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Sustainability Isn't Sustainable

Posted by khalling 9 years, 1 month ago to Philosophy
80 comments | Share | Flag

this is a duplicate post. However, on Earth Day, I wanted to remind everybody that it should be "Man Day"
is it a coincidence Earth Day is Lenin's birthday?


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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Hey, Michael... it was the equivalent of an internet meme back then....
    And allegedly anchored (sea-anchored) far enough 'offshore' to be over the horizon, so no running lights would be visible from any shore...
    There's a meme-answer for any such argument.
    But for the gas shortage in NJ to end just weeks after I wrote my letter to my congressmonkey about the Presidential Vote difference was, well, at least a Wonderful Coincidence.
    If Coincidences really exist.

    Oh, and NJ had odd-even days as part of the program, too. I had a personalized plate, ALAN F, and was put in one of the odd/even categories as a result. It took them a while to figure that out, too.. :)

    :D
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    California had every other day fill ups depending on the last number of your license plate. I was stationed there at the time. Whole thing was just an early test of the same system used in 2008. Use or manufacture a 'crisis' Use it to control a needed part of life. Fuel, Money, Medicine whatever. Then pay off the debts by inflation, devaluation and debt repudiation.

    Considering the NJ sea coast during the time of the 73 'gotcha' the lights from the anchored ships would be clearly visible but having worked on tankers a. where would they go and be what were the weather conditions a the time of the fuel shortage? Maybe the Great White Sharks were to blame?
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Thank you, Thank you, Thank you,!
    Spot on, Dr!
    For a few years I've been puzzled as to why the big fan wind turbines all seemed to put the generators in what was the worst-possible location for installation, maintenance and upgrade-ability!
    I actually pictured putting the "wind turbine" in the base with a vertical shaft and putting a large 'chimney' above it, ending with a horizontal-axis "funnel" which would use pressure differentials from 'front to back' to power the turbines.
    Vertical blade wind farms sound like a better idea, and the packing density is one great justification!
    More power to the people working towards that, so to speak!
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Here's a Dino-like memory from me....

    I lived in NJ during the '73 gas crunch. I had a car that got about 12 mpg and I lived about 22 miles from work, so just finding enough gas to keep commuting was a challenge. Small-dollar pumping limits also hurt.

    Then someone told me that if I drove about a gallon or two to the West, crossed from NJ into PA, stations there had plenty of gas.

    I tried it once... fill-up with no questions asked, and the attendant asked if I needed any fluid checks under the hood. I smiled, thanked him, said no, thanks, and motored back to NJ.
    The full tank with less worry was worth the cost of the voyage there and back.

    THEN a rumor came out that there were flotillas of tankers moored off the NJ coast, just over the horizon, waiting for the gas prices to increase enough... Congressmonkeys were written to.
    Nothing changed.

    And then, one day, someone told me that, while PA had voted for the then-current President, NJ had gone the other way.

    I pointed that out via snail-mail to my congressmonkey, President and local papers.

    Y'know what? Within a matter of weeks after that, NJ SUDDENLY was allocated a LOT more crude to refine and the Gas Lines evaporated almost immediately after that.

    Go figure.
    Cheers!
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Sorry, Herb, but I discovered The Answer to the Angels Dancing conundrum a few years ago, and the solution is irrefutable...

    "As many as will fit."

    And the Catholics couldn't figure that out over all those years? That's sad.

    And, you're welcome, and Happy Birthday!
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  • Posted by lrshultis 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    When I studied physics in the early 1960s, thermodynamic systems were described as of three types: open, closed, and isolated. In the open system both matter and radiation can enter and the entropy can remain the same, decrease, or increase. In the closed system, radiation can enter the system and entropy can remain the same, decrease, or increase. In an an isolated system, no matter or radiation can enter the system and entropy will stay the same or increase. The Earth is an open system with both matter and radiation entering and can have some systems where entropy can decrease, such as in living things. Does the entropy of the Universe continue to increase so that it will end in a cold cold whimper?
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  • Posted by plusaf 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    .. no, only non-Leftie/Liberals notice stuff like that...
    You didn't notice?! /jk
    :)
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  • Posted by $ prof611 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    I have accused him of this three times, and I stand by my statements. Dale may reach some valid conclusions, but his reasoning is frequently faulty.
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  • Posted by lrshultis 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Entropy is not some kind of stuff that exists. It is a measurement of disorder or information neither of which have any substance as matter or radiation.
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  • Posted by term2 9 years, 1 month ago
    sustainability seems to mean something that can be done again tomorrow. Not sustainable seems to mean something that cant be done again.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 9 years, 1 month ago
    a caller Friday on Rush's radio show with Buck Sexton
    of the blaze ... commented that we should seek to diminish
    our risks on this planet which routinely tries to kill us
    with storms and earthquakes and volcanoes. . it blew
    Buck's mind! -- j
    .
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Fossil fuel supplies (which have been predicted to run out more times than I care to think) are a reliable energy source for at least fifty years at the current rate of consumption. That gives us plenty of time to develop other energy sources with comparable cost.

    As you note, nuclear energy is a credible, reliable, safe energy source that is cheaper to implement than solar, wind, or geothermal energy at this time. Thorium reactors (though none have yet been put in service) promise an almost unlimited supply of future nuclear energy, since they breed new fuel.

    I anticipate the wind power community will shift from the big horizontal axis turbines they now use to large farms of vertical axis turbines, even though the verticals are less efficient on a unit basis. I can place more verticals in a given space, they can handle a wider range of wind speeds for increased availability, and the generators are a t ground level, reducing maintenance cost and improving safety.

    Solar technology is improving at a mind-numbing pace, primarily with a change to less expensive materials. That will be a game-breaker, but it's not here yet.
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  • Posted by $ Terraformer_One 9 years, 1 month ago
    I would like to point out that the concept was first put forward by the Environ-MENTAL-ists.

    Their STANDARD is an environment WITHOUT humans so any ideas they suggest need to be checked for CONTRADICTIONS.
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  • Posted by $ Terraformer_One 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Look at the 'NATURAL' world:

    All of the creatures have new generations being born, growing, and dying. The predation of species by parasites(smaller predators) and carnivores(larger predators) stopping the hypothetical growth potential(e.g...the flawed story of microbes growing in a Petri dish). AND ignoring the food availability in any single location.


    If you are referring to the ECONOMIC realm, people find more effective ways of obtaining the items that they desire and these new tools replace older ones.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    YES De Trois might be the background I haven't looked it up but Det Riots sounds good...nice and leftist fomented.
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  • Posted by dbhalling 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    That is not what the advocates of sustainability mean and therefore not the standard by which they judge things. As a result, if that is your position then you are really talking past the issue rather than dealing with it
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  • Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    Detroit means "The Straits. Detriot means The Riot?
    Clever, since while I lived there I experienced two major ones and several little ones. In '67, me and my family were coming home from a mini vacation in Chicago. We heard there was rioting, but there was nothing like the feeling you get when you see tanks rumbling down the street near your home.
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 1 month ago in reply to this comment.
    "Estimates are that the price would have to rise to $240 a barrel before renewable energy (with the technology available today) would be competitive without subsidies."
    You have been talking about renewable energy, and I have been talking about alternative energy. I consider nuclear to be alternative energy, actually the best alternative. I also think there may be ways to capture the carbon (mostly CO[2]) after burning coal. I don't think coal will be getting harder to extract for many generations, so that's a possible alternative. I suspect oil will get harder to extract in my lifetime, but will stay at similar price range because of alternatives. I reject the claims (nothing you've said) that some people make that the oil will go on forever or its running out will lead to a disaster.
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