I think its getting worse in Venezuela though. Its not just TP, its getting down to food now.

The TP crisis was a couple years ago, I am pretty sure they got past it. last crisis was people buying airline tickets to cash back in. Just like Russia, you do weird things and make money in a dysfunctional system.

Venezuela cant last much longer without toilet paper. Something will happen there, and that one took 17 years from the start of Chavez until now

Now that is clearer, and true. Socialism is just a case of politicians and dictators covering up their agenda with "political" excuses. Until it implodes, and it does seem to do so regularly..

What do you mean "not wrong", I am not sure of what you are disagreeing with here.

Indeed, that does seem to be one of the issues, without a rational definition of what is being discussed, it becomes moot, and just an exercise in assertion of authority. Which seems to be what they are doing here. Maybe the states are trying to emulate the Feds? I didn't look at the full list, but I have to wonder how many of these are Dumbocraps, and states aligned to them. Maybe it is indeed a case of collusion and pressure to make business comply?

There isn't a generic: "environment". There is only: "Your environment" OR "My environment".
There IS the earth...but that isn't an "environment".
This need of the left to "socialize" and "generalize" definitions is what leads to such boundary-crossing violations of individual rights.

The universe revolves around viro ideology at the center.

I agree totally. The claim that the failures of socialism are just due to faulty implementation is the excuse statists use. I think socialism is inherently flawed and can never work. There is a saying that socialism only works until the other guys money runs out. Sure was true in Venezuela !! The oil money ran out and socialism with it.

Be careful here. I am not sure you will win fans wit that statement. I would say no one in the forum will endorse socialism as anything but a legitimate from of dictatorship of the state. There can be no "correct" implementation of it, it is inherently flawed. Look at Sweden and their brief (40 years or so) fling with it, they fired the social democrats who ruled for 40 years and brought their conservatives back.

I watched Obama go after Snowden God hath no fury than Obama scorned. The people of Cuba put Castro in. Now they reap the results. Same with Venezuela. Failur of the country is never the fault of socialism, only the incorrect implementation of it. Amazing

I think there are some facts that will support the theory, in taht most of the secret organozations hide their agendas and purposes, and memberships. Groups that are above board have no need to. Also, I read (but have no proof) the Rockefeller both funded the CFR and donated the land for the UN. Seems like a systemic push in one direction...

Term, you only have to look to Cuba for how a state can control it's people, all the protests during Obamanations visit were not reported, as they were against the government. The protestors were hauled away, and you will not see them again. This is what Hillary and Bernie offer the country. Venezuela is also a mess, but the people there still remember prosperous times.

Teri, I do not follow your statement of there is no such thing as "the environment". I am pretty sure that the surrounds of a human being constitutes their environment, as the term is used. Maybe you mean the way the enviro crowd uses it as a personal noun?

There is no such thing as "the environment" nor is there any such thing as "environmental rights".
Denial of something that doesn't exist is rationality. Punishing people (or corporations) for what you feel that they should believe is complete nonsense.
Why not being reality and reason into this "discussion" between the government and Exxon ... like Hank Rearden did?

I agree it will have to get very bad, as it did in AS, and now in Venezuela. Its incredible Maduro isnt just killed off to destroying a country as he has. But, the people there I have concluded are just stupid and ignorant and support him !!!! I guess it has to get a lot worse before they realize that socialism is whats responsible for their problems. I agree that its rational thinking that will fix this, and it "sort of" happened when the British went way too far with the colonists here and there was a revolution that spawned our constitution. When the British made the colonists pay for the war against the french, that was the straw that broke the camels back as it were. I wonder what will be necessary this time.

We can see it forming with the generalized upset and anger that Trump has identified. People are tired of the politicians that lie and manipulate for their own advantage. I have to hand it to Trump for putting up his own money to run against the establishment. They are taking him apart one day by the next to protect their "fiefdoms", and he keeps on standing up for us. He really doesnt have a lot to gain from all this. He already made his money and fame. Maybe, just maybe, he really believes in trying to make america great again. I give him the benefit of the doubt actually.

Of course. Any surprise? This is just the start. There is at least one other topic they'll use to go after people. The American public is ready for this. Time to pounce...

I see what you are saying here, but I'm not so sure it was planned as in a massive conspiracy. I think more like "birds of a feather flock together", but they flocked in the media and the schools and universities and the results is what we have. Same results, but not necessarily planned and the degradation continues by feeding itself.

"Maybe it will take a collapse...". I used to think the same thing and people will wake up, but now I think it more likely you'll see an intensification of what we are already seeing. The collapse will be blamed on those "greedy capitalists" or those "hateful republicans" or those "white racist slavers" because that is all the sheeple "know absolutely" to be true. A strong dose of rational thinking is the only way out of this and I think there is a shortage of that and it's getting more scarce yet.

Thanks

Excellent point Prof.

Love is an emotional tool used by the "others" to manipulate and control. There is no such thing as a "group love" that is successful because of the individual nature of each persons perception. No politician ever "loved his country", he loved the power, and the money, but not the country. Michael is spot on in his point of truth and facts , which then allow for rational thought and decision, is the only way to good decisions. That, though requires critical thinking and rational thought, which has been bred out of the sheeple, just look at them, and their purely emotional responses.

Not much difference at this point, that is the problem isn't it?

Therin is the problem, we have raised a few generations of sheeple that have had it embedded in their DNA that everything is summed up in a 30 second statement, that you go with your "feelings" and that you have some inalienable right to total security and "safe space" any where, any time. Those same people who raised those sheeple are the ones we are confronting today. I cannot believe anything but this has been a long term, planned thing, and I think Ayn Rand thought so too. It is the basis for AS, only she did not delve into how it got there, just that it did, and was trying to warn us of the fact we were on the road even back then.