Good luck to you, Lucio. My time is also valuable and I may have certainly wasted it here with you. Either you truly do not understand what I have written or you are deliberately smoke screening your inability to formulate a decent reply. I'm also contemplating the notion that American English is not your first language and you are not properly translating the concepts. All those scenarios are tragic. Referring to me as a "disturbed fellow" isn't going to help you understand anything. Also tragic.

Farewell.

Mr. McCannon01:

I do not need to read anything again, and you are mistaken by prejudice due to a differing opinion. I´m not a lefty, nor a right wing anything. I´m not a democrat nor a republican, communist or capitalist. You are mistaken from the get go, I stand my ground which, in order to clear things up for you, is nowhere near extremes.

As for propaganda, as you put it, again you´re mistaken. I have answered not every "pellet" you point out one by one. This is due to the fact that I value my time, I´m a busy man and no, I am neither naive nor young (though I´m not senile either). Fact is you´re full of resentment, and you can´t stand the fact that I need very little arguments in order to bring down your elaborated response. Especially since you began attacking me, as you again do so in order to draw me under and into your level of aggression. Again, you failed to succeed in this.

Insulting me won´t change my arguments or the facts they stand for. If you believe the US Government is as righteous as you say, then shame on you sir. Ayn Rand was very clear on this issue, brute force is unacceptable. Period. Your foul use of language is just that, brute force. I´d hate to have to encounter you personally, you seem to be a very disturbed fellow.

Yours Truly

Lucio Plorutti Dormal

The progressive plague is everywhere. Here its effects are present, but minimal. You're not likely to find a place much better than east central Florida despite the rare progressive intrusion.

I'm sorry to cut your amusement short, but you obviously didn't read or understand much of what I wrote. The shotgun metaphor is in reference to your style of reply, which is actually quite typical of leftists that have nothing to offer. That is, your reply is a shotgun shell of pellets of irrelevant trivia of differing unrelated points that may be false or falsely interpreted aimed at me in hopes of changing the subject, which you obviously know very little about. I addressed your irrelevant pellets of trivia one at a time, for those I bothered taking the time to address, and gave you my thoughts. To understand what I have to say, please re-read my last reply and start again. I stand by what I wrote and you may consider reading it more than once before sending a knee-jerk propagandist reply. I'm assuming you are very young, naive, or both so I will be patient (i.e. you totally missed the shotgun metaphor, you didn't understand the Stars and Stripes reference, and you seem to want to ignore the fact I have personally lived in and walked the streets of Chinese cities and can offer first hand experience).

Like I said, what a shame. We visit FL every so often to look in on my Dad and his wife, and like it. Been talking about moving there for a while, maybe not if the prog plague continues.

I find it amusing that your response is the metaphor of a shotgun shell being fired at me, this doesn´t shun the rage you dwell in, it magnifies it.

Germany, since then, for now and probably from here on will be one of the best examples of a nation. Why would the US impose it´s flag on a ruin of a nation? No way. The Germans rebuilt themselves from scrap not once, but many times. The same goes for Japan. There is a difference with Korea, of course, but of course the US Government and it´s exploiters (not you of course) have held advantage and permited this drive. China is still nothing like the US, people cannot gather in public congress for more than five minutes in any city, that´s why Chinese Restaurants are such a success. Eating is the perfect excuse for conference, and none can ban eating now, can they? China´s reality isn´t that of a thriving capitalist nation, the internal economy is in diapers and the wages for blue collar workers are the lowest. They are the industry for the world, not for China. If you knew the streets of China you´d know that due to skill there´s a parallel market that is just as good as the "official" ones (NIIKE, ADIDASS, etc).

In order to save my time, I´ll tell you this. "Germany was the richest socialist country on earth, and is the richest capitalist country on earth". This sums it all up, the system doesn´t make the results, the individuals do. The Scandinavian countries have to have strong governments for, like "a pack o wolves", when winter comes they have no choice but to work together.

Not so much enraged as deeply irritated that folks like yourself can buy into anti-American leftist rhetoric to the point that you can’t process actual historical facts. Then you present the fabricated propaganda you’ve swallowed whole as if it is a fact. Your post I am responding to is high on rhetoric but low on fact and is also a “shotgun” approach to my post. That is, if you can spew a bunch of rhetorical pellets of drivel maybe you’ll get lucky and one or more shot will find the target. Amusingly, none of the pellets in your shotgun shell have anything to do with or supports your proposition that the US is somehow exploitive or oppressive. You also don’t address the contradictory notion of why anyone would want to emigrate, legally or illegally, to such an oppressive and exploitive country. Whatever. If that’s the style you’ve been programmed to use, I’ll deal with it one pellet at a time, if I have time. For now I’ll offer you this:

Pellet 1) Unlike you, I do believe Britain and the US are the best examples of civilized history. Starting from the Magna Carta on up through the Declaration of Independence and beyond where individual liberty (economic and political) have come to hold sway most of the time for most of the people and has resulted in the greatest advancements and living conditions in the history of mankind. Any nation that accepts those tenets will prosper. Any nation that rejects those tenets, including contemporary Britain and the US, will falter. This holds true for individuals as well, but that’s another subject. You may have a point regarding brain and brawn, though, but not the way you think. That is, as America becomes more socialist it will lose its brain, but the brawn created while the nation was more free will still remain (for a while). That loss would be a sad state of affairs because it took a great deal of effort and growing pains since 1776 to create the American civilization we are blessed with today.

Pellet 2) You say Germany is a thriving economy. Yes it is. I agree, for now. If the US was as oppressive and exploitive as you would have us believe, Germany (or part of it) would be flying the Stars and Stripes as its national flag. It would not be an autonomous nation. Neither would Japan or South Korea. President Reagan’s “Mr. Gorbachov, tear down this wall” was hardly a statement made by an oppressive American. Modern, free, and robust Germany wouldn’t exist if it wasn’t for US generosity and non-imperialism. Neither would modern, free, and robust Japan as well as a lot of other places on the planet.

Pellet 3) You mention China as an industrially powerful nation. Yes, it is, but probably not for the reason you think. You see, I’ve had the opportunity, as an independent contractor, to live and work there. Multiple times in multiple cities in multiple manufacturing facilities. China is becoming more powerful industrially because the Chinese have been rejecting all that Marxist/Maoist nonsense and have been adopting good old made in USA Capitalist enterprise. Capitalism is alive and well in modern China (and so is the mini-skirt) and the Chinese people are loving it. Yes, China is still a top down totalitarian government, but the leadership knows a good thing when they see it and are in no hurry to screw it up. The people will put the leaderships’ collective heads on a pole if they do screw it up. [Side note: I was sitting at an outside cafe in Beijing near Tiananmen Square enjoying a great mug of beer (big breweries were built by the Germans and the beer is freakin’ good). When we mentioned the big picture of Mao to some of the folks we were with, I was told the Mao years were so bad that they want to distance themselves from him, but can’t take down that picture because when they tried do so in the past, all the local businesses squawked because it was a huge tourist attraction. Ha, even Mao’s image now serves as a capitalist enterprise advertisement, LOL! Sitting there, I also bought a Mao watch from a street vendor for about four bucks. It had his arm waving to the tick-tock. It was so hilarious a bunch of us bought them for mementos. Hey, everybody needs a waving Mao watch, LOL!]

Pellet 4) “Successful” socialist countries like Sweden and Finland. They have been “successful”, for the most part, because they are a homogeneous people with a strong work ethic needed to pull this charade off. It shouldn’t be hard to predict it isn’t going to last. As the socialist policies breed out the “work ethic” gene from the national DNA and the producers wan as the the looters multiply, there will be a comeuppance. Margaret Thatcher hit the nail on the head when she said socialism lasts until it runs out of other peoples money. I like to say “Socialist policies can be made to appear to work as long as there is a strong capitalist base to support them”. Socialist policies can be held in place by bayonets, too (a la Stalin et al), but I wouldn’t call that “working”. Countries like Sweden, Finland, and even the US remain successful because they haven’t completely bled out and destroyed the capitalist base. China is succeeding because it is feeding vitamins to its capitalist base and paring back the socialist nonsense.

Pellet 5) Your first paragraph is pretty much disjointed nonsensical pronouncements attempting to disparage the American free market system (correct me if I’m wrong on guessing this). I assume the “six years ago” is in reference to the housing and real estate crash, which was created by government interference in the mortgage market. It’s amazing what havoc a handful of leftist politicians can create in the name of “social justice” when they are allowed or even encouraged to get away with it. Free stuff is very expensive, especially free money. This is a complex and lengthy subject that can’t be fully covered here. Maybe you should rewrite that paragraph and use it to start another thread and open it for discussion. This thread has been hijacked enough, don’t you think?

I think your tax dollars are not being invested in American youth quite the way you'd like, these days. Actually your tax dollars are used to further the acceptance of illegal immigration via public schools... removing American flag shirts on cinco de mayo and stuff like that... fear of guns too...and much much more.. :(

bah, my spelling stinks..

"my tax dollars being invested in American youth toward America's future"

Sorry

It is one thing to pay for government (I refuse to call it public) education through 12th grade, but college should not be an entitlement. Taxes to pay for college education don't seem as bad as other taxes unless your private entity (my university) has to compete with the government-sponsored competition. If one is to be self-consistent in Galt values, you can't approve of taxes for education, period, even at the K-12 level. Being an objectivist is harder to do than to say. All Atlantis citizens have their own little story about how government infringement impacts them more directly than it does others. This is MINE.

Your analysis is spot on, RevJay4. That is now a law (not a bill) as of 2 years ago. There are no state income taxes down here, and property taxes in my part of Florida are quite reasonable, but as are many places, Florida is becoming more "progressive" each year. We have had so many people move from up north bringing their liberal values with them that it is starting to have an effect now. Progressivism is a plague. You can try to outrun it, but it just keeps catching up with you.

yes, its never a bad thing to understand the value of what you're receiving. That said, I have little issue, if I must be taxed, with my tax dollar being invented in American youth toward America's future.

Sounds like the senator is pitting a government entity against a private enterprise. Using taxpayer funds, of course. Is there no way to stop the bill?
We had thought of moving to FL in the near future, now, not so sure. Seems to be going the progressive way. What a shame.

Totally agree with you. And your energy regarding the lefty response.

AJ, reality is not a word that he left comprehends easily. Perhaps, if they lived along the border, as you do, they might have a better grasp of the situation. Maybe they'd still be blinded by the claptrap of the left.

Florida is a curious place sometimes. We have a so-called Republican governor, senate, and house, and yet stuff like this gets through. Jeb Bush was a pretty decent governor; it is his moves since leaving the governorship that have been highly questionable (OK, so I'm being nice.). Then (Prime Time) Charlie Crist took over. He was so Republican that when he was defeated in a primary by Rick Scott that he ran as an independent. Now Crist is running as a Democrat. Rick Scott ran as a Tea Party conservative. We knew he wasn't. The hospital organization that he ran before becoming governor was as crony as it gets. While Scott has cut the budget some, he endorsed a Florida Senate bill sponsored by a Republican state senator to build Florida Polytechnic Institute (note the similarity to my university, Florida Tech or Florida Institute of Technology) on that state senator's land right on the interstate. To say my private university was pissed is a massive understatement. Now Rick Scott is running against Charlie Crist - two bad choices. I can only hope that Libertarian Adrian Wyllie can garner enough support. So far, he seems like a candidate Atlantis citizens could support. Now if he can only win.

What Floridians can't understand is why Allen West won't run for governor in a primary against Rick Scott. He could easily become Florida's next governor.

The only good in AJAshinoff's story from Allen West is that the students losing tuition to illegals will now think that my school isn't as overpriced as they thought. They will be forced to pay the real cost of college.

Is the right to migrate in the Constitution? I must have missed that part in my studies. Point it out to me so my education can be complete.
Never mind, I'll just hear more of your leftists nonsense.

Can't read all the posts but but first generation college attendee Ghanan got accepted to ALL the ivy league schools??? "Unheard of" says "experts" not my words-liberal media's word's. Same deal

I figured you'd get here sooner or later. immigration is never the issue, illegal immigration is and for a variety of reasons (not just welfare).

If anything I can be called a nationalist. Never can anyone call me a racist or a supremacist or one who champions those vile un-American principals. I'm a US veteran who vowed to protect and defend this country from all enemies foreign and domestic. 20 million illegal border crossers is a cultural invasion equal only in scope to what the islamists are doing throughout Europe.

At this point my ear is closed to you and your thoughts, Think what you will of me because I now understand that nothing I say can alter what you already think of me.

The immigration debate was start by a white supremacist because his math show minorities will outnumber white people and new immigrants voted democrat, therefore we need to keep them out. Read this from National review 1997 “electing a New People”. https://heartland.org/sites/all/modules/...

“So let anyone in regardless of their place of birth? Why have a border?”
YES! A border does not enter into the equation because a border does not mean restricting one right to migration or preventing a native born from hiring immigrant workers. Individuals have the right to trade and migration. Our individual rights are not based on race, sex or national origin.

The United States has the right and the obligation to set immigration quotas and standards for who should be admitted. The only criterion for determining who should be admitted is: What best serves the interests of the United States. What is not relavent is: What best serves the interests of the immigrants. Example: Irish immigration 1850-1900. Ireland was hit by the Potato Famine. Millions of immigrants came here to avoid starvation. But it was also true that the US was growing and expanding by leaps and bounds-- it was a happy situation where the interests of the Irish immigrants and the interests of the US were both served, like in any free market transaction.

The use of Mexican labor is debatable. Certainly there is a demand, but immigration quotas are being ignored.

You hit the nail on the head there. There's a lot of sleight of hand in politics, and a lot of cronies getting rich.

Did you guys know that most illegal immigrants fork over about $5k or more to get to the US and pay traffickers to get them across the border? The whole illegal process can take less than a month to complete. Wouldn't it make more sense to have those would-be illegals pay the $5k to register with the government (before entry of course), a police dept statement from the country of origin that indicates either a clear or not clear criminal background check, and then be entered into a database for a 3 or 5 year probationary period? They could then apply for permanent residency as long as they do not commit a crime and can verify they have an income with the IRS. (you can report income without a SSN, its called an ITIN.) This seems to be a lot easier to me then taking the risk of dying in the desert or having your money stolen by traffickers and then getting shot in the process. My husband pointed this out to me as he is originally from Mexico. It took him 4 years and $30,000 just to get his green card, he has to report any address change within 10 days to the department of homeland security, and if he commits any crime greater than a speeding ticket his LPR status is subject to revocation...