soda
instead, look to principles to justify law. there must be a victim to have a crime.
Safety does not make criminals
Prove what statement? That America locks up more of its people than any other nation? This is common knowledge. Here is a link with the stats.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi...
but don't take my word or link, just google incarceration stats and you will get many different sites all telling you the same thing -
America locks up more of its people than any nation.
Below you wrote that you rejected my original argument in total unless I can back it up with facts. This doesn't even make sense.
My argument is that I want freedom over police state. It is based in a principle,. It doesn't require facts to back it up.
I am saying I don't want to have a monopoly by force but instead I want a free market to provide security service.
And then you say "back it up with facts"
I prefer freedom over tyranny. How do I back that up with facts?
If there is something specific I said that you want proof of, then specifically ask for it.
Don't just make a blanket statement that a principled argument should be backed up with facts. that doesn't even make sense.
'People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.' George Orwell
Read more at: http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/aut...
“People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf.”
― George Orwell
https://www.goodreads.com/author/quot...
I likely have a much different viewpoint than you. I judge all things to an objective standard according to the ideas of natural law. This very often goes against states laws (which most people adopt as morality)
For example, No man has a right to make you do anything. So the very fact I must register my car is a crime against me. The fact I must pay for it is theft against me. The fact I must purchase a license is theft against me. So my view of the DMV is just a section mafia organization.
I get how this sounds to someone who does not see the world as I do.
It sounds like this guy is over the top. Calling the DMV a mafia section? It sounds like some extremist, I get it.
But once you make a decision for live by a principle and follow the logic no matter what it means or where it leads and use it as a moral compass, then the result is that I see the world this way.
We as Americans are so used to our loss of freedom that we cant even perceive the tyranny we live under.
We don't know real freedom so we don't understand real tyranny.
Even most Russians in the height of communism would defend their state and situation. One thing I have learned about tyranny is that it is not always gulags and guns pointed. it comes extremely slowly and unnoticed, and comes on the form of DMV's and EPA's and one new rule at a time. Its rarely force that is we physically see because no one chooses to not make the stand in their lives. We all make the value decision that our lives under whatever tyranny there is, is worth more to use than freedom
You've gotta move to a smaller town. The people at the DMV couldn't be nicer. The city employees are courteous and helpful. The police are somewhat less cuddly, but they are polite unless you act like a dick.
They literally work for you
You are literally their customer
Yet they have the ability to control you and not vice versa,
Walk into a Walmart with a set of headphones that you broke. You dropped them and its your fault. You a greeted at the door with a friendly hello, then the counter clerk asks whats wrong with the head phones. You say you dropped them and you think you should get new ones cause they suck and should be able to be dropped and you don't care its your fault, you can even be mean and talk down to them (not saying you should, but you can) they will happily replace them and say they are so sorry they broke on you.
Walk into a registry of motor vehicles or a police station. the same people sitting at counters treat you completely different. they are nasty and rude in general. of course there are specific times this is not true, but in general this a major difference.
What makes this two institutions different?
They are both being paid by you
Your their customer in both.
Why does one treat you different than the other?
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