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Romney might vote Libertarian, and that’s a good thing

Posted by $ CBJ 7 years, 10 months ago to Politics
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Mitt Romney is considering voting for the Libertarian ticket in November:
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/20...

This is good news, because if Romney is taking a closer look at the LP, many others in the “mainstream” wing of the Republican Party are probably looking also. Despite substantial policy differences between the two parties, the LP's political positions and principles may have more appeal to many Republican voters than those of a Trump-led GOP.

As the most viable alternative to both Hillary and Trump, the LP can expect to attract rising interest and support this year from across the political spectrum. Without changing who we are and what we stand for, those of us who are LP members should welcome these new supporters and strive to give them good reasons to vote for us through many elections to come.


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  • Posted by jabuttrick 7 years, 10 months ago
    On Meet the Press yesterday, Republican Senator Jeff Flake of Arizona was stating that he could not see himself voting for Trump. When asked if he could vote for Clinton or Johnson he stated "I won't vote for Clinton." End of answer. Paired with the Romney comments, I sense the beginning of a mini-movement of public consideration of Johnson among prominent Republicans who are not up for re-election this year. If this gains momentum and does not meet with public opposition by party leaders we could be in for a significant shift in the next 60 days or so.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
      Two Republican state legislators (from different states) have already jumped ship and re-registered Libertarian. At least one of them is up for re-election this year, and will be running as a Libertarian. More early signs of a paradigm shift.
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  • Posted by IronMan 7 years, 10 months ago
    Riding on Thoritsu's coattails - I live in the People's Republic of Illinois. Honestly, I am more in the #NeverHillary camp than I am sold on Johnson. Yet, given the Electoral process, voting my conscience has no cost - Hillary will take IL.

    On a positive note, there were several people at the outdoor concert I attended on Saturday evening getting people to sign a petition to get Johnson on the ballot here.

    The negative side was they were advertising him as an Independent. I challenged the fellow who got me to sign as to why they weren't calling him a Libertarian. He said they feared that many conservatives hear only "Liberal" when they hear Libertarian. We have a huge hill to climb in educating the masses.

    I do wish Johnson came off as less of a goofball. He's not the best messenger, but he is the best choice we have this year.
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  • Posted by freedomforall 7 years, 10 months ago
    Do Libertarians know how to keep the wormtongued from taking control and perverting the principles or statist provacateurs ebarrassing the group a la Tea Party?
    Gaining prominent open minded conservatives is key to changing the course of the ship of state.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
      The risks of the LP being corrupted are minimal, compared to the opportunities given to us by the disarray in both major parties. Many voters (including mainstream political leaders) who have dismissed our ideas and principles in the past will seriously consider them this time around. The opportunities for libertarian outreach have never been better.

      It’s worth noting that neither Johnson nor Weld is “in control” of the LP – they are simply the party’s nominees for the top of the ticket this time around. The LP can deal with a threat from outside forces if and when it arrives. In the meantime LP members and non-members alike can enjoy the extraordinary opportunity that this year’s election has opened up.
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      • Posted by $ mpgmr 7 years, 10 months ago
        Great sentiments but if the neo-cons, one worlders, et. al. gather en masse I have a difficult time believing that the Libertarian party's principals would not be subverted. What better name than Liberal for Socialists/Communists (absconding with the classical definition of liberal) and Libertarian for those with an anti-Libertarian agenda. I have been a card carrying and dues paying Libertarian for years and have run for County office as same so I understand the enthusiasm for the notoriety, but please do not underestimate the enemy.
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  • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 10 months ago
    I live in MA, so there is only upside to me supporting LP/Gary Johnson!

    Who knows, the last time MA went anywhere but socialist was Reagan in '84 (my first vote), and before that was Eisenhauer in '56.
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  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago
    Romney is an idiot
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    • Posted by Steven-Wells 7 years, 10 months ago
      Please explain why you badmouth Mr. Romney. What aspect of considering to vote for the Libertarian candidate confers the epithet "idiot" on Romney? Or is it some other aspect of the man? I can disregard his religion, which may seem dubious to many and ridiculous to me, but overall, he is a man of high ethics and personal integrity.
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      • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago
        First of all, Romney is a dyed in the wool mormon, which I could overlook IF he was more accepting of non-mormons. For example, the whole anti gay thing kind of disturbs me. One always wonder what ELSE their religion is against...

        Secondly, the basically did the massachusetts equivalent of Obamacare, and then came out against Obamacare when it was politically expedient.
        Thirdly, when he came out so vehemently against Trump, and got involved in that whole smear campaign against Trump's wife (probably because of his religious beliefs).
        And then he is wildly into the never trump thing. I want to know what the candidate is about, not why "never trump- or anyone else for that matter".

        All that leaves me with a pretty negative opinion of Romney (a far less emotional response than just calling him an idiot).

        Living in Las Vegas, I have had some additional experiences with Mormons in government here, and I have seen them use their government powers to further religious ends.

        I want in government people who are rational and will run the country efficiently and in accordance with the constitutional protections. I didnt like Cruz for his religiosity either. I just find it hard to accept that they wont at least subconsciously use their faith to further some religion agenda on me.

        I think Romney would vote Libertarian not so show acceptance of the libertarian principles, but because he wants to keep Trump from winning. I think that is a bad reason, and therefore I was upset at the idea he would vote Libertarian.
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        • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
          Romney the voter needs to be evaluated differently than Romney the candidate. When he was a candidate in 2012, many in the freedom movement did not vote for him because they objected to many of his positions you described above. However, in his capacity as a voter, different criteria apply.

          The LP is responsible to some extent for the positions taken by its candidates, but not those of its voters. People vote for or against a candidate for all sorts of reasons. Many Republicans and conservatives besides Romney are supporting Gary Johnson (or considering doing so) because they can’t stand Trump. It’s one of the main reasons that the Johnson-Weld ticket is approaching the debate threshold of 15% in the polls. Most of these people would not vote for Trump anyway, so the LP is not “taking votes” from him, it is providing the #NeverTrump voters an alternative to staying home on election day. It is also exposing these voters to freedom-oriented principles, giving libertarians an unprecedented opportunity for outreach to voters who have never given us serious consideration in the past.

          If we only welcome votes from those who are in near-total agreement with our principles, we will not ever cross the 5% threshold within our lifetimes, let alone 15%. As a serious political party, the LP’s best strategy is to encourage voters to support our candidates now, and persuade them to adopt our principles over time.
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          • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago
            I think that actually expecting a libertarian presidential candidate to win political elections in this culture at this time is just not realistic. Given that either Trump OR Hillary will be the next president, why allow the worst of them to be president. Actually subatantial voting for Johnson will just take away from Trump and result in Hillary running our lives come January. Trump would be better than Hillary I think.

            Expressing approval for Johnson to get him on the debate stage I think is good- and it will allow for libertarian ideas to be spread more widely. But in November, not voting for Trump is going to get Hillary the presidency, which I think would be a disaster for the country as Obama was already.
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            • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
              A recent poll shows Gary Johnson taking more votes from Hillary than from Trump:
              https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-l...
              And Gary Johnson is further undermining Hillary by actively seeking votes from Bernie Sanders’ supporters.

              If you live in a “swing” state, voting for Trump to stop Hillary may make sense. If you live in a solid Red or Blue state, where your vote can’t possibly affect the outcome, then voting for Gary Johnson is a costless way to express your real preference and add to his vote totals.
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              • Posted by Steven-Wells 7 years, 10 months ago
                Here is a novel approach for conscience-oriented major party voters (Demopublican or Reprocrat). It prevents a vote against their party's deplorable candidate from acting like a vote for their hated "enemy" party candidate.
                It's a website that pairs a disgruntled voter from one major party to match with a similarly disgruntled voter from the opposing major party: http://www.burnmyvote.org.
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              • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 10 months ago
                "Gary Johnson is further undermining Hillary by actively seeking votes from Bernie Sanders’ supporters."
                Probably 80% of the people I personally know supported Sanders. I was for Hillary, and almost never engaged them in Hillary/Sanders debate. Now that Johnson has a real shot, I'm gentling pointing discouraged Sanders' supports to links about Johnson.
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              • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago
                that logic sounds good. If Sanders think he can make a "deal" with hillary to get his socialism in, he is sadly mistaken. Hillary is out for her goldman sachs connections, and definitely not out for Sanders' so called democratic socialism.

                Hard to see how Johnson would take votes directly away from Hillary. Sanders should really go third party and continue to build up his "revolution", rather than abaondon it and ask his supporters to vote for Hillary. There is a lot of breakdown of the party heirarchy that needs to be done with both the GOP and Dems and the election in general (get rid of electoral college once and for all) before ANY third party candidate could ever win here.
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                • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
                  Here’s how Gary Johnson can take votes directly away from Hillary. There is a substantial group of voters who dislike Hillary but dislike Trump even more. At present they are inclined to vote for Hillary as the lesser of two evils. As the election season progresses, two things are likely: (1) Hillary’s unpopularity will rise under Trump’s withering attacks, her tepid response to terrorism and her continuing email scandal; and (2) the Libertarian Party’s visibility and respectability will continue rising, providing an increasingly acceptable alternative for reluctant Hillary supporters to demonstrate their unhappiness without voting for Trump.

                  Trump is much less vulnerable to a third-party challenge. On average, Trump’s supporters are much more enthusiastic and committed than Hillary’s. His negative popularity ratings, already higher than Hillary’s, are unlikely to rise much further. For these and other reasons, Gary Johnson will have a more difficult time winning over Trump supporters than winning over Hillary supporters.

                  The net result: Gary Johnson takes more votes from Hillary than from Trump. According to the polls it’s happening now, and I expect this trend to continue through election day.
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                  • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 10 months ago
                    This is interesting analysis.
                    "There is a substantial group of voters who dislike Hillary but dislike Trump even more."
                    Most people (just over 50%) who I know well enough for them to mention politics to me fall into this description.

                    "Hillary’s unpopularity will rise under Trump’s withering attacks"
                    I think attacks on her help her. It's like when Lazio approached her podium 15 years ago. She's able to look at her critics like a misbehaving child. That tends to make them go ape and do something stupid. I think attacks, esp Trump-like attacks, will help her.

                    "her tepid response to terrorism"
                    I don't see this at all, but I have possibly an unusual view. I see "hate crimes" and "terrorism" as just crime. "Terrorism" just means the motivations are political. The crime is generally a ploy to goad people into over-reacting. So in my view, the response cannot be tepid enough.

                    "her continuing email scandal"
                    This is a tempest in a teapot, unless something new (e.g. she used it to take bribes) comes out. It's fuel for people who don't like her for other reasons and ignored by her supporters and undecideds.

                    "Libertarian Party’s visibility and respectability will continue rising"
                    I think so. I really hope so!

                    "His negative popularity ratings, already higher than Hillary’s, are unlikely to rise much further. "
                    I don't know. He strikes me as a flash in the pan, like people could get tired of his antics. I may be wrong, though, b/c I never thought he'd get this far.

                    "Gary Johnson takes more votes from Hillary than from Trump"
                    I don't have any feel either way. You're likely right. I only know I would have voted for Hillary if Johnson were not viable. I supported her because she was not a socialist and not a Republican, and there was no other viable choice. I'm not sure if I'm a rare case or if millions are thinking the same thing.
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                    • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
                      RE: “I see ‘hate crimes’ and ‘terrorism’ as just crime. ‘Terrorism’ just means the motivations are political. The crime is generally a ploy to goad people into over-reacting.”

                      What’s going to hurt Hillary big time is that voters have very different reactions to ordinary crime and terrorism. They do not fear ordinary crime nearly as much as terrorism-inspired crime. Ordinary crime is a known danger, typically committed by semi-rational individuals motivated by what they perceive as their personal gain. There are known effective ways to reduce the danger of becoming a victim of ordinary crime. With terrorism the primary motive is to destroy others, not to enrich oneself. There is no effective way to avoid the danger, short of living like a hermit.

                      People (meaning voters) dislike uncertainty when it comes to protecting themselves and their families. A higher level of uncertainty is associated with terrorism than with ordinary crime – uncertainty as to where and when a terrorist is likely to strike. Voters will gravitate to someone who promises to take concrete steps to reduce the risk of terrorist attacks. Hence, the Trump phenomenon. This issue will continue to haunt Hillary and may cost her the election.
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                      • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 10 months ago
                        Interesting. All of that makes sense, except I don't see Trump or Hillary as taking concrete steps to reduce the risk of politically motivated crimes. Maybe voters do. I think Trump voters are responding to the economic changes globalization causes, not to international criminals.
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                  • Posted by term2 7 years, 10 months ago
                    What concerns me about this is that once the libertarian views become publicized, the looters out there (who are Sanders supporters) will realize their dreams of socialism are NOT part of libertarianism at ALL. The populace would have to be educated in freedom as a great system first, and then the grip of the two major parties would have to be undone before any libertarian candidate could ever be elected. Trump would do the undoing of the parties thing, and if Johnson gets on the debate stage, he would have a shot at helping educate. But that would mean there needs to be excitement over Johnson to get on the debates, but when the election comes, the votes need to be for Trump this time.
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  • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 10 months ago
    The LP's achilles heel is that the party is completely unwilling to even try to purge itself of kooks. I doubt it will effectively resist a takeover by anybody. Members are required to sign the NAP but I've never heard of anyone being threatened with expulsion for breaking that oath.

    It's ironic that Romney would oppose Trump when Romney personally scuppered the GOP's chances in 2012 by being the only Republican who couldn't plausibly run against Obamacare.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
      I don't see any mechanism by which Romney and his allies could take over the LP (even if he wanted to, which he doesn't). On the other hand, his recent remarks have given the LP instant credibility and a higher profile among Republicans who previously dismissed it as a "fringe" group. Many of them will give its platform and principles a closer look, thanks to Romney. A few of them might even come over to the side of liberty permanently.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago
      After all if the GOP couldn't resist a takeover how could anyone else possibly resist the socialst onslaught? Mights well quit and go play crybaby in the corner. That's much more acceptable and plausible. GOP has it's share of Kooks but they are called RINOs the spawn of Pelosillyni.
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  • Posted by Temlakos 7 years, 10 months ago
    Mitt Romney would give publicity to the LP for one reason only: to spite Donald J. Trump.

    Nevertheless, any publicity at all for the LP will force everyone to take a good, hard look. I think an instrument like the LP can become very valuable, if enough people join it who have a grasp of the reality of the world outside the borders of the United States.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 10 months ago
    I doubt that the left and right will be able to accept more liberty for both left and right. They both are stuck in their distrust of liberty where there is not enough control of the the other side's lives. If there were a great desire for liberty, the LP could become a leading political party. People require keeping others leashed in order to pretend that they can be trusted.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 10 months ago
    Would Romney actually be an asset to the LP? This is the guy who foisted "Romney Care" on Massachusetts. If he had his way, he would keep the do-nothing congress doing nothing while fearing to offend voters by strongly opposing Progressive follies. Yes, he is a well known public figure, but is he worth what he will strive to do to LP along with the cronies who will come in with him? If Romney takes an active part in the LP, they will become merely another sell-out -- perhaps even worse than the Republicans.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 10 months ago
      Great talking points from the Democratic Party.

      I'd strongly recommend you go look at the original bill Romney championed and not what it has since been amended by the liberal Massachusetts Assembly to say. The Heritage Foundation was a big supporter of the original bill because it didn't mandate anything. Those provisions were ushered in as amendments after Romney left office. That was the huge mistake Romney made when debating with Obama in the 2012 elections - he failed to distinguish between the bill he had originally championed and what it had since morphed into.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 10 months ago
        Interesting. I have a gaggle of cousins in Worcester and checked this out with the sanest of them. He says you're correct and thinks the amendments are good. He is a commie-lib, but a 1st cousin, so what can you do? OK, a point for Romney. I still don't like him. I knew his dad. Liked him.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
      I don't see Romney actually becoming a member of the LP (he has already said he disagrees with its position on decriminalizing drugs), but his mere mini-endorsement of its candidates will encourage his political allies to consider voting Libertarian as an acceptable alternative to supporting Trump. This will add to Gary Johnson's standing in the polls, improve his chance of getting into the debates, and raise public awareness of the LP, its platform and its principles. It's all good.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 10 months ago
        We shall see. Blarman corrected me on Romney's original healthcare bill, so I may be wrong on other stuff as well. I must admit upon thinking about it, I'm prejudiced against him because of the way he muffed the '12 election.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 10 months ago
          I completely agree with how he muffed the election. He destroyed Obama in the first debate. It was a no-contest rope-a-dope-fest which saw Romney skyrocket in the polls. Then suddenly he wilted to an incredible extent for no explicable reason. The media had fun with the lock incident and the car carrier incident, but no sane person (or one who had actually looked into the accusations) took serious stock of them. The fact was that the second and third debate performances were just woefully lacking.

          Of course a little ballot stuffing never hurt Obama's choices either and you can bet the same thing is going to happen with Hillary this fall.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 10 months ago
    Bet Rush Limbaugh can tell you what Mitt Romney is up to with this phony little show he's putting on. He already has in other words.
    Romney is part of the same craven GOP "establishment" who would not mind the evil hag winning at all.

    http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/rush-...
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    • Posted by $ Suzanne43 7 years, 10 months ago
      +1 for you. Mitt Romney is such a member of the Ruling Class that it must make the Bush's proud. They don't care who wins... either Republican or Democrat as long as they can control us peons.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
      If Romney really backed Hillary, he would be urging his political allies to stay home, not discussing the LP candidates. By raising the profile of the LP in "establishment" circles, he is also strengthening the credibility of the libertarian wing of the Republican Party and opening up a whole bunch of issues for debate. I think he is serious when he says he is considering voting for Gary Johnson this time around.
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  • Posted by johnkitco 7 years, 10 months ago
    The Romneys wrap themselves in the American FLAG but NEVER wrap themselves in an American UNIFORM.
    "patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"
    (1) Great Grandpa Romney ran to Mexico to dodge American laws
    (2) Grandpa Romney FLIP-FLOPPED back to America when Mexico got dangerous.
    (3) Daddy Romney NEVER SERVED through WWII and Korea.
    (4) MITTENS Romney used "missionary" deferments to DODGE the Viet Nam draft.
    (5) FIVE sons, and NOT ONE ever wore an AMERICAN UNIFORM.
    FIVE GENERATIONS, NINE "males", and NOT ONE actually LOVED America enough to SERVE this Nation. The only thing "conservative" about the Romney Family is conserving THEIR OWN BEHINDS.
    They hide their money OUTSIDE this country ....so they are always ready for a quick get-away just like Grandpaw did when he ran to Mexico..
    No Romney ever comes back missing a limb, in a box, or with PTSD ........ because no Romney ever SERVES.
    The Romneys LOVE WAR ...... because they get RICH but THEY never ever .bleed.

    Mitt Romney is sabotaging conservatives just like his father George Romney sabotaged Barry Goldwater.
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    • Posted by $ Thoritsu 7 years, 10 months ago
      I never served either, but I bet I've done more for the defense of this country than many that have, and certainly more than I could've carrying a gun (and I am a damn good shot, and not timid). How, by helping to design and build the most capable defense platforms in the world.
      Not sure if the Romney's are in this category or not, but I'd argue serving in the military is not a prerequisite or definition of patriotism.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 10 months ago
      ..
      1. Because the law was an unconstitutional abrogation of First Amendment rights.
      2. See #1. He never should have been forced to leave in the first place.
      3. So what? You're saying that only someone who has served in the armed forces can love this nation? BS.
      4. So you're saying that his First Amendment rights and a legal deferment are trumped by your definition of "patriotism"? BS.
      5. See #3 above. I have tremendous respect for and many friends who serve or did serve in the US military. I also know some soldiers who disrespect the uniform they wear. See Nidal Hasan. Your blanket statements are pure logical fallacy. Patriotism is judged case by case - and not by you.

      Take your hate and empty accusations elsewhere.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago
        and besides draftees are more trouble than they are worth in my professional military opinion unless all you need is cannon fodder.

        But the sad fact is we stiull have that GD law on the books and it's still operating and the young folks at 18 still don't know what it means when they sign up for college money and government jobs and it's still a fact when the anti draft law movement was inches from winning they quit or were bought off.
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    • Posted by $ DriveTrain 7 years, 10 months ago
      To underscore what others have said here, this is an Objectivist forum, and Objectivists were instrumental in getting the military draft abolished, because it is, in a word, slavery. And generally speaking, the proper idea is that "this nation" - meaning its government - is there to serve us. We are not here to serve it. So dodging the draft is not cowardice - an easy ad hominem - it's a rejection of presumptive slavery.

      What Michael said about the quality of draftees as soldiers resonates too. If a.) the purpose of government as identified clearly in the Declaration is "to secure rights" as its sole function, and b.) the armed forces are the #1 first-line defense of rights, then soldiers should be among the highest-paid government employees rather than the lowest, and there should be no shortage of people signing up, for the lucrative pay if nothing else.

      I've long believed that America's armed forces are analogous to a fist in the martial arts, with the President - as CinC - analogous to the brain, and the entire chain of command beneath him representing the synapses and nerve array that translate the brain's command into the muscular activation of a punch. A fist in sync with a wise, competent brain is effective; a fist comprised of what amounts to a random bystander compelled to do the job of one's own, is a pale, ineffectual imitation, giving predictable results. See the entire outcome of the Vietnam war for details. A military draft is an open admission that a government's conceptualization of the military as the government's primary rights-protector is hopelessly muddled, and that its leadership - still analogous to its brain - is addled and erratic in its grasp of purpose, not to mention of ethics.

      It's not a great analogy, but in any contest between an army of men self-motivated to be part of that army, and an army of men forced into it, guess which one wins? There is a reason for this.

      A second issue: The common argument that "you didn't wear a uniform, therefore your views are null" - generally in the role of an ad hominem - is itself null. One does not have to have attended medical school and run a medical practice to possess valid views on medicine vs. government; one does not have to have become a CPA to possess valid views on taxation; one does not have to have worked as an architect or building contractor to possess valid views on the regulatory straitjacketing of housing construction; one does not have to have worked as a climate scientist to possess valid views on the religion of Chicken Little.

      Certainly, if one does have such credentials it adds the weight of further expertise to one's views, but the absence of them is not some kind of magical trump card (pun if you want one,) which nullifies an opponent, thereby saving one the work of debate.

      Further, given that there was a significant dearth of major wars between the close of the Vietnam War and Desert Shield, it is a simple demographic fact that huge swaths of the American population came of age during extended peacetime (I'm one of these.) Which means the "chickenhawk" epithet is even more blatantly meaningless.

      In retrospect, I wish I had joined up after H.S. - particularly given that my CinC would've been Reagan - but I decided not to, and have never worn a uniform in any branch. (Though like Thoritsu, I too have racked up significant time building state-of-the-art equipment for the military - FLIR pods for USN jets, specifically.)

      But there are lots and lots of people across America who hit their 20s between Vietnam and Kuwait/Iraq, and as such devoted their time and energy in pursuing careers in the marketplace rather than joining the military. Are all of those people's views forfeit? And different individuals possess radically different talents. Some people have a military aptitude, some a business aptitude, some a technical aptitude, etc. Assuming every individual is equally fit for every job is a distinctly collectivist view.

      Complying with a draft order is a guarantee of absolutely nothing vis-à-vis courage, patriotism or toughness. Enlisting certainly is. But neither is choosing a different career a guarantee of these qualities' absence.

      /soapbox
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  • Posted by coaldigger 7 years, 10 months ago
    I think that our Republic is not well served by ideologues of opposites with no in between. The forces driving the left and right increase the distance daily and there will be a tipping point where future cooperation will be impossible. I have my own beliefs and they are pretty black and white but I realize that there is no chance of changing the minds of others and must settle for a situation where neither "my" side nor "their" side dominates.
    I am confused how Romney, with his strong religious beliefs and statist leanings could be a Libertarian. I am afraid that he is just so repulsed by Trump that he is considering sabotage
    for childish reasons. I am sorry to see this because I considered Mitt to be a decent person even though I never thought he was the man for the job but way more preferable than Obama. My previous, biggest disappointment with Romney is that he did not strongly defend Capitalism and this adds to my negative evaluation.
    The Libertarians come much closer to matching my beliefs but I do not see that they have any chance as an independent entity and would be better off spread among the Republicans and Democrats providing good ideas and pulling each to more mutual understanding.
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
      Even if Romney’s mention of voting Libertarian is born of personal frustration, there are many others who will follow his lead and at least examine the Libertarian candidates as possible alternatives to Hillary and Trump. In the short run, Romney’s statements will shine a spotlight on the LP and may lift Gary Johnson’s poll numbers to the point that he will be included in the presidential debates. For their own purposes, there may be many Republicans and Democrats that would like to see this happen.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 10 months ago
        "A recent poll shows Gary Johnson taking more votes from Hillary than from Trump:"
        I was for Hillary Clinton until Johnson polled 10%-11%. I always would have wanted Johnson, but I consider it pissing in the wind to find the one unknown candidate who best represents me instead of supporting one likely to win. I also think, in the view of some like an abused teenage b/f or g/f, that if I support a candidate early and get to know their staff I can influence them.

        But Johnson has a real chance. If either candidate has a serious scandal that everyone can understand, e.g. stealing money, sexual abuse, taking bribes from criminals, an an episode of mental instability, then Johnson will be likely to win.

        Then next time we'll be asking if a candidate is taking away Gary Johnson's votes instead of the other way around.
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      • Posted by coaldigger 7 years, 10 months ago
        I think that the debates are going to be completely without content. A third person trying to presenting a radical ideology will not be heard above the mud-slinging and name calling. If Johnson gains any traction and draws more support from Trump than Clinton we will be certain to end up with a toady judicial branch for the progressives and we can kiss our country good bye.
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        • Posted by $ 7 years, 10 months ago
          A recent poll shows Gary Johnson taking more votes from Hillary than from Trump:
          https://alibertarianfuture.com/2016-l...
          If Gary Johnson can get into the debates (he's polling 12% now), it will be an interesting contrast between his laid-back style and the other two candidates in full attack mode. That contrast alone could gain Johnson some significant support at the expense of the other two candidates.
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 7 years, 10 months ago
          "A third person trying to presenting a radical ideology"
          This is true if the founding principles of the US are radical today. Maybe they are. Johnson says we don't have to agree on everything, just the important things.
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          • Posted by coaldigger 7 years, 10 months ago
            I am sorry to say that I think that if you picked a random group of people from across the country and read them the Constitution in modern language, that most would disagree with a nation founded on those principles.
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            • Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 10 months ago
              Just goes to show what is not being taught in grade school today.
              When I (now age 96) was a little hatchling, teachers put a special impressionable and unforgettable oomph on history lessons about the founding fathers and the Constitution.
              Every class day started with putting our hands on our hearts, facing the American flag in the room and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance as it was originally written.
              Believe I was in the sixth grade when we all had to recite The Gettysburg Address from memory before the class.
              It was a far cry from singing any "Um, um um, Barack Hussein Obama" Progressive drivel.

              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ty7W...
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago
      Except the Republicans and Democrats are a one party system in real life and work hand in hand. Vote for one you get both. Rinos and Dinos are called that for a reason. IN NAME ONLY they are both under the socialist umbrella, both left wing, and both fascist in nature.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 10 months ago
      Saying you are one is one thing - being is another, doing is a third. Look at what's his face that took over from Boner? Just another Socialist in sheepss clothing or whatever.
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