Gender Equality In Slavery

Posted by $ allosaur 7 years, 11 months ago to News
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I'm a guy who was once drafted against my will due to a war I was against.
I perceive there being no "gender balance" for forcing military servitude on women.
Just because it happened to me, I do not feel there is any justice to be gained from conscripting anyone ever.
There is no justice in slavery period.
SOURCE URL: http://personalliberty.com/requiring-women-to-register-for-draft-is-equality-in-slavery/


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  • Posted by Technocracy 7 years, 11 months ago
    My position, as I have stated in the past is that there should be no conscription. If women insist they want equality in every way with men, that includes the "right" to be conscripted.

    Again, we should not have conscription in the US. We do not need it. If the public supports the military action, more than enough will volunteer, for example WW2. If the public does not support it, they should rethink getting involved in the first place. For example, Vietnam, Korea.

    Note: I don't mention the more recent actions, we are still in there, and too many lies spewed to have an honest discussion about it yet.
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    • Posted by lrshultis 7 years, 11 months ago
      Sorry but "right" and "conscription" do not belong in the same sentence. If a law is involved, then "right", which is a freedom of action in a social situation, is not possible. The most you could have is some kind of privilege left to join up despite a force to be drafted. A law is a threat of the use of force to make some group to act or not do act. There are no rights involved in laws, just ending in the use of guns if resisted.
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      • Posted by Technocracy 7 years, 11 months ago
        I put the word "right" in quotes for that reason. The gender and/or race agenda people use the word "right" whenever they want their way in a social/legal situation. Because that word carries more "weight" than any other word they could use.

        Honestly, I am not sure what word would actually be appropriate, but that one is not.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 7 years, 11 months ago
      I served for six years in the Air Force on several overseas combat deployments. We were basically 50/50 men to women, the women could do almost everything the men could with the exception that I'm still against women in ground combat operations. It's not a derogatory statement about their ability, it's the fact that a male will generally take unusual risks to protect a woman that they wouldn't necessarily do for another male - often to the detriment of theirselves and the rest of the unit. For non-combat support jobs (which is at least 90% of the military), I have zero problem with it.

      I also think it's only "fair" - women have long fought for the right to serve in the military, and now to serve in ever-increasing capacities and want things like the post-9/11 GI bill with basically unlimited education benefits, excellent training, etc. With that comes the obligation that they should also have the same risks as a male.

      We are not alone in that - most countries around the world (other than Muslim ones) have women serve in similar capacities, in Israel, it's all-hands-on-deck for national defense.

      It doesn't take a penis to pump gas in a plane... You don't need one supporting a 7000 person floating ship at sea, etc. If anything, it helps morale and stabilizes the military community.
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      • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 11 months ago
        I mostly agree. I would leave it up to unit commanders whether to allow women in combat units -- but I would absolutely not have reduced, and would restore, the physical strength requirements of any branch or organization, but especially of elite forces like the SEALs and Green Berets. Let women's participation be limited to the few who are strong enough to pass the tests that were designed for men -- because these are jobs where strength really does matter.

        The same goes for police and fire fighting jobs, unless that person is just going to sit behind a desk.
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    • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 11 months ago
      Agree, but a note worth mentioning: the public was in favor of both Korea and Vietnam: Korea for the duration and Vietnam until Johnson made it into a money-makey scheme for the industrial war complex.

      Korea ended in an armistice because the US was tired of war and you had a lot of Democrats (who were actually Communist sympathizers - McCarthy was dead on) who actively made it difficult to prosecute that war. In addition, it was really the US against both China and Russia at that point in a battle of attrition.

      Vietnam was a classic case of armchair quarterbacking and why it is a bad idea to have civilians running military operations. The US was winning the war early on, but a change in Presidents and the subsequent priorities and focus on "diplomacy" - the nonsense of every Democratic politician. It was at that point that the hippy protesters like Barbara Streisand started coming out of the woodwork. One of my favorite John Wayne movies was "Green Berets" where he deals with the whole Vietnam issue very pointedly.
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      • Posted by Technocracy 7 years, 11 months ago
        In my opinion a lot of what support there was initially for those actions was more or less support for the UN. The UN had not yet lost its luster to they extent it has now.
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        • Posted by $ blarman 7 years, 11 months ago
          The UN at that point was still very fresh, very idealistic, and the corruption hadn't pervaded it to the point of making it the complete joke it is now. But I'd like to hear more about how you think the UN supported the Korean and Vietnam wars simply because both Russia and China had seats on the Security Council and would have vetoed any measures passing through that body...
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          • Posted by Technocracy 7 years, 11 months ago
            Korea - Initially we got involved in Korea when Douglas MacArthur attacked to strike back at the invading forces. The invaders had already begun rolling over not only the North Koreans, but our own people in country. At the time, McArthur was in charge of all ground forces in WestPac. Air Force was a bit of a gray area, since it was also newly created.

            Anyway South Korea's "side" of the dispute was sponsored, for want of a better word, by the UN once the conflict broke out. That UN sponsorship was one of the fig leaves that saved MacArthur from being relieved right away. Truman did not like him at all since McA's arrogance was profound to say the least.

            Vietnam - Two wars there, the first one started in the late 40s until 1950. It was a proxy war with the north being a communist supported force and the south being an anti-communist supported force. The UNs involvement was not really relevant in this one.

            The second war there, was a little different, still a proxy war, but this time the breaking of the treaty from the North was a big deal. Our direct involvement was two-fold. We had advisors on the ground, and then the Gulf of Tonkin incident. That drew us in. The UN was a sideshow really, but a useful "authority" for both sides.

            Your last sentence above is exactly why the UN is not of any real use.
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            • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 11 months ago
              As usual ....We weren't drawn in the Tonkin Gulf Incident was manufactured by LBJ for the benefit of his ego and the forces of left wing sociaist corporatists. the advisers on the ground were ordered out by Kennedy and the order rescinded by LBJ.

              Just another socialist war fought by conscripted troops and a few professionals

              60l,000 dead later we were informed our win had been given to the other side.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 11 months ago
      I agree in principle, but if that idea were law it would mean that the US can't carry out its treaty commitments to defend countries most Americans don't care about saving.

      Thus I would do what many European nations have done, and require a vote of the American people, preferably repeated every 10 years or so, for any treaty of alliance with other countries. Or better yet, for any treaty at all (as the Swiss have it). This would be in addition to, not instead of, approval by the president and Senate.
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      • Posted by Technocracy 7 years, 11 months ago
        If we had those kinds of laws we would have far fewer foreign interventions. As it is, changes in our law have made it far too easy for the executive branch to get us into things without congressional approval.

        They intent of those changes was to allow quick reaction in case of attack, not give the President free reign to start wars without Congress' approval and declaration.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
    Conscription is involuntary servitude. Men, women, it doesn't matter. Period. The End.

    The real question is, "Should women be allowed to volunteer?" The answer is yes. Should they be allowed in combat? The answer is also yes. Then the next part of the debate becomes questioning as to whether women have the strength or stamina for combat. That can be determined during training as to what assignment they get. There are men who are not fit for combat who can serve In other capacities as well as women.
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    • Posted by Eyecu2 7 years, 11 months ago
      I am sorry but speaking from personal experience, I am against women in combat. In the late 80's when I was in, we had several women in our unit. It was a normal occurance for them to be unable to preform simple tasks that the men would then have to pickup the slack on.
      Additionally they then would be rotated back for showers every other day, whereas the men would be in the field indefinitely with no shower rotation.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 7 years, 11 months ago
        I can't argue with first hand experience. Obviously the women and even the men were getting a heavy dose of PC. However, my comments still stand. The women should endure the same conditions as the men. The sargent in charge should have been instructed to send women who couldn't cut it to other tasks. If that wasn't being done, then it wasn't the women's fault, but more likely a chain of command coming down from some administrator who couldn't find his ass with both hands.
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        • Posted by Eyecu2 7 years, 11 months ago
          Here is a little thing that happened to me that forever cemented my position on women in the military.

          In my unit it was a tradition that when a person got promoted to E-5 Sgt. on the very next PT formation they had to carry the M-60 (a 23 pound machine gun for you civilians) for the run. I happened to be in line directly behind a newly minted female Sgt. as we started the run. It was a short run only about 8 miles. As we left the gate (we had run about 200 yards) she turned and handed me the M-60 and ordered me to carry it. As I was only an E-4 Spc. I did as I was told. At the end of the run as we pulled back into the post. She turned and demanded that I hand the M-60 over to her. I stated that I was good and would finish the run with it. She immediately began chewing me up one side and down the other. The 1st Sgt saw and overheard the whole thing. Thinking that I would receive some support. I stood my ground. Next thing I knew I had extra duty for the next 2 weeks and an official reprimand in my file. Apparently I was insubordinate to an NCO because of her sex.
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          • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
            Old dino's word for today charade,
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            • Posted by Eyecu2 7 years, 11 months ago
              How so?
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              • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
                That sergeant was acting out one at your expense.
                Don't know if anyone was watching that gate she wanted to impress, but she at least wanted to be able to say start6ed out with that M60 and finished with it.
                Doubt anyone would even imagine there's that middle part where you came in
                As part of my "just in case you have to fight as a Marine supply clerk" advanced training, I fired a M60 one whole time during 1970.
                I felt a rush, and I found it easy not to miss a stationary target with tracers.
                Come to think of it, I do believe that was the only weapon I fired that had tracers.
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  • Posted by Ben_C 7 years, 11 months ago
    Unintended consequence of women draft: significant rise in the number of 18 year old mothers. Beats student deferment and should qualify them for ADC, food stamps and a whole plethora of entitlements. Do the idiots in Congress ever thinks these things through or are they too busy attending parties.
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    • Posted by $ jdg 7 years, 11 months ago
      Those who would follow that strategy are already doing it. This is why 30% of all births in the US are now out-of-wedlock. (If Planned Parenthood were ever put out of business that number would grow very quickly.)

      There is also a large correlation between this practice and membership in a certain ethnic group. Whether that is a coincidence is an interesting question.
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      • Posted by Ben_C 7 years, 11 months ago
        At least in Detroit the ethnic group baby production is a way of life. Generations have done this to "get their check." A friend of mine taught school in Detroit for many years and observed the culture first hand. A direct consequence of LBJ's "War on Poverty."
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 7 years, 11 months ago
    There is a new book out; Tied up or twisted up...it's about how the equality issue didn't solve anything, no one is any happier, in fact, everyone is more confused and unhappy than they perceived themselves to be before.

    Men and Women are equal...Equal partners according to each their own essence, just as the laws of nature intended.

    I always valued the American way of appreciating women, pretty much differently than the rest of the world...sure there are some that don't here in America, but back in my day...it wasn't representative. I see women on our front lines, no matter how capable, a travesty and a net negative for society as a whole, it just doesn't seem right...but this is the "be what ever you will" society...only time will tell, long after we're gone.
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  • Posted by chad 7 years, 11 months ago
    Conscription is not a new invention but it is one that is direct conflict with the idea of a freeman. If in order to have the right to have a bank account I have to surrender my life at any demand by the state or even coerce me into killing people it deems unfit for life then I am not free. The Viet Nam war was not ended because of the outcry of those against it, the out cry went on for 10 years the actual involvement with 'advisors' was started under Eisenhower, it ended because those who profited from it were tired of it and feared enough people had become tired of it to find something else to do was easier and cheaper. Should women be drafted? If they want the right to vote to send me to the war (I am a man) then they get to go to, let's keep it equal. That's how I felt during the Viet Nam War, many women I knew felt they had the right to send me but thought they should not be involved because of their gender.
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  • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 7 years, 11 months ago
    I'm sorry you got drafted. I had a reasonable number and a student deferment until they weren't drafting many, but it was clearly a threat hanging over me.

    This is a weird one because I think it should be both genders if it exists -- and I don't think it should exist. I'm hoping that adding young girls to the registration will end the whole thing.

    All the money we spend on maintaining a useless database is simply wasted. I don't think the Soviet Union is intimidated anymore -- if it ever was.
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    • Posted by $ Susanne 7 years, 11 months ago
      I feel that if a country is going to conscript, it should do so from an equal cross section of society - doesn't matter if they're male, female, or somewhere in the middle; Gay Straight, Bi, etc... it DOESN'T MATTER!!!

      And honestly - the whole division between men being eligible for combat and women being excluded - are crap. If you can measure up to the standards for the job, what you have between your legs should be the LAST consideration. Anything else is patronizing, and says "you really ARE a second class thing, that someone else has to protect and watch over", or worse", You're not WORTHY to defend your country like someone else is"...

      Having served (volunteered, because that was the only way to get in,) one thing I got from my service was the requirement to go from needy, whiney kid to self-sufficient and determined adult. It taught me to be responsible, that my word is worth something, and that I had to make it on my own, without relying on someone else (parents, hubby, whatever)... The other thing it taught me, of course, was (to quote a drill sergeant I remember surprisingly fondly) was "Life ain't fair, sometimes it sucks, so suck it up, buttercup, and get it done". (We were talking about this very subject last night...)

      What I see with those lacking this "experience" are, in general, a generation of those who either learned this some other way, or (sadly) never learned it at all.

      Sure, the draft sucks. Being forced to do something you don't want to do sucks. But sometimes... you gotta do something you don't like. And doing so may benefit you in ways you don't see. (Or to quote another famous Drill Sergeant line - "No Pain, No Gain.")
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      • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
        The 9/11 attack did make me wish I was young enough to volunteer.
        Pearl Harbor had the same effect on my father.
        Anyway, I have said "thank you" to people I've seen in a military uniform.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 11 months ago
        Yes but at least we had something worth fighting for back then. Other than a student loan what does this new generation get out of the deal. Never ending wars and a huge debt.
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      • Posted by johnpe1 7 years, 11 months ago
        I spent a couple of months writing training manuals
        for firefighters and electricians while waiting for my
        place to open up in aircraft maintenance officers'
        school in illinois. . as an engineer, they couldn't
        believe that I could do it! -- j
        .
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    • Posted by $ 7 years, 11 months ago
      Hanging over me way back when was a threat that became reality almost as fast as I lost that student deferment in my sophomore year due to being too sophomoric. I really had no idea what I wanted to do with my life or what courses I wanted to take.
      Uncle Sam had an idea and scooped me up in a heartbeat. I wound up in the Marines as a supply clerk.
      I never went to Vietnam but Parris Island was as bad as it was in Full Metal Jacket. Believe a drill instructor's fist slammed into me at least five times. I got tough, though..
      The first time I felt fully free in since my late teen years was during that last taxi ride to the airport as a corporal with an honorable discharge.
      I got out two months early on a "school cut" and went back to college paid for by the G.I; bill.
      I figured out what I wanted to do and two years later I graduated,
      An honorary discharge and a piece of paper that states that my last promotion was under meritorious conditions DOES look good on a resume..
      I was lucky. Things did not turned out the same way for everyone who got drafted during the 60s.
      A thing to remember about that Vietnam black wall monument is that not every name on it was a volunteer.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 7 years, 11 months ago
    and I happen to agree with the swiss who have
    universal conscription -- or deportation ... or they
    once did. . the military isn't the only option;;; you
    can help with the courts or the libraries or some
    other public service. . or pay a lifetime tax. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 7 years, 11 months ago
    Conscription should be an act of national emergency to defend against an existential threat. The misuse of this mechanism for political purposes, e.g. gender equality, is misplaced.

    In truth, real threats to the continued existence of the republic will likely draw enough volunteers to make conscription unnecessary. The concept arises from the misguided idea that anyone not in uniform is somehow a "free rider" on the sacrifice of their military brethren. In earlier times, I had a relative who was listed in the War of 1812 ranks simply for being a farmer who supplied the uniform military. We seem to have lost that sense of community and shared burden.

    There could be ways to inspire increased volunteerism as an alternative to conscription, such as the right to vote based on evidence of service (as in Starship Troopers). This would require constitutional change.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 7 years, 11 months ago
      What Republic. The United Soviet Socialist States? The draft still in place and going strong is the tool of the fascist left. But it's their country now. When is the flag changing ceremony?
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