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  • Posted by JohnConnor352 10 years ago
    If both values are based in rational thought, they will not conflict and so you should not have to choose between them. If you are discussing the concept that we may be forced to give up one to save the other due to the irrational actions of others, then I would say your rights are first and foremost what you ought to protect. Then fight to get back your dignity as well. If you lose your rights, then your sense of dignity can only be a false one as you do not own your life. That pride you feel in who you are would more closely resemble the brainwashed respect a long-time slave has for his master, or a peasant for his King. There is no actual dignity in that. So in giving up your rights you would have not only given up both values, but also the ability to fight to restore the one you lost.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    That is one individuals opinion that applies to one individual only. The comment may be stupid - questions rarely are. However there is an easy out. It's what everyone is doing or I heard it through the grapevine or the worst of all 'common knowledge is a a way of saying follow the crowd. The latter version is if nothing else...honest.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years ago
    I have just finished reading Conqueror by Iggulden. In one part a 'civilized Sung Empire mandarin type is shocked to discover the least clean, educated and most barbaric Mongol had more dignity than the whole of his civilized educated nation. After the great Khan died it took them 200 more years and several leadrship changes to finish what the one had started. It never occurred to them to not finish the job or settle for any less. And on the 700th year they rested.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 10 years ago
    Dignity comes internally from knowing what you are doing is right. Dignity is similar to integrity in that it can't be granted by others.
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  • Posted by Enyway 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Very good. Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, the shame is on me. Problem? Too many do not realize they are being fooled.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I have a small collection of Samurai movies. Lots of blood! Sometimes the past gets in the way of being a proper objectivist or for that matter church member but I find comfort and solace in the phrase Turn The other Cheek remembering no one ever admonished turn it more than once. From that I learned no one who has paid for the folly of my cheek turning once is around to entice a second turning. Therein lies a lesson of ensuring no names are left to be taken and objectively speaking there has been no complaints.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Ever see samurai movies or or the 70s miniseries called Shogun?
    I've seen lots and lots of samurai movies starting with classics such as Yojimbo, Sanjuro and Seven Samurai.
    A samurai's service to his lord meant everything.
    A samurai was expected to cut out his own intestines if just to serve a whim of his lord.
    Those samurais can really come off looking admirable for being all noble and such.
    But they were just fancy slaves.
    Same goes for an ancient Spartan's service to the state.
    Thermopylae was quite the battle you have to admit.
    What has not been admitted is that the Spartans had a lot more help than shown in the decades apart movies, 300 Spartans and 300.
    Old Dino saw them both in a theater when they first came out. That still takes nothing away from the Spartans who held that pass to their last breath.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 10 years ago
    An example of objectivism applied to real life ....

    We have three comments that aren't showing up again. However Freedom and Independence are the same thing same genre they govern how you turn your rights into actions but each and every right demands a corresponding responsibility. Which brings us to a major point of disagreement. Moochers are not responsible for their actions where Looters are or at least should be held responsible for their 'mooching' but where are the responsible citizens demanding their rights to ensure the moochers and looters are dealt with accordingly?

    Fact is they are few and far between. having been replaced by 'enablers' who demand the right to take all of your rights but demand you still take responsibility for supporting the
    moochers and looters.

    Of the three moochers (minus the few who really are unable to produce for or care for thenselves), the looters and the enablers the last group are better called super moochers. Scum is another word.

    The whole mantra for money as free speech is replete with their chant." I demand the right without explanation to take all of your rights without exception." One non existent made of whole cloth right in exchange for something like five constitutional rights never mind violating the bejayzus out of your individual and natural rights.

    It's a quid pro quo argument where they demanded their quid but so far have failed to pro quo. No value received for value given.

    Did the rights deprived citizens exercise their responsibility? No....too busy learning to be enablers apprentices.

    You will here the enablers rail and rant about this and that but when it comes to anything important they are curiously silent.

    Still it leaves us with something useful.

    Rights equal responsibilities

    Rights not protected mean irresponsibility.

    Individual, Natural, or embodied in such a document as the Bill of Rights.

    Dec 31st sllicked into a hidden corner of the year end funding bill under cover of the contrived to the wire last second vote which ended up 85 to 15 in the Senate was an expansion of the already in place usurption of civil rights and NO articles were written, no comments, no discussion.

    Meanwhile and since then we have hosted countless really meaningless stupid discussions on 'rights by the 'where were you when it counted, enablers.

    Still at a loss? Figures.

    The ability to apprehend and detain without benefit of any civil rights whatsoever was up held and expanded in the fascist Patriot Act.

    Probable Cause with back up suitable to get a legal warrant' replaced by mere 'suspicion of' with no warrant, no judge, no attorney appointed, no trial, no evidence and apparently no requirement for any records being kept. '

    Verbally said to not apply to US Citizens but try to find that in writing.

    And damn few of us said anything. This time they took the right without exception to take all of your rights without explanation.

    Where was your precious dignity then?

    Obama then went on TV and patted his back and his ass with a show of pride how he had put one over on your fricking dignity.

    The old law said unspecified maybe taken into custody ' on suspicion of terrorism.

    The new law added 'on suspicion of support of terrorism.'

    The 100 mile from border and sea coast or navigable waters susupension of the Constitution not suspended or cancelled.

    No definition of 'terrorism'
    No definition of 'terrorist'
    No requirement for 'civil rights added back into the mix."
    No exclusion of US Citizens.

    Now where's your precious dignity as you watched Barak Hussein Obama sneer at you with his real legacy.

    Same place you let your precious constitutional rights go. Ignored and in the shitter.

    That's an example of Radical Reasoning turned against them.

    But it isn't untrue;.

    Now who you going to vote for?

    an out an out marxist-leninest?
    an international socialist
    a national socialist

    Nice job America. Upper US!. You let them dictate the choices.

    As for me. I objectively moved to free North America. No more infantry for this soldier. I'm watching from the sidelines.

    Stop Enabling
    Take Control
    Make Change
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Your welcome...and your right...freedom cannot be split up or divided between us...it's all or nothing but like anything else...comes at a cost, as we here all know.. is being responsible.
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  • Posted by Enyway 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I am afraid I would not have the discipline to undergo the torture John had to go through.
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  • Posted by Enyway 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Basically, you need to ask yourself, would you be willing to work for someone who is poor, or someone who is rich.
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  • Posted by Enyway 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Absolutely, without dignity, we are no different from the other animals who inhabit this planet.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Agree...government has sought to be our keeper not the protector of our freedom...and it goes waaaay back to Babylon.
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  • Posted by Enyway 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Seriously? Dignity is a poor subject? If all the presidents to date had an ounce of dignity in each of them, I don't believe this country would be in the state it is. We need another Thomas Jefferson, John Tyler, or Calvin Coolidge. Good luck waiting for that to happen.
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  • Posted by Enyway 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I do not understand your point to my post. Simply, Taking away one little freedom at a time is the method by which our government is taking away all of our freedom. Agree or not.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Once big brother does something For you, instead of you doing it yourself then big brother becomes your keeper...hence the phrase: "We" are our brothers keepers, like the phrase "We" shall go down and confound their language...the WE part...The rulers...then and now.
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  • Posted by Enyway 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    I am glad to see the refferences to FREEDOM are without the "s" on the end. Our responsibillities have been chipped at for years. I hope this connects before the people of my generation disapear all together. The screen door. We made sure it was closed. Then the spring was added. We no longer had worry about the door closing. Now, it was, "Don't let the door slam." Now, doors open themselves and close behind you. You do not have to look behind your car for obsticals. The car makes you aware. You donot even have to lather soap anymore, it's lathered for you.
    Follow me on this.
    As our responsibilities are slowly being taken away from us, so is our freedom. Regan coined this problem. Paraphrasing, When FREEDOM becomes freedoms it is broken down into individual parts making it possible to erode our FREEDOM. If you take away one freeom after another, it can only be done in degrees. The ultimate goal is the same. Anytime you see the word "freedoms", remove the "s". Do not let this government take away our freedom a little at a time. That is how it was done in AS.
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  • Posted by rbroberg 10 years ago
    Rights are neither privileges nor - contrary to popular belief - something one exercises only when pursuit of a certain course of action conflicts with an arbitrary social decree. Rights are not an excuse to act irrationally. Rights are a political concept depending on antecedent facts including: the mind and force are opposites, the proper course of action for a virtuous individual is rational egoism, and/or living for one's own sake (not for the sake of another).
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 10 years ago in reply to this comment.
    Simple Definition of dignity
    : a way of appearing or behaving that suggests seriousness and self-control.
    : the quality of being worthy of honor or respect.

    I agree with you...To take full and proper advantage of individual rights as a creator of values one must have dignity and I can not see how one could achieve dignity without the rights of individualism. Correct me if I'm wrong here, in a system that denies individual rights, the attainment of dignity is improbable and will likely get you jailed or killed.

    A case in point in today's culture is the desire of individual rights without dignity or the "Right" to be undignified.

    Goes back to "Freedom" without ethics, morals or responsibility.
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