If it is a phobia against an entire religion and against its approximately 1.7 billion adherents then yes it is irrational. It is irrational for the same reason that all forms of collectivism and collective guilt are irrational. It ignores individuals and individual responsibility and instead treats persons as members of some presumed homogeneous collective.

All of the events together in the list in the OP were done by far less than a small fraction of a percent of the worldwide Muslim population. To damn an entire religion and all its adherents for the actions of a few is unjust and irrational.

I have made no interpretation. I stated the way I read it. If you have expertise and qualified information to the contrary, please provide it.

Islam's Koran does not say that UNLESS you intentionally try to interpret that way with preconceived notions and taking portions out of context.

False assumption ... you are assuming that because all the acts were perpetrated by RADICAL Terrorists that were Islamic ALL Islamic believer are terrorists and that Islam supports terrorism (which in reality it does NOT).

Most of the ones listed were white male, does that mean all white males are terrorists?

On a world wide basis, most Moslems are not Arabs (Persians, Indonesians, Non-Arab Africans, etc.). However, Arab Moslems have been working overtime to kill off Arab non-Moslems and that continues to this day ala ISIS and the Arab Spring.

While this is true of this thread, I am just doing my best to keep the discussion on-track. Many of these I have been in before devolve into comments about towel-heads and such. What I have seen so far here has been kept generally to the religion itself, which is good, and I want to help encourage that track.

But if we are discussing rational beliefs vs irrational... Christianity is just as irrational and mystical as Islam.

I have an "ophobia" regarding scorpions and rattlesnakes, too. I also know if I leave scorpions and rattlesnakes alone they won't sting or bite me, and even then I don't want them in house. IMHO, if we leave Moslems alone they will get around to stinging and biting us anyway, just because we're not one of them. Historically, the only time they stopped stinging and biting is when they got their noses bloodied and knocked on their butts whenever they got out of line.

Ehhh?...sorry Susanne, I can barely hear your rational circumspection above the din.

Hi Herb7734. For Christians, Jesus Christ ended "the law" and all the bloody stuff in the OT. Actually, after JC even the Jews no longer sacrifice lambs and doves and goats and whatever.

Now, as for the birth of Christendom and all the bloody crap done in "the name of Christ" is a topic of a whole new discussion.

I don't see any other mention of Arabs on this thread, let alone any condemnation of them as a race.

Ayn Rand's take:

Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man’s genetic lineage—the notion that a man’s intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors.

Racism claims that the content of a man’s mind (not his cognitive apparatus, but its content) is inherited; that a man’s convictions, values and character are determined before he is born, by physical factors beyond his control. This is the caveman’s version of the doctrine of innate ideas—or of inherited knowledge—which has been thoroughly refuted by philosophy and science. Racism is a doctrine of, by and for brutes. It is a barnyard or stock-farm version of collectivism, appropriate to a mentality that differentiates between various breeds of animals, but not between animals and men.

Like every form of determinism, racism invalidates the specific attribute which distinguishes man from all other living species: his rational faculty. Racism negates two aspects of man’s life: reason and choice, or mind and morality, replacing them with chemical predestination.




However let's keep in mind that Islam is not a race, but a religion... A conscious choice. On the other end of the spectrum we must also consider that most Arabs have no choice in religion, much like medieval Europeans did not. It's a tough issue, but we must find the balance between rejecting the religion without condemning a race simply because of correlation.

While it is true not all Muslims are terrorists, it seems to be true that all terrorists are Muslims. This brings us to the M&Ms dilemma: You have a bowl of 10,000 M&Ms and only one is poison, but it will kill you. How many will you eat?

Thats comical. If you are not a true believer, you are to be killed. What a great religion. I think that religion is a piece of crap, along with the true believers. Doesnt mean I want to string them up, but I dont want anything to do with muslims really

Exactly my understanding as well.

The biggest problem with "specifically Disavow" is that disavowing the Qu'ran is punishable by death. If they open there mouths, they will be killed.

Exactly Herb. To put it in perspective, that is close to 2/3 the population of the United States.

In my teens, I lived within 4 blocks of an all Muslim neighborhood. I was close to several families right through my twenties. They called me a cousin and I attended many meals and celebrations with them. Today, I would keep my distance.

And worthy of support, but none seems to be forthcoming.

San Bernadino, Ft. Hood, Chattanooga, recent stabbings all over the world, Philadelphia cop shooting. The list is longer than any one person can remember. Then there are muslim/americans like Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, former Navy commander, or former muslim Dr. Nabeel Qureshi that have been critical of Islam or Islamic terrorism at the risk of their own lives. Such courage is worthy of admiration.

Thank you.

You would be surprised. While they have their religious beliefs, the vast majority of them will listen to reason. While not part of my job description, being an ambassador to Muslims has had its immediate and long-term rewards.

Here's the difference, to cite the example of the Hebrew Bible. That work gives the history of the Jewish people, warts and all. But the Qur'an, in giving the history of Muhammad, tries to pretend his warts aren't warts--and that his solid enteric waste doesn't stink. With the result that even child marriage and rape of prisoners of war become acceptable behavior.

Well, you can thank Usama bin Laden for that. Him and the twenty modern hashshasheen he sent to fly those airplanes into those buldings. On that day I looked up the word F-I-G-H-T in three separate authoritative English translations of the Qur'an. And I found it. In spades, if you'll pardon the pun. "Fight and slay the infidels wheresoever ye find them!" Surah 9:5. And: "Fight those who will not forbid that which Allah commands you to forbid." Surah 9:29. Need I go on?

The anti-religion of Communism, I think you mean. The worship of collective qua collective. This especially applied to the original Soviet Union. You have only to read the official English lyrics, or to translate the Russian ones: "We're going to sweep the mean-spirited aggressors from the road! We'll bring glory and laud to our Motherland! Victory of the deathless ideal of Communism!"

+100 if I could.

Anyone who wants to understand Islam should get a copy of the Qu'ran translated into English and just read through it. If it doesn't sicken you... or bore you to death with all the repetition of "God is great. There is no God but Allah."