The population of Atlantis in AS was counted one at a time. It was a very small number compared to the massive population not in Atlantis.

Conscious humans only have a chance in a society that would let those who do not work starve to death. When the size of human hearts exceed the size of human brains, those with brains had better run off in search of a new place.

I'm with you Carl. I'm completely disappointed that more than a million people voted to move us to a socialist or fascist government. There are so many people that are busy being entertained, not paying attention, oblivious to what it all means and they will be blaming the capitalists when it all comes crashing down. It is truly sad that we are on this path. Atlas Shrugged really is no longer fiction.

Who...is John Galt?

YoungatheartCarl, I am disappointed, as I read Rand at a young age and looked forward eagerly to a world like the Gulch. I have found that those heroes exist, but in much smaller numbers than I had hoped. That's why I take much pleasure in my interactions with people here in this Gulch.
I don't see people changing. I think the decent, responsible people, the makers, have always been in the minority. I would just like to have the makers be free to produce and live, and I would like to see the morality of the producers recognized as the ideal, which hasn't been the case for a long time.

Hi Carl. I think our choices are more limited than that. I don't know if enough people will wake soon or if those of us who are awake will be able to make a difference. Keep fighting the fight.

I don't know that it could get worse than 2 terms of the Obamanation.

Like when Carter was President...anything would have looked better. We just got lucky with Reagan.

As I see it, there is less dichotomy, generally speaking, than in all the previous history of this country. It looks to me as if the entire thinking has slewed to the left, and even those things considered to be moderately conservative, are what was called liberal just a few years back. When a person such a Cruz is contrasted with a Sanders, then, the sway of current thinking becomes very clear. When I first started voting, Cruz would have been considered a moderate and Sanders would not have been considered at all.

This is probably the last election where we have the socialists vs the capitalists to choose from. If Hillary gets in, our country is on an irreversible course for socialism.
There are the people who are angry with what the federal government has done under Obama, and are making a last stand by voting for Trump.
Then you have the true socialists who vote for Sanders,
The entrenched establishment people vote for Hildebeast.

The INTENSE hatred for Trump is the establishment's reaction to his brash and politically incorrect views of the establishment.

The incredible love for Hildebeast in spite of her obvious crimes comes from the people who want the goodies given to them by the establishment continued and expanded.

The acceptance of Sanders comes from the younger people who arent getting the establishment goodies, but want them.

Its a real mess. It IS a war between the people who want freebies and the ones who will be tapped to provide them. The productive people are losing the battle, just as in Atlas Shrugged. We cant play by their rules and win, which Dagny and Hank Rearden found out the hard way.
Unfortunately, the pressure against Trump appears to be too great for him to be even nominated. I will still vote for him as a last stand against the inevitable tide.
That leaves the establishment pushing us towards more socialism run by wall street, and true socialism run by Sanders and the young people who have been steeped in it during their schooling.

On the original comment, no, we are left or right, there is really nothing in between. I think the ones that are 'independent' or 'decline to state' are only saying that because they work for the government in a party other than what they vote, are union members and don't want to be, etc.

As you can see the way the government is functioning is as those employed at the highest levels are delighted. Having the divide means that they will have to work at correcting the situation; of course they do not know or maybe they do that they created the situation in the first place. It really matters not what government employees get involved with they always screw things up. The problem the thinkers have to deal with is the fact that 80- percent of the population is comprised of non-thinkers so they just accept what ever is presented to them. welcome to the land mass generally referred to as america.

At some point, the answer has to be that if you want to vote you need to be a net contributor to society. If you can vote yourself bread and circuses at someone else's expense, enough always will....

To understand this, you really only have to look at the incredible difference between the generations. These are not 100%, but on a macro level, the era in which we come of age makes a big difference -

The WW2 Generation, unfortunately, probably doesn't vote in large numbers at this point.

The baby boomers are kind of evenly split, some grew up missing key loved ones in their lives, others went off to war in Vietnam, many others dodged the draft and smoked dope. I don't know if we can draw a target, but in my experience the baby boomers were very liberal previously but are generally becoming more conservative now when on fixed incomes.

Generation X (my group), quite honestly, we really did invent the Internet and are not only over-achievers, but we over-achieve in a balloon and popping kind of way. We were / are entrepreneurs in much greater numbers than previous generations. We didn't startup mom & pop shops, we built companies with 200, 500, 750 people. Our idea of national conflict was the Persian Gulf War, with the direct result of our love of and faith in technology. We kicked the crap out of the 3rd or 4th largest army in the world in a few days, then came home. We lived through the Clinton Years with Monica Lewinsky, the Bimbo Eruption, and Hillary's Healthcare Proposals (and she was never an elected or appointed official - she was just a 'volunteer'. We have also watched our dot-com investment portfolios drop so fast we could have lit a match & thrown the money into campfires, we watched our $500,000+ homes crash to 30 or 40% of their original value, we raised our kids with too much of a protective element, and we are still persevering. On average, despite a much higher than ever before savings and investment rate, because of the 3 major recessions we have lived through in our careers, we have a smaller nest-egg overall than our elders. We also like luxury items (I'm not going to lie). As a voting group, we tend to be much more conservative. Our experiences have taught us to pick ourselves up, dust ourselves off, and tackle adversity again. As a group, I think we were less-educated on average than our predecessors, we didn't have the necessity of hiding in college and smoking dope to avoid a draft, our parents (baby boomers), quite honestly were self-centered and didn't help much with our coming of age, college expenses, etc... so we had to get it done, get out and get a job.

Generation Y - Not sure about these folks, similar to Generation X, just kind of under-achievers. They probably feel like they got there too late, and were not part of the first wave of information innovation, and were not part of the second either. Unfortunately, I think their job prospects and experiences have not been kind.

Millennials - This is the 'everyone gets a trophy' generation. If you participate, you are already a winner. Who pays for all of those trophies? They drop from heaven and everyone must have a money-tree out back. They don't want to flip burgers for $7.00 an hour (Generation X did it for $3.35), so they need $15.00 to ask if you want fries with that. This is a very bizarre group, they don't consider getting another (better paying) job as an option in their career growth, they want to stand there and wait to be noticed and get a raise. They also don't want to stand there very long, or spend more than 30 seconds without checking in on Facebook. Mixing Millennials and Generation X in the work place has been a natural-born conflict. A Gen X or a Boomer will figure out something to do without direction, Millennials want to be told what to do, or they sit there. Literally. If you assign them something, they want a demonstration of how to do it. "Figure it Out" is not something in their lexicon. I really trace this to the 'everyone gets a trophy' thing. When I was a kid, we had winners and losers, the winners got the cute girl and the football trophy and a scholarship. The losers went home and started a business mowing lawns to pay for school (and they became dot-com entrepreneurs later). They seem to take this thing of "we're already all winners" into the workplace... they got a job, now they are set, they don't need to prove themselves again every day.

So when it comes to politics, we see the boomers probably evenly split. Generation X is overtly and overly Republican, we have already figured out we are self-reliant and we would rather trust ourselves than outside influences. If you notice, the democrats have already figured that out, and they don't market to the Gen-X predominate industries, neighborhoods or social groups. Generation Y & Millennials seem to be the liberals' target. Each election, its more free-shit being promised that is aimed toward their groups (pay off your student loans, all college should be free for everyone, etc.). Gen X is smart enough to know that with our $500k+ homes and $100k+ incomes, we're going to get soaked.

The interesting wrinkle in this is that automation may make it possible to provide a subsistence living for all at minimal cost. Free education is pretty cheap to offer when it is viewing of recorded classes on Kahn Academy. Automated medical bots can make basic healthcare close to free. Given our technology, we will not need the totalitarian state to provide for all. That will not stop many from trying to grab the power for other reasons....

It will be simply awesome to see the open discussion from these two sides (If they make it), rather than the mealy-mouthed hints and non-positions taken by the middle.

I just can't wait for Bernie to be forced to explain where all the money will come from, stand up for the complete inefficiency of the government, and stand up for the freedom he wants to take from the people. If Cruz had any Charisma, he could wipe the floor with Sanders. Maybe he'll pick Gary Johnson to run with him, or some excellent, charismatic woman.