Commonize your Ammo
Posted by jarmans 8 years ago to Going Galt
People who like firearms usually buy many different types. Under an ammunition constrained environment, a vast array of different calibers and gauges would be optimal. However that is also a nightmare under ‘Preppers’ law. I have chosen just a few calibers and gauges to communize on:
.22 – fits both rifle and pistol, carry a lot of ammo and contrary to folk myth, can kill.
.45/9mm – pistol cartridge, been around for over 100 years each so there are billions of rounds out there.
12/20 gauge – hunting and home defense ( I never saw a round from a box marked ‘Target Ammo’ stop when shot at a person) OO-B will kill, # 8/9 shot will make Swiss cheese and hurt them a lot.
7.62x39 – the assault weapons.
7.62x54 – the suppressive fire weapons.
30-.06 – my LOOONG range shooter (1400m)
.22 – fits both rifle and pistol, carry a lot of ammo and contrary to folk myth, can kill.
.45/9mm – pistol cartridge, been around for over 100 years each so there are billions of rounds out there.
12/20 gauge – hunting and home defense ( I never saw a round from a box marked ‘Target Ammo’ stop when shot at a person) OO-B will kill, # 8/9 shot will make Swiss cheese and hurt them a lot.
7.62x39 – the assault weapons.
7.62x54 – the suppressive fire weapons.
30-.06 – my LOOONG range shooter (1400m)
--Either-- 45ACP or 9mm. Why have different rounds for the same purpose? Go one way or the other and stock up. (Or go with 10MM and reload your own - everything from pussycat rounds to a competent pistol hunting round).
Same with Shotguns - Pick 12 OR 20 ga. Either is fine, but if you divest, say with one gun in each, split your ammo, and then one gun goes TU? You just cut your ammo supply in half.
I could go further - with the AK vs .308 vs 30.06 - you can build an AR10 that will cycle fine with light load rounds. the .308 is a reach out and touch someone round. But having all 3 calibers - well, same problem as the shotguns above.
My caveat - I do have firearms in other calibers. I have one in a Weatherby Magnum that will dispatch any dangerous game on this continent and ammo to match - but it is a built-like-a-tank bolt action and kept for the purpose of dispatching bear, elk, moose, etc. (As Boris says - "Is moose and un-squirrel gun"...).
And of course 22. Gotta have it. Bricks and bricks of ammo. Because it's awfully expensive practicing with a 375 Wby Mag round... and it WILL turn Rocky into Squirrelburger.
BTW - nothing wrong with a QUALITY air rifle/pistol as well - silent, and still deadly against small game.
Thank you.
p.s. here is a video of how fast a revolver can shoot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3fgd...
When I said proficient I didn't think of anything like that in my wildest imagination. I meant just hitting the target and trying to get close inside the black.
I like the low cost of the 7.62x54r rounds, and I have a Mosin Nagant that was never previously issued (arsenal-grade) and I carefully removed it's beautiful yet commie-utilitarian in a made-from-plywood kind of look wood stock and replaced with an Archangel stock/magazine setup. It's a little 'long' but plucking a soda can at 500 yards is pretty easy with the scope I equipped it with and that round will go through a cinder block. The downside of the 7.62x54 (and the 7.62x39) is that if you don't spend a lot of money on actual brass for those, the advantage to using them is the military surplus, but you can only reload a steel case a couple of times.
Agreed, my .45 Glock and my .45 cal HighPoint carbine are interchangeable. The HighPoint carbine is very nice in that respect, its quick to use with the holographic on it and its quite the little plinking gun at close range for small game hunting. The .45 rounds are plentiful and very easy to reload. I'm not big on handguns, I have a few, but they are just not really my 'thing'. I also have a couple of .44 magnum carbines - a Ruger .44 mag and a lever-action Winchester (my 'cowboy' rifle) in .44 magnum. I don't think I've ever shot either of those, both were more for invest & hold.
Where we diverge is the 30-.06, for big game hunting here in the west, it just doesn't have the combination of reach and punch, so I generally prefer the .300 win mag. I also have a .308 semi-auto, but I'm kind of in the market to trade that one out for either a .300 Win Mag or .338 Win Mag bolt. The thing I do like about the .300 round though is the very 'cheap' brass cost, and its very easy to load with my Hornady setup. Reach-wise, on the prairie, the 30-06, although a good slugging gun, doesn't have the reach.
I'm planning a hunting trip to British Columbia in a couple of years and I can't bring a semi-auto across the border, so hence the interest in a long-reach bolt. It's actually cheaper (pretty much) to go elk hunting in Canada as a tourist than a non-resident license in a neighboring state.
You are missing the .223/5.56 though, rounds are as cheap as dirt, and my AR-15 with its night scope, flash suppressor, stainless steel fluted barrel, and the 30-round mag is very, very sinister looking. For shooting at the range all day, my AR and my High Point are really the only ones that can stand up to it. A typical sporting rifle will get a little squirrelly after a couple of dozen rounds (heat becomes a problem).
It seems to me that the 9mm pistol round is most likely to weather a leftist ammo purge in both availability and price because it is used by the military and is favored by police with semiautos.
I now have a 9mm pocket pistol and a larger 9mm with more ammo in the clip used as the "car gun" in my glove compartment. My planned next purchase is a 9mm rifle with a lot of shots.
Each month I add more to my 9mm ammo stash.
I also have a .12-gauge pump that I over a decade ago bought when invited to a dove shoot and now keep beside my bed.
For 21 years I had to "NRA qualify" with the same type shotgun for the prison job I've retired from. So I'm quite handy with a pump.
I recently bought a pair of "buy one get one free" bandoliers that hold shotgun shells. Soon I'll have both fully loaded so as to appear to be the Frito Bandino some of you may remember in old TV commercials.
Another recent purchase is a kid-sized Red Ryder air rifle that I can shoot straight if the butt is against the ball of my shoulder.
Next I think I'll add a crossbow with which I can hunt silently if there should ever be a need for that.
I've squirrels galore! Unfortunately, I've never used a crossbow before.
I'm thinking of being forced to hunt to eat should there be a huge economic collapse or a similar disaster.
At that point states will be too busy with food riots to worry about solitary hunters.
I want the tools to silently hunt so some large group of thugs won't come and rip off my kill and maybe also kill me.
For example, if in a tree stand, would you bend over, put it down on your feet through the stirrups, and pull upward, while trying to somehow not fall out of the tree? I'd rather just pull back on the bow string. That's primarily my point. Keep in mind, it's not the only thing you would have with you - the quiver, supplies, a backpack, camo, maybe a light jacket on, etc.
It may work for some people, and I can't hunt with one here, but its my speculation based on shooting with mine. It wouldn't be my first choice.
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#8/9 bird shot may not go far and not kill at long distance but it server it purpose well in home/ground base defense.
.22? Agreed and then some.
.45 nothing better for multiple reasons
12 ga. #4Buck is a better choice.
.30-06 another nice selection.
A complete list for the USA.. In the rest of the world similiar choices have to be made to match what is available.
.22/.45 combo pistol wihich changes barrels in long slide knocks you down to one side arm. both can be used with suppressors.
one .22 rifle won't add that much weight to your collection.
Likewise 12 gauge provides for a variety by changing ammuntion not the weapon that includes slugs for close in or brush hunting as opposed to another rifle caliber.
30-06 if you can find a star barrel model is a dream shooter.
so that makes three long barrels and one short barrel weapon collection and all fit and don't look out of place.
1.) .22 Rimfire
2.) 12 Gauge.
3.) 5.56 centerfire.
4.) 9mm Parabellum
5.) .45 ACP
6.) .30-06 Springfield.
7.) .38 Special
8.) 7.62x39 (AK ammo)
9.) 7.62x54R
10.) .223 centerfire
11.) .380 ACP
12.) .357 Magnum
13.) .40 auto
14.) 44 magnum
15.) .270
16.) ...
This list has been scientifically researched (complete guess).
The .45 1911 pistol is also exceptionally popular and has been around for over 100 years.
The .380 is becoming more popular and is extremely concealable.
The .38/.357 magnum is used in both revolvers and rifle...quite common and very easily reloaded.
I do practice a form of conformity in my stores, but it's mainly because I get greater value from my time that I do spend.
I keep lots of .22 that I've purchased slowly years ago. I have put untold thousands through my 10-22s, and I have a few revolvers that take .22. I also have a reloading kit that does a fair job of casting new bullet heads and reloading them. It's a bit tedious, which is why I prefer to buy .22 but it is fun around a campfire.
I have similar backpack-sized reloading kits for every caliber I use. A LEE loader and a two bullet mould for the gun I am carrying is always part of what I take with me just in case I get stuck somewhere.
I use .45 across the bulk of my equipment. The black powder revolvers are all .451, my personal semiauto handguns are all .451, even my Thompson prefers a .451. They have a variety of brass that they use, but the bullets I cast for all of them can all be from the same moulds. Granted, not all .45 are compatible, but I don't yet have anything that takes a .458.
I keep mainly .451 guns because I can run a large casting run of one type of bullet and save time over running multiple smaller bullets. I may run two or three moulds at the same time, but I can run at full speed and I don't have to spend a moment worrying that I might mix up a .458 and a .451.
From the .45, I do break out a bit. I've got .309 and .312 for the .30-06 and Mosins, both of which I have tested, but keep the .312s in thier own area to avoid mixup. .356 for the .380's of family members, buckshot molds from LEE and I've even got a shot maker to make new shot in a pinch.
I still buy in new bullets, but having the ability to cast new saves me money when I want to divert funds to a new project.
I use steel traps when target practicing to reclaim most of the lead and buy pure scrap lead whenever possible, which has given me quite a store for casting.
For reloading, I keep the common used ones set up on their own dedicated presses and an extra one that rotates through the oddball sizes that family have. The rifle sizes each have their own rifle press and I've got a MEC-9000g in both 12 and 20. All of the extra presses save me hours of switching time a year and I let trusted friends and relatives use them, usually for a trade of consumables.
Though I still buy in new ammunition, keeping all my equipment at the ready makes it much easier to practice. Run 100-150 rounds through a revolver, drop the brass in the tumbler, clean the revolver, dump the brass in the press and start cranking out new rounds and in about an hour from the start I've got two to three replenished boxes. Add fifteen minutes or so every other session to check brass length and I'm still saving money. All of my personal economy, common group of sizes and trading has saved me more than I've spent on equipment.
I am pretty much of the opinion that if the SHTF and it came right down to it, I want to be loaded up with 2 different things: ammunition and silver. The ammunition would be entirely for two different purposes - self defense and the ability to feed my wife and me with small game. The notion of bringing the fight to other people strikes me as suicidal given my age and physical fitness (or lack thereof), but the idea of being able to make people think twice when messing with me and mine makes a lot of sense to me.
With that in mind, I have a few boxes of .22 lr and a tack driver of a rifle for taking rabbits, squirrels, birds, or the neighbor's cat if it came right down to it.
For self defense, my wife and I both have identical FNP-9 handguns that carry high capacity magazines, are very reliable and simple to learn. I bought the 2nd one specifically so that she would only have to learn one gun.
More important is being able to feed them is the SHTF scenario came. To that end, I found a Dillon SDB reloading press and a whole bunch of brass for great prices locally on Craigslist, all the powder and primers I need for 4 or 5K rounds at Cabela's and a couple thousand bullets ranging from FMJ target/practice to pulled Federal HST 124 gr. JHPs for anything in dire need of getting shot. I also have probably 100 pounds of lead or so to cast my own bullets along with the melting pot and mould(s).
For any of you that are reloaders out there that are interested in preparing for a SHTF world, you can find pulled Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot bullets from time to time for reloading in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP at Rocky Mountain Reloading - http://www.RMRBullets.com and other sites as well. In order of preference, I prefer the HST from Federal, the SXT Ranger T from Winchester, and the Gold Dot from Speer. They are all very capable of ripping big nasty holes, regardless of caliber. Last time I bought HSTs from RMR, I think I paid $130 for 1000 bullets. For those of you paying $28 for a box of 20, I like my way better. :)
Last thing regarding 5.56 vs 7.62, I don't currently have either, but I think I would prefer the 7.62. I get all the arguments for the 5.56 (more muzzle velocity, tumbling bullets upon impact, lighter weight, more accuracy at distance), but I can't see any scenario where I'd likely being fighting in an open field. The 7.62 is accurate enough, goes through walls and hits like a ton of bricks. The only thing where I would mark the 7.62 down on is the heavier weight, meaning being able to carry fewer rounds on the run.
Lastly, reloading my own means that I am more capable of being able to fend for myself. It's actually kind of fun, and it makes shooting a helluva lot less expensive. I would encourage anyone concerned about this subject to get a press and the supplies needed to become more reliant on yourself and less on others.
Just my $0.02.
Same mags. Also if you work at a job that you have to carry a weapon a good bet is to by that. Combat action drills and muscle memory are a good thing. I worked with 1911 and M9 that's why I own them.
Incidentally, the SKS I regard as a better platform, as it uses the same round but can also be a more accurate shooter if so-equipped. You just have to stick to the Russian or Yugoslav ones rather than the Chinese Red Army crap.
You are correct about seeing that at local ranges. The however is that they may have 1-200 rounds (for the most part) at home to go with that weapon. We burnt HUGH stockpiles of the 5.56 in the last 15 years and now training ammo is tight and STRAC is being reduced. Also, the 5.56 has only been around for 50 years now the 7.62x39 has about 30 years on it and 20 million revolutionaries and a couple hundred government. BTW the Israeli liked both the M16 and the AK47, that how the Galil rifle was born.
Why, because I just might want to!
And ammo is still relatively cheap and plentiful.
I can get 50-9mm for $11 and 500-.22 for $20
Thus... the cost of buying high quality ammo isn't as bad as the taxes or shipping that apply to 'anything' so I concentrate on stuff that I can re-use 5-15 times.
Fortunately, I discovered reloading and my horizons opened up.