Hope or Hypocrisy PENCE Two sides Two Explanations Two Articles Hagelin and Chapman in a He Said She Said and Pences's first speech as nominee URL (videos)

Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 8 months ago to Politics
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Pro Pence Choice Offers Hope for America
Rebecca Hagelin


His choice of Mike Pence to serve as his vice president reveals to me that Mr. Trump might be beginning to understand the importance of moral character - both for individuals and for a nation.

I do not know the current heart of Donald Trump. I don't know if he regrets the way he has talked about women. I don't know if he regrets his infidelity, or his harsh language, or the many other things I decry about his past.

But I do know that he has chosen a committed conservative champion to be his running mate. And that is enough to cause me to support a Trump/Pence presidency.

Ronald Reagan taught us that "personnel is policy." In other words, you can tell how a person will lead or govern by the people he chooses to serve with him. Donald Trump has chosen in Mike Pence an incredibly effective warrior for conservative principles.

Yet, a lingering concern for many is whether or not Mike Pence is ready to fight for the rights of business owners to freely practice their faith. Our uncertainty comes from faulty steps he made as Governor of Indiana, which painfully reminded us that no politician is perfect. It would be wise for Governor Pence to clarify his position on this critical issue soon; he owes it to those who have fought by his side over the years, and whose support he needs to win.

But I am clear about the the Mike Pence that I came to know personally from my work in Washington, DC. As a Congressman, he stood firm for the rights of the preborn, small business, and the biblical definition of marriage. He fought against government healthcare and federal control of education. He was a champion of economic freedom, limited government and a strong national defense. He was, and is, inspirational and visionary, and incredibly skillful at fighting the liberal machine and bureaucracy.
CARTOONS | Steve Breen
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And just as importantly, I had the opportunity to get to know Governor Pence on a personal level too. He and his wife Karen chose Arlington, Virginia as their home away from home while he was a congressman, and they lived near us. Their son was in classes with my daughter at our local public high school and I had the opportunity to see Mike Pence as a devoted, loving father. I remember his attending Back to School Nights, scurrying through the hallways searching for the next classroom like the rest of us confused parents as we made our way through an abbreviated version of our kids school day. He took the desk next to mine in a history class and respectfully listened to and questioned the teacher about about the curriculum, never identifying himself as anything other than Michael's dad.

I often saw Mike and his wonderful wife, Karen, strolling hand-in-hand as they went for evening walks through our neighborhood. He was a "regular guy," who always made time to strengthen his family amidst the busyness of life. His was, and is, a calling to fight for the policies that will strengthen all families. And fight he does. His record is sterling


Anti Mike Pence's Towering Hypocrisy Steve Chapman

In November 2010, Mike Pence gave a lecture at The Federalist Society's National Lawyers Convention, and I happened to be there for my first exposure to his oratory. I remember the speech because it was an exercise in pomposity and sanctimony so insufferable that I walked out before he was done. Only now do I realize it was also a towering specimen of hypocrisy.

Pence's subject that day was the presidency, a topic on which he had -- I can't say "has" -- uncompromising opinions. His mission was to instruct his audience on the proper characteristics and conduct of anyone holding the office. Though he largely avoided the name "Barack Obama," it was clear he thought the 44th president is an affront to the Framers.

The presidency's "powers are vast and consequential, its requirements -- from the outset and by definition -- impossible for mortals to fulfill without humility and insistent attention to its purposes as set forth in the Constitution of the United States," declared Pence, his gaze steely and his jaw firmly set. Of power, he said, "Those who are entrusted with it must educate themselves in self-restraint."

"A true statesman lives in what Churchill called a continuous 'stress of soul,'" Pence informed his audience. "And that's why you must always be wary of a president who seems to float upon his own greatness."

Pence told a story to illustrate the humanity and humility of Calvin Coolidge. "A sensibility like this -- and not power -- is the source of presidential dignity, and it must be restored," he said. "It depends entirely upon character, self-discipline and an understanding of the fundamental principles that underlie not only the republic but life itself.
CARTOONS | Steve Breen
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"It communicates that the president feels the gravity of his office and is willing to sacrifice himself, that his eye is not upon his own prospects but upon the storm of history, through which it is his responsibility to navigate with the specific powers accorded to him and the limitations placed upon them not merely by man but by God."

For those who feared Obama's presidency would bring about the destruction of America, Pence solemnly invoked the "great generations" that have gone before us: "They are silent now, but from the eternal silence of every patriot grave, there is yet an echo that says, 'It's not too late. Keep faith with us. Keep faith in God. And do not, do not ever despair of this republic.'"

I had interviewed Pence once and found him mild and affable, so the fire and brimstone surprised me. At the Federalist Society convention, he sounded like a politician slightly unhinged by Obama and trying to establish a reputation as a profound thinker.

But when Pence accepted the second spot on a ticket with Donald Trump, he made clear that he didn't believe a word he said. The address is full of lines that would disqualify Trump from a moment's consideration.

Trump has not the slightest trace of the humility and dignity Pence once deemed essential, and it's hard to imagine his being constrained by the limits of presidential authority. As for the Constitution, Trump thinks it contains an "Article 12" and wants to censor the internet without regard for the First Amendment. "Somebody will say, 'Oh, freedom of speech, freedom of speech,'" he snorted. "These are foolish people."

Does Pence think Trump has ever endured "stress of soul" or even has a soul to be stressed? Does he think Trump has "character, self-discipline and an understanding of the fundamental principles that underlie not only the republic but life itself"?

Pence warned us against any "president who acts like, speaks like and is received as a king" -- a contemptuous description he used with Obama in mind. But no candidate has ever behaved with a more brazen air of royal prerogative than Trump. And a party whose principles have almost nothing in common with his views has meekly submitted to his majesty.

Does Pence think Trump would be a president who "feels the gravity of his office and is willing to sacrifice himself"? Does he believe Trump would exercise his powers with respect for "the limitations placed upon them not merely by man but by God"? It's enough to make a cat laugh.

If Pence would listen for the words echoing now from those patriot graves, this is what he would hear: "OK, now despair for the republic."


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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 8 months ago
    Just a comment on Trump's supposed attack on the 1st amendment and freedom of the press. What the 1st says, in essence, is that you (and the press) can't be criminally charged for your statements. However, it does not protect you from other consequences, like charges of libel and slander, or having your press credentials removed.

    Journalistic ego is more than a match for politicians' egos, and the press has done serious damage to the nation, often acting as a propaganda arm for forces hostile to America. Real investigative journalism is a dead art, given the press has become so cozy with political organizations.

    Maybe a more adversarial relationship between the press and the administration will restore the drive in the press to act more as a watchdog than lapdog.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 8 months ago
    A non-politician's pick to pull the wool over the eyes of the christian right. His other choices would have been guys who are better politicians.
    I wonder what Pence learned from being caught in his first (?) campaign where he used campaign funds to pay his mortgage and buy all kinds of goodies for the family. Was not illegal at the time but resulted in campaign finance reform.
    I don't know how much of a cross being stuck in my face that I can stand from the guy. I have enough of that here in Wisconsin from Gov. Walker and Speaker Ryan.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
    The real issue is whether Trump takes up the gauntlet to actually run the huge bureacracy efficiently. He can stand on principle with his veto, can issue executive orders, but other than that he cant do much without congress agreeing with him. Its more likely there would be at least one congressional body run by democrats.

    Trumps choice of VP is pretty much a non starter unless someone kills off Trump and Pence gets to be president.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 8 months ago
    I would hope Pence Knows trumpet is not a humble man and I would also hope that Pence might have a sense of how his presents might moderate trumpets hubris.
    It's like two competing vibrations that combine into an average of the two.
    I think that is the best way to look at the two...it just might be a good thing.

    A personal example: A few years back I befriended a guy down the street from me, we were both into old cars and in fact worked on several together. After a few weeks of visiting each other his wife said to me that I had a positive effect upon her husband and she was pleased...I later found out that he was an alcoholic and was abusive -(his language toward her). I still wonder how my presents could of effected that change, other than the fact that I am not a drinker.

    Using this example, is it reasonable to expect at least some moderation in trumpet as a result of his association with Pence?
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
    Sounds as if the author thinks Pence has made a deal with the devil.
    (BTW, the link provided didn't work.)
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
      I thought it fair to print both since they were side by side without reading them first. Then add my comment after reading them.

      THe URL didn't work so I put them as a comment but there is not to be contiinued.

      But I thought it tied in with the other thread choosing a VP a continuing nest of snakes if not devils for sure. Still I don't see anything new here just another left winger although possibly fasr more competent. Maybe he's saving the retired Admiral for Sec Def and Newt for Sec State or Presidential Adviser but who for Attorney General. You gotta know that Lynch Justice is gonna be outta that building in one second past inauguration. Good thing we don't need another Jackboot Janet Von Flamethrower Reno II
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  • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
    The only question worth asking - Is Pence good enough to become President. That is a Vice-Presidents sole job since none in living memory have opted to perform the rest of their Constitutional Duties. Is Pence good enough to be President.

    Second question if he is good enouogh to be President inthe absence of Trump why wasn't he running for the office to begin with? Might be some good reasons there. Might be instructive.

    The answer to the first question should be, must be an unqualified Yes. If not then we won't have an immediate stand in ready to go other than the Speaker of The House (Think Pelosi and shudder.) If not then of what practical use is he objectively speaking.

    Plump Donald suffers a heart attack President Pence takes over. Simple as that. The rest is frijoles.

    Especially important for the other candidate who is not only an overweight heart attack candidate but still a candidate for prosecution. One must remember even though Lynch Justice failed to act the party is not over. With a new Justice that indictment can go forward on the email or other grounds. What happens if the Demcorat candidate wins but is arrested prior to the Oath of Office? The VP steps in one would suppose. Either way Biden is toast.

    Then there are the conventions. Hillary wil have no problem. That's a captive office of unthinking clones. Without some big time entertainers we're talking major boooooorrrrring.

    The other side? Who knows? Do the movers and shakers and big time king makers in he background feel their established aristocratic right to control will be enough? If not Trump will be bounced for any number of good reasons. One's he provided. The shaky part is who else to pick? Certainly with one exception and that' s lots of votes including the ones reclaimed from the winner take all thieves. Other than Cruz no other former Candidate has the moral right.

    So look carefully at Pence. Interesting guy. Ask why did he not run for office. Ace in the hole for a convention nomination? If not as VP then as President? Which would then leace one slot open so thing large and think long. If Trump was bounced by the delegates - who by the way are all free to vote for whom they want except for party rules - and Cruz was not tasked who else? I'm thinking women's vote as unimportant as they have made themselves it's still a huge chunk of 'women scorned.' Anyone out there like Pence or is it ...Carly Fiorina, Then you ask the same question all over again. Is she ready? Not really but she is a fast study without too much in the way of baggage

    Something to ponder. Jolene The Plumbers Wife?
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    • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
      No one the major party accepts is capable or qualified to be president. All ethically challenged lying looters.
      Ron Paul would be a good selection for Trump, but he would decline.
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
        Not a bad comment I must add that to the pick a VP Criteria List! But then this time the not major party is still sounding like the major party's two candidates. That means we have no one representing the Constitutional Republic Party. Mislaid, shunted aside, sent to Coventry. Makes this big hollow empty mystery space in USA politics especially since the Constitution IS or WAS the center. Or did I miss a caucus or convention somewhere along the line. For sure the lame stream media and all the other medias missed it. As a good trooper whatever am I going to tell Mommy and my fellow soldiers? Are they out of a job?
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        • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 8 months ago
          More and more I am of the opinion that secession is the only way for people who want free markets and individual liberty to be free. Statists/Socialists/Fascists have perverted the political process so that there is no peaceful hope for liberty.
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    • Posted by term2 7 years, 8 months ago
      Truman was thrust into the job when Roosevelt died, and he even admitted he was scared to death of it. But, he did OK finishing up the war with Japan. We even survived CArter, who did pretty much nothing. Carter was better than Obama for sure, who did a lot, but all BAD.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 7 years, 8 months ago
    The Trump/Pence team is completely and totally unacceptable to any sane reasoning person who understands individual rights and what government is and is not legitimately for. Pence has said volumes over the years against all LGBT rights, against Planned Parenthood and against abortion under all circumstances. He is a far right religious zealot.

    HE SHALL NOT PASS!
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 8 months ago
      Wow he's against the baby killers at PP? Now there's one good thing. Abortion of a fetus I can support murdering children in the act of being born is just murder. Anyone involved A La Pared!

      Not enough to get me to vote for a left winger and who knows if he meant it or not but it's.....something.
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      • Posted by $ sjatkins 7 years, 8 months ago
        Excuse me but a fetus is not a "baby" or rather that is the entire heart of the debate - when human rights begin. It is not up to the government to decree this.

        Also this fellow is profoundly anti-homosexual and anti-gay rights including supporting parents attempting to use aversion therapy on their gay children which is horrendous medieval crap that hasn't a prayer of working.
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