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Commonize your Ammo

Posted by jarmans 2 years, 9 months ago to Going Galt
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People who like firearms usually buy many different types. Under an ammunition constrained environment, a vast array of different calibers and gauges would be optimal. However that is also a nightmare under ‘Preppers’ law. I have chosen just a few calibers and gauges to communize on:
.22 – fits both rifle and pistol, carry a lot of ammo and contrary to folk myth, can kill.
.45/9mm – pistol cartridge, been around for over 100 years each so there are billions of rounds out there.
12/20 gauge – hunting and home defense ( I never saw a round from a box marked ‘Target Ammo’ stop when shot at a person) OO-B will kill, # 8/9 shot will make Swiss cheese and hurt them a lot.
7.62x39 – the assault weapons.
7.62x54 – the suppressive fire weapons.
30-.06 – my LOOONG range shooter (1400m)


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  • Posted by  $  Susanne 2 years, 9 months ago
    Cut it down further.

    --Either-- 45ACP or 9mm. Why have different rounds for the same purpose? Go one way or the other and stock up. (Or go with 10MM and reload your own - everything from pussycat rounds to a competent pistol hunting round).

    Same with Shotguns - Pick 12 OR 20 ga. Either is fine, but if you divest, say with one gun in each, split your ammo, and then one gun goes TU? You just cut your ammo supply in half.

    I could go further - with the AK vs .308 vs 30.06 - you can build an AR10 that will cycle fine with light load rounds. the .308 is a reach out and touch someone round. But having all 3 calibers - well, same problem as the shotguns above.

    My caveat - I do have firearms in other calibers. I have one in a Weatherby Magnum that will dispatch any dangerous game on this continent and ammo to match - but it is a built-like-a-tank bolt action and kept for the purpose of dispatching bear, elk, moose, etc. (As Boris says - "Is moose and un-squirrel gun"...).

    And of course 22. Gotta have it. Bricks and bricks of ammo. Because it's awfully expensive practicing with a 375 Wby Mag round... and it WILL turn Rocky into Squirrelburger.

    BTW - nothing wrong with a QUALITY air rifle/pistol as well - silent, and still deadly against small game.
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  • Posted by starznbarz 2 years, 9 months ago
    I had a neighbor that came by and showed me his whiz bang AR clone, he had stuff bolted all over it, lasers, scopes,flashlight, etc.. He said when TSHTF that was gonna be his git gun, asked me what I would use, showed him my old (really old) AR7 and a equally old 9 shot wheel gun, he didnt outright laugh, but asked what I would do with that, so I told him. I can carry 1000 rounds in my pocket, plenty of water and other essentials to stay mobile for a very long time, that AR 7 will feed and protect me from a long distance - everything shot in the ear drops. I asked how he thought he could carry ammo for his swiss army rifle, along with other essentials and survive in the swamps in August. He didnt want to talk about it anymore.
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  • Posted by Herb7734 2 years, 9 months ago
    Being elderly and a mere shadow of my former strength, I cannot use anything that requires much hand or arm power. As a result, the BW and I are becoming more proficient with revolvers.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 years, 9 months ago
    Actually, the 7.62 x 54 and 30-06 can do the same job, so I'd recommend picking either one. The difference in ballistics often cited is due to the then innovative boat-tailed bullets of the 06 when it first hit the market. Reloaded or commercial 7.62 boat-tail rounds compare favorably with the 06.
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    • Posted by 2 years, 9 months ago
      A BAR was not available I have a VEPR, bipod, carry handle for suppressive fire. M1917 custom w/ glass pack and scope for long distance shooting. this works for me
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  • Posted by  $  jchristyatty 2 years, 9 months ago
    Jerry Miculek iisn't just fast he also is very accurate...as is his wife and daughter. They are spokespersons for Smith and Wesson and all have been competition shooters for years. One of the best shooters I have ever witnessed.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 2 years, 9 months ago
    I have somewhat of the same philosophy, but angled toward my environment and sporting.

    I like the low cost of the 7.62x54r rounds, and I have a Mosin Nagant that was never previously issued (arsenal-grade) and I carefully removed it's beautiful yet commie-utilitarian in a made-from-plywood kind of look wood stock and replaced with an Archangel stock/magazine setup. It's a little 'long' but plucking a soda can at 500 yards is pretty easy with the scope I equipped it with and that round will go through a cinder block. The downside of the 7.62x54 (and the 7.62x39) is that if you don't spend a lot of money on actual brass for those, the advantage to using them is the military surplus, but you can only reload a steel case a couple of times.

    Agreed, my .45 Glock and my .45 cal HighPoint carbine are interchangeable. The HighPoint carbine is very nice in that respect, its quick to use with the holographic on it and its quite the little plinking gun at close range for small game hunting. The .45 rounds are plentiful and very easy to reload. I'm not big on handguns, I have a few, but they are just not really my 'thing'. I also have a couple of .44 magnum carbines - a Ruger .44 mag and a lever-action Winchester (my 'cowboy' rifle) in .44 magnum. I don't think I've ever shot either of those, both were more for invest & hold.

    Where we diverge is the 30-.06, for big game hunting here in the west, it just doesn't have the combination of reach and punch, so I generally prefer the .300 win mag. I also have a .308 semi-auto, but I'm kind of in the market to trade that one out for either a .300 Win Mag or .338 Win Mag bolt. The thing I do like about the .300 round though is the very 'cheap' brass cost, and its very easy to load with my Hornady setup. Reach-wise, on the prairie, the 30-06, although a good slugging gun, doesn't have the reach.

    I'm planning a hunting trip to British Columbia in a couple of years and I can't bring a semi-auto across the border, so hence the interest in a long-reach bolt. It's actually cheaper (pretty much) to go elk hunting in Canada as a tourist than a non-resident license in a neighboring state.

    You are missing the .223/5.56 though, rounds are as cheap as dirt, and my AR-15 with its night scope, flash suppressor, stainless steel fluted barrel, and the 30-round mag is very, very sinister looking. For shooting at the range all day, my AR and my High Point are really the only ones that can stand up to it. A typical sporting rifle will get a little squirrelly after a couple of dozen rounds (heat becomes a problem).
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 years, 9 months ago
    I decided to commonize my ammo and weapons a few months back.
    It seems to me that the 9mm pistol round is most likely to weather a leftist ammo purge in both availability and price because it is used by the military and is favored by police with semiautos.
    I now have a 9mm pocket pistol and a larger 9mm with more ammo in the clip used as the "car gun" in my glove compartment. My planned next purchase is a 9mm rifle with a lot of shots.
    Each month I add more to my 9mm ammo stash.
    I also have a .12-gauge pump that I over a decade ago bought when invited to a dove shoot and now keep beside my bed.
    For 21 years I had to "NRA qualify" with the same type shotgun for the prison job I've retired from. So I'm quite handy with a pump.
    I recently bought a pair of "buy one get one free" bandoliers that hold shotgun shells. Soon I'll have both fully loaded so as to appear to be the Frito Bandino some of you may remember in old TV commercials.
    Another recent purchase is a kid-sized Red Ryder air rifle that I can shoot straight if the butt is against the ball of my shoulder.
    Next I think I'll add a crossbow with which I can hunt silently if there should ever be a need for that.
    I've squirrels galore! Unfortunately, I've never used a crossbow before.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 2 years, 9 months ago
      I have one (a crossbow), I'd recommend a conventional compound/hunting bow and become proficient with it.
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 years, 9 months ago
        I'll consider that.
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        • Posted by scojohnson 2 years, 9 months ago
          A crossbow is kind of hard to hunt with, you need to obviously be rather close when bow hunting, carrying the crossbow with the stock and the bow limbs on either side of it with a scope/etc. and the arrow quiver is not the most 'elegant' way to move through some brush. When you have to arm it, a large one usually has a stirrup for your feet and you have to stand up with it, again, not exactly stealthy. The bolts are not ubiquitously available either, as most states don't allow them for hunting, only for sport shooting.
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          • Posted by  $  allosaur 2 years, 9 months ago
            Save for being with some guys at an occasional dove shoot, I'm not a hunter.
            I'm thinking of being forced to hunt to eat should there be a huge economic collapse or a similar disaster.
            At that point states will be too busy with food riots to worry about solitary hunters.
            I want the tools to silently hunt so some large group of thugs won't come and rip off my kill and maybe also kill me.
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            • Posted by scojohnson 2 years, 9 months ago
              Same argument, in my experience, you can re-use an arrow maybe 20% of the time after a hunt (if used), rarely does the prey go straight-down, and they bend it up. The broad heads, also zip. I've never hunted with the crossbow, but I would assume, and I would also be very surprised if the range is really as good as a good quality bow. I would say the crossbow is probably easier to shoot, but stalking/etc., you need something to shoot at. The lift & draw motion of a conventional bow is just more stealthy. That being said, a small person or someone with disabilities would find hunting with a crossbow easier, but I think that is largely the advantage of them.

              For example, if in a tree stand, would you bend over, put it down on your feet through the stirrups, and pull upward, while trying to somehow not fall out of the tree? I'd rather just pull back on the bow string. That's primarily my point. Keep in mind, it's not the only thing you would have with you - the quiver, supplies, a backpack, camo, maybe a light jacket on, etc.

              It may work for some people, and I can't hunt with one here, but its my speculation based on shooting with mine. It wouldn't be my first choice.
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          • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 2 years, 9 months ago
            It takes a bit of practice and effort but so does shooting any kind of firearm. The stalk or hide methods require a bit of practice ....nothing you wouldn't do with a rifle. Off season use a camera. Not for city folk.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 2 years, 9 months ago
    Reloading is a fun and useful hobby, and nobody knows what you have as long as you pay cash and you are not in one of the "progressive" states. I have moved to Utah from the PRC (People's Republic of California). When I still lived in the PRC I was visiting Utah and decided to buy some powder and primers. When I went to the counter to pay I said that I was from California and I was not sure what ID I needed to show to buy this stuff. They said "credit card, or cash".
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  • Posted by 2 years, 9 months ago
    There are many rules to combat, one I follow: Shoot a person with a kill shot and they go down, gut shoot a person and they demoralize the rest of the attackers also if they are so inclined it takes two more to take them away.

    #8/9 bird shot may not go far and not kill at long distance but it server it purpose well in home/ground base defense.
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    • Posted by DrZarkov99 2 years, 9 months ago
      The bird shot is lethal at the 5-7 yard ranges common in home defense situations, more likely to hit the target effectively than buck shot, which can scatter. That sounds counter-intuitive to most people, but there's lots of testing to back it up.
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  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 2 years, 9 months ago
    Too many calibers. but I see you found the same comradely term.

    .22? Agreed and then some.
    .45 nothing better for multiple reasons
    12 ga. #4Buck is a better choice.
    .30-06 another nice selection.

    A complete list for the USA.. In the rest of the world similiar choices have to be made to match what is available.

    .22/.45 combo pistol wihich changes barrels in long slide knocks you down to one side arm. both can be used with suppressors.
    one .22 rifle won't add that much weight to your collection.

    Likewise 12 gauge provides for a variety by changing ammuntion not the weapon that includes slugs for close in or brush hunting as opposed to another rifle caliber.
    30-06 if you can find a star barrel model is a dream shooter.

    so that makes three long barrels and one short barrel weapon collection and all fit and don't look out of place.
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  • Posted by jsw225 2 years, 9 months ago
    If you're so concerned with consolidating your ammo, you need to take into account the ammo you're most likely to find (should the world fall apart). Pulling it off the top of my head, the popularity / likelihood of finding it is:

    1.) .22 Rimfire
    2.) 12 Gauge.
    3.) 5.56 centerfire.
    4.) 9mm Parabellum
    5.) .45 ACP
    6.) .30-06 Springfield.
    7.) .38 Special
    8.) 7.62x39 (AK ammo)
    9.) 7.62x54R
    10.) .223 centerfire
    11.) .380 ACP
    12.) .357 Magnum
    13.) .40 auto
    14.) 44 magnum
    15.) .270
    16.) ...

    This list has been scientifically researched (complete guess).
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  • Posted by  $  Radio_Randy 2 years, 9 months ago
    The 5.56 and .223 caliber rifles are some of the most popular firearms in the county, therefore, an excellent choice in my mind.
    The .45 1911 pistol is also exceptionally popular and has been around for over 100 years.
    The .380 is becoming more popular and is extremely concealable.
    The .38/.357 magnum is used in both revolvers and rifle...quite common and very easily reloaded.
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  • Posted by Domminigan 2 years, 9 months ago
    An expanded reply:
    I do practice a form of conformity in my stores, but it's mainly because I get greater value from my time that I do spend.
    I keep lots of .22 that I've purchased slowly years ago. I have put untold thousands through my 10-22s, and I have a few revolvers that take .22. I also have a reloading kit that does a fair job of casting new bullet heads and reloading them. It's a bit tedious, which is why I prefer to buy .22 but it is fun around a campfire.
    I have similar backpack-sized reloading kits for every caliber I use. A LEE loader and a two bullet mould for the gun I am carrying is always part of what I take with me just in case I get stuck somewhere.
    I use .45 across the bulk of my equipment. The black powder revolvers are all .451, my personal semiauto handguns are all .451, even my Thompson prefers a .451. They have a variety of brass that they use, but the bullets I cast for all of them can all be from the same moulds. Granted, not all .45 are compatible, but I don't yet have anything that takes a .458.
    I keep mainly .451 guns because I can run a large casting run of one type of bullet and save time over running multiple smaller bullets. I may run two or three moulds at the same time, but I can run at full speed and I don't have to spend a moment worrying that I might mix up a .458 and a .451.
    From the .45, I do break out a bit. I've got .309 and .312 for the .30-06 and Mosins, both of which I have tested, but keep the .312s in thier own area to avoid mixup. .356 for the .380's of family members, buckshot molds from LEE and I've even got a shot maker to make new shot in a pinch.
    I still buy in new bullets, but having the ability to cast new saves me money when I want to divert funds to a new project.
    I use steel traps when target practicing to reclaim most of the lead and buy pure scrap lead whenever possible, which has given me quite a store for casting.

    For reloading, I keep the common used ones set up on their own dedicated presses and an extra one that rotates through the oddball sizes that family have. The rifle sizes each have their own rifle press and I've got a MEC-9000g in both 12 and 20. All of the extra presses save me hours of switching time a year and I let trusted friends and relatives use them, usually for a trade of consumables.

    Though I still buy in new ammunition, keeping all my equipment at the ready makes it much easier to practice. Run 100-150 rounds through a revolver, drop the brass in the tumbler, clean the revolver, dump the brass in the press and start cranking out new rounds and in about an hour from the start I've got two to three replenished boxes. Add fifteen minutes or so every other session to check brass length and I'm still saving money. All of my personal economy, common group of sizes and trading has saved me more than I've spent on equipment.
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  • Posted by jimslag 2 years, 9 months ago
    I have the first 3, .22 was a gun my father had and I inherited, 9mm my EDC and 12 gauge loaded with 00B. If they come in my house uninvited, they are only going out in a coroner's van. Sorry, but I worked for what I have and I plan on keeping it for a while. (EDC- Every Day Carry) (00B - Double ought Buck, large pellets but only about 9 per shell, will kill and leave a very large hole center mass)
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  • Posted by IamTheBeav 2 years, 9 months ago
    I never expected to see this subject addressed here in the Gulch, it is one that I have considered myself.

    I am pretty much of the opinion that if the SHTF and it came right down to it, I want to be loaded up with 2 different things: ammunition and silver. The ammunition would be entirely for two different purposes - self defense and the ability to feed my wife and me with small game. The notion of bringing the fight to other people strikes me as suicidal given my age and physical fitness (or lack thereof), but the idea of being able to make people think twice when messing with me and mine makes a lot of sense to me.

    With that in mind, I have a few boxes of .22 lr and a tack driver of a rifle for taking rabbits, squirrels, birds, or the neighbor's cat if it came right down to it.

    For self defense, my wife and I both have identical FNP-9 handguns that carry high capacity magazines, are very reliable and simple to learn. I bought the 2nd one specifically so that she would only have to learn one gun.

    More important is being able to feed them is the SHTF scenario came. To that end, I found a Dillon SDB reloading press and a whole bunch of brass for great prices locally on Craigslist, all the powder and primers I need for 4 or 5K rounds at Cabela's and a couple thousand bullets ranging from FMJ target/practice to pulled Federal HST 124 gr. JHPs for anything in dire need of getting shot. I also have probably 100 pounds of lead or so to cast my own bullets along with the melting pot and mould(s).

    For any of you that are reloaders out there that are interested in preparing for a SHTF world, you can find pulled Federal HST and Speer Gold Dot bullets from time to time for reloading in 9mm, .40 S&W, and .45 ACP at Rocky Mountain Reloading - http://www.RMRBullets.com and other sites as well. In order of preference, I prefer the HST from Federal, the SXT Ranger T from Winchester, and the Gold Dot from Speer. They are all very capable of ripping big nasty holes, regardless of caliber. Last time I bought HSTs from RMR, I think I paid $130 for 1000 bullets. For those of you paying $28 for a box of 20, I like my way better. :)

    Last thing regarding 5.56 vs 7.62, I don't currently have either, but I think I would prefer the 7.62. I get all the arguments for the 5.56 (more muzzle velocity, tumbling bullets upon impact, lighter weight, more accuracy at distance), but I can't see any scenario where I'd likely being fighting in an open field. The 7.62 is accurate enough, goes through walls and hits like a ton of bricks. The only thing where I would mark the 7.62 down on is the heavier weight, meaning being able to carry fewer rounds on the run.

    Lastly, reloading my own means that I am more capable of being able to fend for myself. It's actually kind of fun, and it makes shooting a helluva lot less expensive. I would encourage anyone concerned about this subject to get a press and the supplies needed to become more reliant on yourself and less on others.

    Just my $0.02.
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 2 years, 9 months ago
      Some of this stuff is second nature to those of us blessed with being raised in the country. I'm not much for cities though I have coped in many of the largest. But I always feel sorry for those stuck there forever.
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    • Posted by 2 years, 9 months ago
      All good info. Mine is not for the offensive but the defensive. as for the AK, I faced them on three different continents and you can get 10 minutes of training and hit targets with an AK. Anyone been to basic knows it takes a while to master the M16.
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  • Posted by jimjamesjames 2 years, 9 months ago
    When I was hauling fluids in the gas fields of Wyoming and ND and the money was rolling in, I bought a lot of guns and ammo. .22s, .223s,(AR-15, Mini 14) 7.62 AKs, .308 (for elk), 9mms (Glocks, Springfields, Kimbers), .40s (S&W Sigma, didn't like it), .45 ACPs (Kimber, Taurus, Para). It occurred to me that when the SHTF, I'd be strapped as to which ones to grab, so I sold off some and kept the AK rifle, AK pistol (couple dozen 48-round magazines for both), Glock 19 (2) my "carry" guns, including 33-round mags, and the ParaOrdnance .45 Warthog (3-inch barrel). The best thing I did is get a lot (15,000) of .22 when it was cheap, $60 a case of 5000 which now go for $300 and up (saw some for $900) 9mm, about 5000, 7.62, 8000, .45, around 2000. My wife and I shoot a few rounds weekly (off our deck)
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  • Posted by  $  Tap2Golf 2 years, 9 months ago
    Excellent! Makes stocking up a lot easier when you are "communized". I'm a 9mm girl myself. and 22lr for plinking. Makes it easy to go shopping. Thanks for sharing. Extra loaded mags are a good thing. And practice, practice, practice!
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    • Posted by 2 years, 9 months ago
      I go with the 45, my wife the 9mm. Also, when I buy I get 2-3 of the same model. parts and redundancy.
      Same mags. Also if you work at a job that you have to carry a weapon a good bet is to by that. Combat action drills and muscle memory are a good thing. I worked with 1911 and M9 that's why I own them.
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  • Posted by 2 years, 9 months ago
    45/9mm controversy, if SHTF happens then we will probable have some 'OUTSIDE' assisting (read occupying) force. The 9mm has been around for over 100 years and there are trillions of rounds. Train with your weapon, use their ammo. The same thing for the choice of the 7.62 weapons a big chunk of the world has these rounds, there are only a few that use the 5.56 US round. BTW for CQB and urban conflict under 200 meters the AK type weapons have a distinct edge. Granted in open ground the M16 based have the advantage
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    • Posted by ChuckyBob 2 years, 9 months ago
      I've thought about this on the same lines. However, when "liberating" ammo from an occupier, or using found ammo in a SHTF scenario you have to be careful. During the US exploits in Southeast Asia when an enemy ammo dump was found our forces sometimes would replace some of the ammo with rounds that were loaded with the intent of blowing up the enemy's weapons. So, if you're in an SHTF situation and you are lucky enough to find some ammo you should pull some bullets and weigh/inspect the powder. Also, I would be tempted to get out my scale and weigh as many of the rounds as possible just to be sure.
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    • Posted by scojohnson 2 years, 9 months ago
      The primary advantage of an AK is that you can throw the thing in the mud, back a dually over it, pick it up and use it again. In the US though, while not being 'uncommon', they are not common either. I can go to the neighborhood 30-stall indoor rifle range, everyone will be there with a hunting rifle of some sort, half will have an AR-15 in a case on the floor, and maybe 1 or 2 might have an AK at home somewhere

      Incidentally, the SKS I regard as a better platform, as it uses the same round but can also be a more accurate shooter if so-equipped. You just have to stick to the Russian or Yugoslav ones rather than the Chinese Red Army crap.
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      • Posted by 2 years, 9 months ago
        For the AK, I stick to milled receivers and they are milled to similar tolerance as the M16. The same for the SKS, stick to the milled. Stamped crap is just that.

        You are correct about seeing that at local ranges. The however is that they may have 1-200 rounds (for the most part) at home to go with that weapon. We burnt HUGH stockpiles of the 5.56 in the last 15 years and now training ammo is tight and STRAC is being reduced. Also, the 5.56 has only been around for 50 years now the 7.62x39 has about 30 years on it and 20 million revolutionaries and a couple hundred government. BTW the Israeli liked both the M16 and the AK47, that how the Galil rifle was born.
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        • Posted by scojohnson 2 years, 9 months ago
          Eh, that may be the difference, I'm in California, the taxes on it make stockpiling kind of prohibitive, I just recycle it, but I have 1000s of rounds to work with.
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          • Posted by 2 years, 9 months ago
            I'm sorry. I live in North 'BY GOD!' Carolina, where you can go into a Walmart at 2 in the morning and buy a Mossberg shotgun.

            Why, because I just might want to!

            And ammo is still relatively cheap and plentiful.
            I can get 50-9mm for $11 and 500-.22 for $20
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            • Posted by scojohnson 2 years, 9 months ago
              .45ACP, I'll pay about $25 for 50 rounds of the Blazer aluminum jacket crap. .223 brass-jacket locally would be well over $270 for 500 rounds, but I ship it in from a shop in Las Vegas for about about $180 including shipping or make a 90 minute drive to the free city of Reno.

              Thus... the cost of buying high quality ammo isn't as bad as the taxes or shipping that apply to 'anything' so I concentrate on stuff that I can re-use 5-15 times.
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  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 2 years, 9 months ago
    I actually looked up the word and it's there big as life in all the latest PC dictionaries. A close cousin of communize. To make things the same through intentional processing. LMAO
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