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  • 18
    Posted by Mamaemma 8 years ago
    The employer- employee relationship is one entered into by both using their free will.either has the right to sever that agreement. The government has no right to have any say.
    A year ago I forced a long term employee because I just got sick and tired of her attitude.
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    • Posted by 8 years ago
      A lot of people are supporting this person on social media. I support her as well but this story has played out before. What she said was accurate but the station is caving to the PC crowd. She should have seen it coming.
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      • 11
        Posted by Mamaemma 8 years ago
        I feel great anger and disgust at the insanities being caused by caving to political correctness. I am not a Trump supporter, but this is the anger that is driving his success.
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        • Posted by 8 years ago
          He is a master showman and is playing off of it. This is a strange primary. We could actually see people other than anyone currently running get the Republican and Democratic nomination.
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          • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years ago
            One of my patients told me the whole thing is a "hoot". I thought that was great
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            • Posted by khalling 8 years ago
              well, if your life is a hoot, then I'd agree. But your savings, your healthcare-these things are not a "hoot"
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              • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years ago
                But considering the amount of control I have over all of that, in some ways it is a hoot. Sometimes you just have to bow to the absurd.
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                • Posted by johnpe1 8 years ago
                  I had a friend who, about 20 years ago, convinced me
                  to "invest" fourteen thousand dollars in a currency
                  exchange-rate thing with a supposedly-reputable
                  company. . slick brochure;;; "proven history" of doubling
                  or quintupling everyone's money -- and it had worked
                  for my friend. . a week later, I had a balance of zero dollars
                  and dropped out of it. . sometimes you just have to
                  bow to the absurd. -- j
                  .
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                  • Posted by Mamaemma 8 years ago
                    It's very hard for me to accept my lack of control over many things....
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                    • Posted by johnpe1 8 years ago
                      me, too! . I had a precious metals investment firm advise me
                      to move from gold and silver to platinum and palladium,
                      about 2 years ago ... with a thirteen percent handling fee.
                      stupid me said yes. . Pt/Pd went up briefly, and then settled back
                      into their stable zone like gold and silver. . had I stayed with Au/Ag,
                      I would have been many dollars ahead. . did it to myself,
                      and I would love to say the name of the bunch who suckered
                      me into it ... but ....... -- j

                      p.s. the value of the Pt/Pd is now only 60 percent of the
                      original account balance.
                      .
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      • Posted by strugatsky 8 years ago
        Don't feel too sorry for her. She was part of the problem for years; this time she's the victim, but did the same to others before her. What is amazing is that every socialist / tyrannical order is full of aspiring lower ranks that will do anything to advance and take the place of their master, only to suffer the same fate as their now previous master. And the cycle just keeps repeating...
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  • 11
    Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
    Forcing the employer to keep an employee they don't want is not doing anyone a favor. I suspect in less than a year she will be doing something else and be happier then if she were working with someone who didn't really want her.
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    • Posted by johnpe1 8 years ago
      yes, it "smells" like an excuse to let her go. -- j
      .
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
        Yes. If possible she should resist the urge to speculate and focus on doing a good job. Chances are she'll be working with some of those people again. Speculating about their motivations is tempting but not productive. The important thing is for her to find someone excited to have her where she's excited to be. The old employer should do the same in finding a replacement, assuming they need one. This is much better than people sticking with a tepid business relationship.
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        • Posted by johnpe1 8 years ago
          when I told my boss that I wanted to retire, he nearly said
          that he wanted to go, too. . we met again about 4 years
          later, and he had himself retired. . moving to a better deal
          is something which we should always keep alive. -- j
          .
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    • Posted by 8 years ago
      True but the station should, in my opinion, taken more time to judge the reaction. It seems like small vocal PC groups can force companies to do things like this and in my opinion it squashes debate on key issues. She is a good anchor and will land on her feet but I'm thinking it should have been handled differently.
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      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years ago
        The good thing is they're not the gatekeepers, and she can get her content out by other means.

        "small vocal PC groups"
        I think the PC thing was from the 90s, saying "callenged" instead of "disabled" and things like that. Now it's just because the way people blame their failures on others instead of on their own rudeness and disregard for the facts. Most likely I would not be interested in any media outlet that claimed to be non-PC. At best it non-PC has no meaning, and it worst it's code for blaming other people for individuals' problems.
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        • Posted by 8 years ago
          I think the issue here is that she identified the killers by race and the lives they led. There is a problem in poor communities around here with drugs and broken families and single moms who can't supervise their kids. This community happens to be black and instead of discussing that, the local conversation is about a news anchor being fired. It seems like some are saying don't discuss this or we'll come after you. PC and counter productive.
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  • Posted by edweaver 8 years ago
    Other than in a contract situation, why would the employer, employee relationship be any different than a relationship of friends. Would a friend be obligated to stay friends with someone at all costs? Once someone entered another's house as a friend, could they never be asked to leave? Just questions. :)
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    • Posted by 8 years ago
      Hi Ed. In any disagreement with a friend I give them a chance to explain themselves. The anchor involved was suspended and the station issued a public apology. The anchor then also apologized and she was still fired. Seems an over reaction to me.
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      • Posted by edweaver 8 years ago
        May be an over reaction but it is still someone's company and risk. I don't think the decision is wrong whatever the choice of the person with the risk. Keep or fire, I, nor anyone that is not involved will have all the facts. The company has all the risk and therefore needs to make the decision that they feel in in the best interest of the company. Nothing more, nothing less. My opinion, of course.
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        • Posted by 8 years ago
          You're right but it is troubling that all the conversation here is about the firing of this news anchor and not about the horrific events she was writing about. There are requests for people to stop watching so I am curious to see what happens to their ratings.
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          • Posted by edweaver 8 years ago
            I agree, at least from what we know it seems like they made a bad decision but there may be more to it than what was posted on Facebook. And it of course is possible that they made a mistake.

            Personally I think it is equally bad for people to request others boycott any organization. To me that is an individual choice. There are places that I choose not to do business with and if I was treated poorly, I will share those experiences with people but will never ask them to boycott. That is their own choice to make and asking for a boycott is vindictive.

            I did just read the Facebook post that you shared. I agree that the event was horrific. I do not understand how anyone could do such a thing.

            Chances say that the person who wrote the post will find a much better place to work really soon.
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  • Posted by jabuttrick 8 years ago
    I have not seen the posting on Facebook and I don't need to in order to analyze this. The relationship between an employer and an employee is a contract. The terms of that contract can be either oral (rare and difficult to prove) or written. Sometimes there exists an employee handbook which amplifies or supplements the terms of the contract. The duration and grounds for termination are set out in the contract. In any event, in the absence of a term in the contract dealing with an employee's Facebook posts or any other type of speech, the relationship is "at will" meaning either side can terminate it at any time for any reason unless the contract states otherwise. Some states have by common law or statute or Constitution changed this relationship to include automatically some other terms. I am disregarding those instances because I am assuming you are not interested in that. Both the employer and employee should be allowed to walk away at any time for any reason unless they have previously agreed otherwise.
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    • Posted by plusaf 8 years ago
      I completely agree, and unless those details are surfaced, there's NO way to determine if the 'firing' was 'justified' or not. It all may depend on the legalese in the contract.
      I hope someone digs down deep enough to uncover those kinds of vital facts.
      Without them, we're all just flapping our gums about the possible 'unfairness of it all' and that's a waste of oxygen.
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      • Posted by 8 years ago
        I have been away for a couple of days but when I get back I hope some more information is available. The anchor in question is locally popular and has won numerous awards. I'm thinking something else will come out soon.
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    • Posted by 8 years ago
      Thanks JA. I have talked to some people locally about this and while I think it was a bad decision the station had the right to fire her. The post should have served as a starting point for serious dicussions about what is going wrong in some of our local communities but it has devolved into a discussion about her firing and Facebook posts. You said it better than I have. I hope someone realizes it's a discussion we need to have but I doubt it will happen.
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  • Posted by RobertFl 8 years ago
    The difference here, I believe is, it was the stations Facebook page, not the employee's personal FB page.
    I say, personal page is off limits...unless your page/posts are public and your commenting as an employee.
    If it's the business page, it's theirs and they set the rules.
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  • Posted by RTM2301 8 years ago
    Regardless of contract, NO employer deserves a say in what employees do off the job. Only offenses committed on shift or truancy deserve any punishment whatsoever. People's lives and doings off work must be ungoverned at all costs, including online postings.
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    • Posted by plusaf 8 years ago
      Unless there's some stupid clause in their contract designed to protect or shield the Employer from something an employee might say or not say.

      When I took the retirement buyout offer from my last employer, it included a clause that I promised to "never publicly say anything negative about the Company after that."

      I'd just LOVE the ACLU or some similar organization's lawyers to sink their fangs into That Level of Bullshit.

      :)
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  • Posted by macnuth 8 years ago
    In a free society they should be able to say what they want within limits. If it is honest, but does no harm, then yes free speech needs to be protected. If it is purely political, and truthful, then yes protected. If purely political but deliberately false, then no protection.
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    • Posted by plusaf 8 years ago
      Fine, but if you want that to happen, you'll probably need to pursue a test case up through the Supreme Court to see it happen.

      Such is Life in The US Today.
      Sad.
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  • Posted by Zenphamy 8 years ago
    I hire a person for specific services for 40hrs/wk and pay him for those hours of services only. What he does in his personal life and with his personal identity is absolutely no business or concern of mine.
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    • Posted by plusaf 8 years ago
      Unless you're afraid of competition of negative repercussions of virtually Anything They Might Do in their 'personal time' that could 'harm you or your business.'
      Americans, both individuals and businesses, for decades now, have been seeking Perfect Safety From Everything, and this is but another page in the handbook.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 8 years ago
    Depends on the content, news anchors, radio personalities, and the like (people in the public eye) normally have applicable clauses in their employment contracts. Much like how sports figures can't embarrass their sponsors and expect to keep them. It's not a rights or free speech thing, it's contract law.
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    • Posted by 8 years ago
      I know she is upset about the firing but I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday and told her I can't believe she thought there wouldn't be some blowback from this. Any time you write or speak about race you run the risk of it being blown out of context.
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  • Posted by $ AJAshinoff 8 years ago
    Yes. If the person is a celebrity of any kind representing a company brand then anything negative he/she does can and should impact his/her employment.
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    • Posted by 8 years ago
      All true. Locally I have heard some people argue that she shouldn't be fired for a Facebook post. I told a friend of mine they have a right to fire her but in this case it was a bad decision.
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  • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years ago
    I think an employer has the right to fire anyone that does not represent his company the way he sees fit. Having said that; it should be on a rational basis and not at the waving finger of any group, especially over sensitive numskulls.
    I personally would weigh the content in context and the degree of potential physical harm inferred by the comment.

    Does anyone have a link we can view the commentary on this particular case?
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    • 10
      Posted by 8 years ago
      Hi Carl. I haven't seen it in any news stories. Someone on Facebook re-posted it. Here it is:

      Next to “If I've told you once, I've told you a thousand times,” I remember my mom most often saying to my sister and me when we were young and constantly fighting, “If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.” I've really had nothing nice to say these past 11 days and so this page has been quiet. There's no nice words to write when a coward holding an AK-47 hoses down a family and their friends sharing laughs and a mild evening on a back porch in Wilkinsburg. There's no kind words when 6 people are murdered. When their children have to hide for cover and then emerge from the frightened shadows to find their mother's face blown off or their father's twisted body leaking blood into the dirt from all the bullet holes. There's just been nothing nice to say. And I've been dragging around this feeling like a cold I can't shake that rattles in my chest each time I breathe and makes my temples throb. I don't want to hurt anymore. I'm tired of hurting.
      You needn't be a criminal profiler to draw a mental sketch of the killers who broke so many hearts two weeks ago Wednesday. I will tell you they live within 5 miles of Franklin Avenue and Ardmore Boulevard and have been hiding out since in a home likely much closer to that backyard patio than anyone thinks. They are young black men, likely teens or in their early 20s. They have multiple siblings from multiple fathers and their mothers work multiple jobs. These boys have been in the system before. They've grown up there. They know the police. They've been arrested. They've made the circuit and nothing has scared them enough. Now they are lost. Once you kill a neighbor's three children, two nieces and her unborn grandson, there's no coming back. There's nothing nice to say about that.
      But there is HOPE. And Joe and I caught a glimpse of it Saturday night. A young, African American teen hustling like nobody's business at a restaurant we took the boys to over at the Southside Works. This child stacked heavy glass glasses 10 high and carried three teetering towers of them in one hand with plates piled high in the other. He wiped off the tables. Tended to the chairs. Got down on his hands and knees to pick up the scraps that had fallen to the floor. And he did all this with a rhythm and a step that gushed positivity. He moved like a dancer with a satisfied smile on his face. And I couldn't take my eyes off him. He's going to Make It.
      When Joe paid the bill, I asked to see the manager. He came over to our table apprehensively and I told him that that young man was the best thing his restaurant had going. The manager beamed and agreed that his young employee was special. As the boys and we put on our coats and started walking out -- I saw the manager put his arm around that child's shoulder and pat him on the back in congratulation. It will be some time before I forget the smile that beamed across that young worker's face -- or the look in his eyes as we caught each other's gaze. I wonder how long it had been since someone told him he was special.
      There's someone in your life today -- a stranger you're going to come across -- who could really use that. A hand up. A warm word. Encouragement. Direction. Kindness. A Chance. We can't change what's already happened, but we can be a part of what's on the way. Speak up. Reach out. Dare to Care. Give part of You to someone else. That, my friends, can change someone's course. And then -- just maybe THEN -- I'll start feeling again like there's something nice to say.
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      • Posted by $ Olduglycarl 8 years ago
        Thanks, Rich, I don't see anything here to get fired over...it was responsibly truthful and ends on an incredibly positive note....it brought tears to my eyes because the message is true and objective.

        If I were her boss, I would of nominated this piece for some award.
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        • Posted by 8 years ago
          My concern is that the stations reaction will serve to silence honest discussions about the problems facing our local neighborhoods. I think the station is within their rights but at what cost?
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      • Posted by blackswan 8 years ago
        There are two sides to the black story in America. One is the oft-quoted line about racism and its impact. The other is the seldom quoted story of black achievement. The oft-quoted story is the face of the black community, at least as far as the world is concerned, even though only 1/3 of the black community is stuck in that morass. The seldom quoted story is the true face of the black community, because 2/3 of the black community lives in THAT story. That reporter discussed something that's been missing forever, the focus on the positive, vs. the focus on the negative. If we'd pay attention to the spunky worker, rather than the sociopathic killers, we would go a long way toward eliminating the evil and promoting the good.
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        • Posted by 8 years ago
          Well said. She was on outraging all of us to reach out and say something to encourage our youth. You never know when you'll change their path for the better. The positive part of this story is getting lost unfortunately.
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  • Posted by Watcher55 8 years ago
    Within the limits of any voluntary employment contract, an employer should be "allowed to" fire anyone for any reason, just an employee should be "allowed" to leave employment for any reason. Simply because all valid relationships between people are voluntary.

    But similar reasons mean that other people can protest - peacefully.
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  • Posted by $ Radio_Randy 8 years ago
    A young woman obtained a job with a local daycare. Within a couple days of starting her new job, she posted (on Facebook, I think) that she couldn't stand kids and hated dealing with them.
    Her employer fired her on her second day. Were they wrong???

    Honestly, I agree with Mamaemma in that an employer has the right to fire an employee for any reason...Facebook post, or otherwise.
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  • Posted by $ blarman 8 years ago
    The First Amendment guarantees the right to two separate things: both Free Speech and Association. We must tread a fine line between these two when dealing with employer-employee relations.

    The real question is this: is the employee is acting as an agent of the company or not? If they are, the company has not only a right, but a responsibility to manage their brand - which includes firing employees who disparage the brand and who act as agents. That being said, there is a difference between disagreeing with a particular decision taken by a company and disparaging it. Freedom of expression should cover simple disagreement in all cases. The crux of the matter should be all about whether or not the comments were disparaging and painted the company in a bad light. But as soon as one gets into being able to control the free speech of one's employees, we risk the vary coercion we strictly forbid in government now being applied in the workplace.
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    • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years ago
      The first amendment limits what the government can do. It does not limit individuals or corporations. You cannot be arrested for speech but you certainly can be fired.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 8 years ago
        Let's say that your contention is true, and that an employer can fire an employee simply because the employee disagrees with the company on a moral issue. What you have done is created employers who are now religions: if one does not tow the company line on moral decisions, such can be "excommunicated". That is an incredibly dangerous precedent to set. Think of how much an employment decision affects a person's life and now you would give the employer control over the moral decisions of that person? I don't think that the employee grants the employer any such right, nor does the employer assert any such privilege during the hiring decision.

        The exception comes (as previously mentioned) with employees in an agent position - those who act on behalf of and represent the company. When in their official capacities, such must act on behalf of their employers with all good faith or justifiably risk termination (Association). But when not in one's official capacity, they do not necessarily represent the company and therefore Freedom of Speech should be the standard.

        I can't hold to the notion that a company has coercive right of conscience over its employees.
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        • Posted by $ WilliamShipley 8 years ago
          There are protected groups, but that's under employment law not the first amendment which is quoted far more broadly than it applies.

          Without a contract, and subject to laws regarding discrimination against people based on the group they are in, you can fire someone for any reason you want -- and they can quit for any reason they want.

          For most employees it really shouldn't matter what they do on their time off, but if they are readily identifiable as being associated with your business, they can do damage by public postings that conflict with your business mission -- and facebook is a public post.

          And of course, it's a bad idea to post drunken pictures of you at a party on Sunday and then call in with the flu on Monday.
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          • Posted by $ blarman 8 years ago
            "There are protected groups, but that's under employment law not the first amendment which is quoted far more broadly than it applies."

            I hold an MBA and as part of the curriculum, we had to study these exact cases and the rationale for them. The questions I raise are the very same questions from our course materials and included lengthy discussions of court decisions regarding the matter. The very employment laws cited are based on First Amendment protections, I can assure you. Whether or not they are "overly broad" is entirely a matter of perspective, which is why I asked the question: would you then turn businesses into religions?

            "subject to laws regarding discrimination against people based on the group they are in"

            But that is the entire issue at hand: whether or not their freedom to associate with a thought contrary to that of the company takes precedence or must be subordinate to that of the company. According to current legal precedent, the only time the company's interests supercede those of the employee are when an employee is acting as an agent of the company and their actions or statements paint the company specifically in a bad light.

            "if they are readily identifiable as being associated with your business, they can do damage by public postings that conflict with your business mission"

            But here you are conceding that agent status is important. Does a private Facebook posting constitute a positional statement #1 on behalf of the company and #2 in contravention to its established position (even if it is no position at all)? Both conditions must be met to override freedom of expression.
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    • Posted by MinorLiberator 8 years ago
      With all due respect, I disagree. The First Amendment applies only to the Government as far as free speech. If I'm an employer and find out through any public posting that they are a white supremacist, or promote ISIS, they're gone. Further, IMO shunning, refusing to associate, or refusing service in your business to someone who holds repugnant or immoral ideas is a proper exercise of Freedom of Association, which implies the right not to associate. Personally, if I owned a service business I would not refuse service to a gay person, the current example being not baking a cake for a gay wedding. But I would support the right of people of other beliefs to do so, although I may then decide not to patronize that bakery myself. It's not the Government's business.
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      • Posted by $ blarman 8 years ago
        Actually, the First Amendment is the basis for the current workplace discrimination laws we have, which strictly forbid discrimination in hiring or firing based on religion, sex, race, etc...

        But I'll repeat the argument I presented to WilliamShipley with you: Would you then make corporations into religions - with the authority to only hire those who strictly identify with the corporation's moral views? Do you then force companies to take sides in each and every moral issue at risk of their workforce?

        (As a tertiary argument, I would also point out that the relationship between an employer and employee is significantly different than the relationship between an company and a client. These are different issues entirely.)
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  • Posted by MinorLiberator 8 years ago
    The employer/employee relationship is voluntary on each side. The employer has as much right to fire the employee, at will, for any reason. Just (as is "acceptable" in today's culture), an employee may quit at any time.

    Having said that, the legal is not the same as the moral. The employer may be morally wrong for terminating the employee, depending on the reasons.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years ago
    An employer should Be as free as an employee to terminate an employment relationship. Posts on Facebook are a window into the soul. I think one is free to post anything, and the employer should be free to use theinfo
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  • Posted by macnuth 8 years ago
    Many people that work for the US Government do not have FB accounts because they can get into trouble for personal opinions. I have also seen church employees fired for FB postings.
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  • Posted by wmiranda 8 years ago
    An employee comment that establishes a nexus with his/her employer that reflects negatively on the employer may be subject to whatever penalty the employer imposes. The only recourse for the employee is if they have any contractual obligation to establish a "just cause" for discipline.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years ago
      Since when does face book count as any thing worth bothering about?
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      • Posted by plusaf 8 years ago
        Michael,.. the same way an employer or prospective employer might research YOU for letters to the editor, clubs or groups you belong to or books you've written... all in the Public Domain... which reflect on You as to whether You're the Kind Of Person They'd Want Working For Them.
        Or interviews on TV you've done, or blogs you've published or your posts on Linked-In, FaceBook, HuffPost or any other media open to the public.
        Welcome to the wider range of "media" of this century!
        Sue Al Gore for having invented the Internet, too?
        :) Gotta be somebody we can blame, right?

        In my mind, it's similar to "arguments" gun-controllers want to make against Automatic Weapons... If you were to play that record backward in time, the evolution of "Weapons" from Fists to Throwing Rocks to Slingshots to Catapults to Spears to Bow-and-Arrow to Blow Darts to pistols to muskets to revolvers to machine guns to Gatling Guns, etc...
        The same "it's immoral to be able to do that much MORE destruction and killing with That New Weapon!" mentality gets laughed into the dust by Thinking People.
        It's called Technological Progress and it can show up anywhere, from guns to Mass Media.
        Hey, who Needed a Telephone when the Telegraph was perfectly Good Enough?
        Or Radio?
        Or Television?
        Or Smart Phones?

        Sorry... got carried away, again, as usual.
        Cliff Notes available in the Book Store soon... :)
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      • Posted by wmiranda 8 years ago
        Let's say I work in the Postal Service and I'm at a bar, in uniform, obviously drunk doing something obviously... let's say immoral when a picture is taken and posted on facebook. The picture goes viral. There's your nexus to the Postal Service. I get fired. Due to employee rights in the Postal Service, I can appeal the firing but now it's subject to a third party making a final determination.

        Now imagine the same scenario but with a company in which employees don't have appeal rights, like a private company. I'm still fired except there is no third party to appeal. You're fired for the posting on facebook which reflected poorly on the company.

        Facebook is also being looked at by prospective employers. I always tell young people to keep their personal lives out of facebook. Something you post on facebook will come and bite you when you least expect it, at the worst time, in the worst way.
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        • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years ago
          ANYTHING posted on facebook is a a. public information and b. proof to of the stupidity of those who post. What a sad lonely, empty valueless life they must retire to every night . Not my problem. Most are not worth the bother.

          But as to your first half. What does any of that have to do with anything?
          Just proof we hire numbskulls and dimwits as our employees in government.

          They too are not worth the bother nor the effort of any worry whatsoever.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 8 years ago
    It really so very much depends. In any context an employee could say or do something that harms their employer's belief in whatever aspects of the employee the employer deems essential their value as an employee. If that happens the employer is within her rights to let go hte employee.

    However doing this just because of disagreement or being nonplussed over something one finds out that has no direct bearing on the employment efficacy would be stupid and irrational.
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  • Posted by Leto79 8 years ago
    We live in public, over 3 billion people are on Facebook. If you are on social media as an active participant then yes you should be of those are the stipulations of employment. If they are not then no, no goes for the person who is on another person's Facebook or social media page doing someth deemed non employable
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