I think that being a police officer is one of the most thankless jobs there is today. When you have a President who vilifies the police before getting all the facts doesn’t help. I am the father of a police officer and have other relatives in law enforcement. I was a deputy sheriff for about a year and a half back in the 1970s. I may be a little biased.
Every police officer is under scrutiny today and every action is questioned. Like every other profession there are always a few that don’t meet the standards and should find a new line of work. But, you also have to look at who they have to deal with every day. They are not generally dealing with the most upstanding citizens. There is very little respect for authority anymore.
Another person comment on how many Americans had been killed by police officers already this year. There was no mention of the circumstances. There was no mention of how many times police would have been justified in killing someone but showed restraint and didn’t. Until you have worn the badge, carried a gun and been involved in a like and death situation you can’t really judge their actions. I’m surprised that there aren’t more shooting with the attitude of some of the people that they have to deal with.
As far as the “militarization” of the police. Have you looked at what the criminals, especially gangs and drug dealers, are carrying? A Barney Fife wouldn’t make it in today’s world. I think that the police showing up with a massive show of force is safer than one cop with a six-gun.
I don’t think there is a police officer out there who leave his house in the morning planning to see how many people he can piss off or if he can shoot somebody and get away with it. They just want to go to work and survive their shift.

(3) must assume continuous awareness of all consequences.
Some preemptive caution is necessary.
Heinlein's position is mostly harmless.

Count me in.

Being a former soldier and a former cop, I have nothing but respect for those uniforms and the people in them. Sure, there are Tackleberrys, in every type of uniformed unit, but the overwhelming majority are dedicated to the mission. If you look at all the causes of death in the country, as in a Pareto chart, cops are probably the smallest cause of all, even in black communities, especially if you remove the legitimate shootings (killing of thugs). Messing with cops is like poking a sleeping bear. I don't recommend it.

I think that Police like any other profession have both good and bad people working with in the group. As with any other group you hear more about the bad than you do the good.

With that said I do dislike the ever increasing militarization of the profession and I hate the very essence of their traffic duties. I understand the need for traffic control; however, I have had multiple experiences with Police writing tickets as nothing more than revenue generating exercises for the community. Here in Texas I was once pulled over for a seatbelt violation by a pair of Officers who both had their seatbelts buckled behind them. When I fought it in court, I won but was still required to pay court cost which amounted to only $10.00 less than the original ticket. Of course I had to take a day off work to fight the ticket.

I've worked with Sheriff deputies and local cops (two small communities) when I was a caseworker doing child, adult abuse, domestic violence (involving kids), and juvenile delinquency cases. I've found it is the basic personality of the LEO that determines the working relationship. Some "take over," some work collaboratively, and others assess the situation before inserting their personality bias into the situation. Knowing the personality of the LEO rarely determined the outcome of the case, but it did influence whether the process of the case was smooth, rough, fun, or ugly. Now, having had those experiences, I can say that I could never be a cop. Many times that job is thankless, misunderstood, dangerous, and scary.
Looking back, the best ones I worked with were the older, seasoned guys with an experiential perspective on what they job was.... We did some good things and we did have some laughs.

It isn't the police so much as the quagmire of social laws that inhibit us all. If one has "done no harm" is speeding a crime? (Only if there is immediate and present danger...) Public media and the plethora of crime shows promote the savagery. Our jails are full of folks who did no harm, except perhaps to themselves. Robert Heinlein said it well:
(1) Every citizen is free to perform any act which does not hamper the equal freedom of another citizen.
(2) No law shall forbid the performance of any act, which does not damage the physical or economic welfare of another person.
(3) No act shall constitute a violation of a law valid under this provision unless there is such damage or immediate present danger resulting from that act.

The problem is a lack of boundaries taught by parents. I have had several conversations with police who seek my services and they all report that the youth of today have no idea about social standards. I had a gentleman in from the east side of Detroit agree that the kids have no respect or boundaries for anyone - police or citizens. Thanks to liberal policies the family unit is no more and the youth do not have a clue on how to keep from getting shot - by police or gangs. A simple "Yes Sir and No Sir" is all it takes. All of the officers tell me that they want to go home that night to their families and not be
a statistic. Some of the officers seem to be avoiding the high crime areas or what waiting a long time before responding. Its tough to head to a domestic violence call when gun fire is likely to be involved. Yes, there are bad players in any profession, but if you anyone with respect they too will treat you with respect. And if not, there are avenues to address this behavior, I let the other person break the Golden Rule and whenever possible I just walk away.

I agree that police can be affected by community standards.

There's still quite a few of us left.

I live in a small-ish rural community, and we seem to know the police more as neighbors. I think that's the way it use to be when cops walked the beat.

You're cutting very close to the bone. It reminds me of the old Mel Brooks 1,000 year old man.
Interviewer: Was there patriotism in the cave-man days?
1,000 yr old man: Yes, we had a national anthem. It went like this: "Hurray for cave number 56 and to hell with everyone else."

I think that it depends greatly on the community one is in and the prevalent attitudes of the society there. My community has great (read positive) attitudes and generally respect police officers and that respect is reciprocated. It's a big deal when there is a police shooting or altercation here, and so far, those have all been people who haven't grown up here trying to buck authority.

I think the places where the police are the most corrupt are also the places where the communities themselves are the most corrupt, or the communities which have few or very low standards of ethical behavior. It's a snowball effect either way.

One-on-one most people, including cops, are nice people. Unfortunately, anecdotal information does not give the full picture. Generally speaking, cops do "get a pass" for bad behavior. For the overview one must read about the cops (I am an ex-cop and ex-prosecutor in two states) at places such as Cato, the ACLU (yes, they do some good things), or the book “Rise of the Warrior Cop.” There are ways to provide police services that are not government civil service based, fit Objectivist principles, and would not promote the “military mentality” now running through so many of the modern cops

By and large the individual police officers go in to the profession because they want to help people. Unfortunatly gulchers also realize that they at some point will be used by the government as the Internal Military that Obama talked about in his first election speeches. Let me remind you that the Execution squads that the Nazis sent to Poland during WW2 were police units. These units marched Jews out in to the woods and shot them in the back of the neck. Most of these guys also signed up to serve their communities but were turned by the government in to mass killers. Believe it or not, that could happen here in the USA. Correctly motivated and propagandized, our guys could do the same thing. When Gultcher's see local police getting MRAP vehicles assault gear and hiding their faces behind masks, we get concerned.

Thanks for a well reasoned opinion.
As to guns; the pistols currently carried by most police carry large capacity clips. They need them, because in order to hit anything with them you need to be an expert marksman, which very few police are. If the target is moving and beyond ten feet, luck plays more of a part than skill.

Personally I have a better outlook on police. However, I live outside the city limits, so I deal with Sheriff's department and they are a little better. I have had a city policeman follow me from the VFW all the way to the city limit because he thought that maybe I was a DUI for him to pull over, even though I don't drink alcohol. But overall, the police and all the other law enforcement in the area hold "Night Outs" for the locals to interact with them. They give rides to the kids in Fire Engines and Police Cruisers. We also have a AFB (Cannon) just outside of town and several Federal agencies here so it encompasses a lot of different entities. Rural areas in general are better for police and other agencies as they are a bigger part of the community.

Being old-fashisned seems to have gone out of
style, but together with you Herb, I'm still one of 'em!

Police as individuals are just that, and there are nice ones, professional ones, mean ones, town cops, city cops, criminals and those who think the police are an entitled. I do not feel the individuals are significantly different than the general population, and they have a difficult job...sometimes.

Police as an institution has become an entitled group that can do no wrong. Police do not give each other speeding tickets, generally speaking. The word of a police officer is stronger in court than ours. Many departments have become essentially another tax agency. SWAT teams using military vehicles and equipment are inappropriate and unnecessary.

On the other hand they have a tough job at times, and I am inclined to give them the benefit of doubt in shootings. There are bad shootings, but what is the percentage? I think other institutional behaviors are a bigger part of our freedom problem than the few shootings in tough situations, or by bad individuals.

The institutional behaviors are a problem. They are not in line with the intentions of there roles.

The police in my town are very polite and helpful...to the people in my town. If you drive through from another state or are pulled over and from another town, you had better not have been speeding. If you are from the town, you'll get a warning. Is this ok? I don't think so. Do they exhibit this behavior as individuals or institutionally? C'mon. However, I do like the small town, helpful part.

Excellent questons!!

Policemen are people.
There are all kinds of people.

No, I'm not. See, "There are good cops." Other than that, I agree with everything you say.

the Federal govt is trying to co-op the police...the county sheriff is the last line before we face a militaristic force that takes orders and is paid by washington politicans...

Generally speaking police officers do not function most often on the side of the citizen. They view the rules that they work under something they can personally interpret and that is the problem. Yes there are many courteous police but they are in the minority. They are civil servants and when they see the civil servant at the top of the heap; i.e. 0 they say if he can do it his way so can I and that is why as Abaco points out the police do kill people and get away with it. One thing that really disturbs me is when they kill someones dog that never attacks them and for that I think they should be tried for murder as well. Herb, go our on rounds with your favorite cousin's son to see how he handles situations. You might be surprised.

I think my opinion is fairly well known on the site. I define a 'good cop' as one that does not hide, cover-up, testily, or even 'shade' his reports in order to not only 'not confront', but to silently support the bad apples in his organization in order to fit in or keep his job. Last year the number of Americans killed by cops was at least 1204 and this year through 3/6, it's already up to 183. To put that into perspective, the best trained cop as well as infantrymen misses 6 of every 10 shots he takes, and the majority of actual hits of those 4 successes are not fatal wounds. We've lost a great deal more soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan from IED's than from bullet wounds.

So the 183 dead this year do not represent all that have been shot nor do they represent all that have been shot at. The supposed number of SWAT deployments for non-violent warrant service in no-knock, early morning raids is estimated at something like 80,000/yr, though no one really knows. No one tracks the number of beatings, trippings to the pavement, false escalations to 'Obstruction' or 'Resistings' filed, planting of evidence, lies on warrant applications, so called arrests in error dismissed the next business day by the DA, etc., etc. Then tack on the astounding dollar amounts generated from revenue generation traffic stops and infractions and asset seizures with no criminal charges filed.

I totally support and will celebrate any LEO that sees his job as protecting my natural individual rights and understands Peelian Principles of Policing and will stand up and refuse to obey un-Constitutional orders. I've even donated to the legal funds of a few that have been railroaded out of their Dept's for whistle-blowing or refusing to support a bad cop. But until all the 'good cops' start weeding their own gardens and those of their political bosses, I'll have to count them as 'bad cops'.