I think my opinion is fairly well known on the site. I define a 'good cop' as one that does not hide, cover-up, testily, or even 'shade' his reports in order to not only 'not confront', but to silently support the bad apples in his organization in order to fit in or keep his job. Last year the number of Americans killed by cops was at least 1204 and this year through 3/6, it's already up to 183. To put that into perspective, the best trained cop as well as infantrymen misses 6 of every 10 shots he takes, and the majority of actual hits of those 4 successes are not fatal wounds. We've lost a great deal more soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan from IED's than from bullet wounds.

So the 183 dead this year do not represent all that have been shot nor do they represent all that have been shot at. The supposed number of SWAT deployments for non-violent warrant service in no-knock, early morning raids is estimated at something like 80,000/yr, though no one really knows. No one tracks the number of beatings, trippings to the pavement, false escalations to 'Obstruction' or 'Resistings' filed, planting of evidence, lies on warrant applications, so called arrests in error dismissed the next business day by the DA, etc., etc. Then tack on the astounding dollar amounts generated from revenue generation traffic stops and infractions and asset seizures with no criminal charges filed.

I totally support and will celebrate any LEO that sees his job as protecting my natural individual rights and understands Peelian Principles of Policing and will stand up and refuse to obey un-Constitutional orders. I've even donated to the legal funds of a few that have been railroaded out of their Dept's for whistle-blowing or refusing to support a bad cop. But until all the 'good cops' start weeding their own gardens and those of their political bosses, I'll have to count them as 'bad cops'.

I have two friends who are cops and I have told them how I feel about just about every interaction with a uniform PO.
I say just about every interaction because I volunteer at my schools athletic events where I have to hang out with a PO for 4 hours and we get along just fine.
I've been pulled over at least 2 dozen times (speeding or cycle out of lane) and only have received 2 tickets, so for the most part they have been kind. But I do not trust a single one of them. I have seen them lie in court, modify their report to satisfy a prosecutor, and seen them arrest an innocent person in the most offensive manner. As they talk to me like I am a criminal, I talk to them as they are a criminal. I am sure they are not all like that but since I do not know which ones are honest or not, I treat them all as if they are dishonest, and will do anything to get a conviction.
thats my experience.
But hey, it's a great day to get outdoors, and knott deal with a cop.

I think that being a police officer is one of the most thankless jobs there is today. When you have a President who vilifies the police before getting all the facts doesn’t help. I am the father of a police officer and have other relatives in law enforcement. I was a deputy sheriff for about a year and a half back in the 1970s. I may be a little biased.
Every police officer is under scrutiny today and every action is questioned. Like every other profession there are always a few that don’t meet the standards and should find a new line of work. But, you also have to look at who they have to deal with every day. They are not generally dealing with the most upstanding citizens. There is very little respect for authority anymore.
Another person comment on how many Americans had been killed by police officers already this year. There was no mention of the circumstances. There was no mention of how many times police would have been justified in killing someone but showed restraint and didn’t. Until you have worn the badge, carried a gun and been involved in a like and death situation you can’t really judge their actions. I’m surprised that there aren’t more shooting with the attitude of some of the people that they have to deal with.
As far as the “militarization” of the police. Have you looked at what the criminals, especially gangs and drug dealers, are carrying? A Barney Fife wouldn’t make it in today’s world. I think that the police showing up with a massive show of force is safer than one cop with a six-gun.
I don’t think there is a police officer out there who leave his house in the morning planning to see how many people he can piss off or if he can shoot somebody and get away with it. They just want to go to work and survive their shift.

It isn't the police so much as the quagmire of social laws that inhibit us all. If one has "done no harm" is speeding a crime? (Only if there is immediate and present danger...) Public media and the plethora of crime shows promote the savagery. Our jails are full of folks who did no harm, except perhaps to themselves. Robert Heinlein said it well:
(1) Every citizen is free to perform any act which does not hamper the equal freedom of another citizen.
(2) No law shall forbid the performance of any act, which does not damage the physical or economic welfare of another person.
(3) No act shall constitute a violation of a law valid under this provision unless there is such damage or immediate present danger resulting from that act.

One-on-one most people, including cops, are nice people. Unfortunately, anecdotal information does not give the full picture. Generally speaking, cops do "get a pass" for bad behavior. For the overview one must read about the cops (I am an ex-cop and ex-prosecutor in two states) at places such as Cato, the ACLU (yes, they do some good things), or the book “Rise of the Warrior Cop.” There are ways to provide police services that are not government civil service based, fit Objectivist principles, and would not promote the “military mentality” now running through so many of the modern cops

I'm finding all the rhetoric this election-cycle kind of daft. If low-income areas are having spikes in crime, they demand more services. (Which is what lead to the crime bill the Dems supported and promoted in the nineties)

Now that those communities are getting those services they respond by using it as a political position, claiming that their communities are unfairly being targeted.
You can't get more of an non-issue to run circles around than this.

The police are a brotherhood, like lodges and other community-managing social subgroups. They have loyalty to their own first and foremost. Considering the hazards of a job that deals with life and death, it's understandable. Police are, in essence, the white blood cells, the antibodies of the communal organism.

I was taught as a child that police are our friends and protectors, and indeed I have had only a couple of negative encounters.

It is a human attribute that when given power over others, a certain attitude emerges that justifies abuse of that power, whether unequal administration of justice, playing favorites, covering up, exploiting the helpless, and overstepping boundaries. The police are, after all, internal agents of force where the military are external. They need to be a collective function to exert control over individuals or smaller groups.

As with everything that involves living things, escalation and complexification happen. Our freedoms become limited, rules and laws become too numerous and restrictive, people get more rebellious and aggressive, police get more defensive, attitudes harden.

I would venture to predict the same course evolving if all we freedom lovers built our own Gulch, our own closed community. First we'd appoint or hire guardians, administrators of law and order (the "oath" or social contract), and then watch individual personalities grow into their functions and soon exceed them. Heck, it happens right here in this virtual Gulch.

Policemen used to be viewed as heroes. That and firemen were what boys wanted to grow up to be, doing good in the community. Then there is the small number who just wanted a license to be bullies. A policeman I knew (relative of a friend) would brag about the thrill of breaking down doors in SWAT raids.

Living bodies need defenses, an immune system. When they turn against their host, lupus and other diseases set in. The ethical principle of the Golden Rule, reformulated as Galt's Oath, from the simple meme of "do no harm", needs periodic refreshing, if only for mutual benefit. Then we wouldn't have to lose good men's lives and reputations in endless social conflict.

Yes, I am the incurable idealist, and proud of it. Policemen at heart are little boys who want to do good; they need love, too.

Being a former soldier and a former cop, I have nothing but respect for those uniforms and the people in them. Sure, there are Tackleberrys, in every type of uniformed unit, but the overwhelming majority are dedicated to the mission. If you look at all the causes of death in the country, as in a Pareto chart, cops are probably the smallest cause of all, even in black communities, especially if you remove the legitimate shootings (killing of thugs). Messing with cops is like poking a sleeping bear. I don't recommend it.

I've worked with Sheriff deputies and local cops (two small communities) when I was a caseworker doing child, adult abuse, domestic violence (involving kids), and juvenile delinquency cases. I've found it is the basic personality of the LEO that determines the working relationship. Some "take over," some work collaboratively, and others assess the situation before inserting their personality bias into the situation. Knowing the personality of the LEO rarely determined the outcome of the case, but it did influence whether the process of the case was smooth, rough, fun, or ugly. Now, having had those experiences, I can say that I could never be a cop. Many times that job is thankless, misunderstood, dangerous, and scary.
Looking back, the best ones I worked with were the older, seasoned guys with an experiential perspective on what they job was.... We did some good things and we did have some laughs.

The problem is a lack of boundaries taught by parents. I have had several conversations with police who seek my services and they all report that the youth of today have no idea about social standards. I had a gentleman in from the east side of Detroit agree that the kids have no respect or boundaries for anyone - police or citizens. Thanks to liberal policies the family unit is no more and the youth do not have a clue on how to keep from getting shot - by police or gangs. A simple "Yes Sir and No Sir" is all it takes. All of the officers tell me that they want to go home that night to their families and not be
a statistic. Some of the officers seem to be avoiding the high crime areas or what waiting a long time before responding. Its tough to head to a domestic violence call when gun fire is likely to be involved. Yes, there are bad players in any profession, but if you anyone with respect they too will treat you with respect. And if not, there are avenues to address this behavior, I let the other person break the Golden Rule and whenever possible I just walk away.

I think that it depends greatly on the community one is in and the prevalent attitudes of the society there. My community has great (read positive) attitudes and generally respect police officers and that respect is reciprocated. It's a big deal when there is a police shooting or altercation here, and so far, those have all been people who haven't grown up here trying to buck authority.

I think the places where the police are the most corrupt are also the places where the communities themselves are the most corrupt, or the communities which have few or very low standards of ethical behavior. It's a snowball effect either way.

Police as individuals are just that, and there are nice ones, professional ones, mean ones, town cops, city cops, criminals and those who think the police are an entitled. I do not feel the individuals are significantly different than the general population, and they have a difficult job...sometimes.

Police as an institution has become an entitled group that can do no wrong. Police do not give each other speeding tickets, generally speaking. The word of a police officer is stronger in court than ours. Many departments have become essentially another tax agency. SWAT teams using military vehicles and equipment are inappropriate and unnecessary.

On the other hand they have a tough job at times, and I am inclined to give them the benefit of doubt in shootings. There are bad shootings, but what is the percentage? I think other institutional behaviors are a bigger part of our freedom problem than the few shootings in tough situations, or by bad individuals.

The institutional behaviors are a problem. They are not in line with the intentions of there roles.

The police in my town are very polite and helpful...to the people in my town. If you drive through from another state or are pulled over and from another town, you had better not have been speeding. If you are from the town, you'll get a warning. Is this ok? I don't think so. Do they exhibit this behavior as individuals or institutionally? C'mon. However, I do like the small town, helpful part.

Well, here in California we've seen cops murder people and get away with it. I have a problem with that. Look up the Kelly Thomas case with the Fullerton Police. It was a snuff job caught on camera and they cops walked.

There are good cops. I kind of pity them. And, frankly, other than power-trip stuff they are all in it for the retirement. Few are in it to help society (not that I blame them). As a result, we get what we've got.

"Those who are on the con side seem to think that police are getting too militaristic."
I think our police are way too militaristic, but that doesn't put me on the con side or make me prejudiced against police officers. Many police officers, esp retirement-age officers who did the job prior to the SWAT-team militarization and war on people who use drugs, object to way we do policing today.

My thought for solving the problem is to have few laws and only laws that are almost universally accepted. That way the police have an army of citizens who are completely on their side. Then the police should mostly patrol the neighborhoods they know and do so on bike or foot when possible so they frequently interact with the people they serve. I think we should reduce prison sentences and use the savings to hire more police officers, since criminals are more likely to respond to the immediate risk of getting caught rather than how many years they'll be jailed if they do get caught.

Sorry folks, im 100% pro police. Yes im biased because while not directly part of the police I was an armed security guard watching and taking care of city electrical systems. Yes, there are bad guards and good guards just like the police. We did have to move along homeless folk from dangerous utility vaults where they just tried to stay warm. Some anti-utility protestors tried to destroy transformers and steal copper lines that were hot and we had to herd them away from personal danger...our thanks? Rocks, bottles, and various body fluids. We were assertive but never mean or abusive. So, I wonder where we fit into this. There are many people that dont understand that in some cases we have to use physical force (but not deadly force) to actually protect these people from greater harm.

Well, when I was going to Objectivist meetings one night a month (before my bike tire went flat; a long bus ride, and then about 30-45 minutes between the bus stop and the meeting place--there are bike racks on Richmond buses now), it seemed like every time, on the way back to the bus stop,some cop would stop me and give me a lot of patronizing nonsense about how I was endangering myself, etc. (I had flashlights taped to the bicycle because I couldn't afford regular lights).Still, they never gave me a ticket.
I haven't gone since December because of
the flat. But it was a cop from the precinct in
my neighborhood who was kind enough to repair it for me. (Unfortunately, it went flat again). I was
mugged a few weekends ago, and the punks
took my seabag and the groceries in it. And a
detective from the station came to my house
with a small backpack and some good food in
it.
I don't think the cops are always right. (I don't
think they were right in that choking case in New
York). I don't think they are always wrong, eith-
er. One should look at the facts of the case.
At least they are one of the few legitimate
functions of government.
But I suppose I am getting to have a sort of
personal bias lately. In fact, the station has be-
come a sort of hangout for me. I don't have to
buy something as an excuse to hang around.

Herb,

I grew up, respecting police officers, though I had my share of run-ins with them...none of them ever landed me in a jail cell. I even worked for the local sheriff's department, installing and repairing their radios for 5 years. I also worked closely with jail inmates and learned a lot about why they were where they were, though not exactly in the same light as they saw it.

I have 2 brothers and a son who've done jail time. All three of them deserved it. I also know an innocent man who was taken down by the police, but his fault was that he was "ambulance chasing" with his scanner and got a little too close to the bust of a big drug dealer. He was immediately released (I testified as to his innocence to a local investigator), but it was a learning lesson for him.

Of all the "bad" incidents I've seen, the suspect was generally involved in doing something either sneaky or wrong, when the police took action. Yes, there are those cases of police overstepping their bounds, but they are rare.

I'm not saying that we should turn a blind eye, but we shouldn't jump on the bandwagon every time someone claims police brutality. Perhaps we should step back and take in the entire scenario, before passing judgment on those boys in blue.

I am with you, Herb, yet there is individual variation
and great memory for negative interactions, it seems
to me. . I have been helped and irritated by police
individuals, but never heavily pissed. . other government
officials, however, have left enormous negative wakes
behind their actions. . for "bureaucrats," they are
quite fine -- especially since they are walking targets
with personal conflicts over the life-and-death nature
of their jobs! -- j
.

I think that Police like any other profession have both good and bad people working with in the group. As with any other group you hear more about the bad than you do the good.

With that said I do dislike the ever increasing militarization of the profession and I hate the very essence of their traffic duties. I understand the need for traffic control; however, I have had multiple experiences with Police writing tickets as nothing more than revenue generating exercises for the community. Here in Texas I was once pulled over for a seatbelt violation by a pair of Officers who both had their seatbelts buckled behind them. When I fought it in court, I won but was still required to pay court cost which amounted to only $10.00 less than the original ticket. Of course I had to take a day off work to fight the ticket.

By and large the individual police officers go in to the profession because they want to help people. Unfortunatly gulchers also realize that they at some point will be used by the government as the Internal Military that Obama talked about in his first election speeches. Let me remind you that the Execution squads that the Nazis sent to Poland during WW2 were police units. These units marched Jews out in to the woods and shot them in the back of the neck. Most of these guys also signed up to serve their communities but were turned by the government in to mass killers. Believe it or not, that could happen here in the USA. Correctly motivated and propagandized, our guys could do the same thing. When Gultcher's see local police getting MRAP vehicles assault gear and hiding their faces behind masks, we get concerned.

Personally I have a better outlook on police. However, I live outside the city limits, so I deal with Sheriff's department and they are a little better. I have had a city policeman follow me from the VFW all the way to the city limit because he thought that maybe I was a DUI for him to pull over, even though I don't drink alcohol. But overall, the police and all the other law enforcement in the area hold "Night Outs" for the locals to interact with them. They give rides to the kids in Fire Engines and Police Cruisers. We also have a AFB (Cannon) just outside of town and several Federal agencies here so it encompasses a lot of different entities. Rural areas in general are better for police and other agencies as they are a bigger part of the community.

Generally speaking police officers do not function most often on the side of the citizen. They view the rules that they work under something they can personally interpret and that is the problem. Yes there are many courteous police but they are in the minority. They are civil servants and when they see the civil servant at the top of the heap; i.e. 0 they say if he can do it his way so can I and that is why as Abaco points out the police do kill people and get away with it. One thing that really disturbs me is when they kill someones dog that never attacks them and for that I think they should be tried for murder as well. Herb, go our on rounds with your favorite cousin's son to see how he handles situations. You might be surprised.

Police are tasked with a very difficult job. Like all of society there is good and evil. Remove internal investigations that aren't transparent, and expose corruption. Remove the good old boy network.
By and large the police actually do a public service, unlike our political public servants who only serve themselves.
I also am horrified by the treatment and the rush to judgement of the administration in many recent cases that are local events not federal cases. Police are innocent until proven guilty just like other US citizens and should be afforded an unbiased support for their work.

I abhor wise guys...and I've had my share. Conversely, I have seen more of the opposite. However, I know the brain set, strict adherence to "Rules"; man made rules, nothing to do with safety, nothing to do with anything really bad...just had to give a ticket.
But I will say this...probably because I am a normal citizen and never lived in a city, never was into drugs, I never had the occasion to witness the kind of stuff we see on lamestream, never seen any really bad behavior...just stupid behavior on occasion.
Since I have really started investigating and writing, every policeman I meet, I thank them for their service and explain the cultural situation we are in and ask them, if TSHF to please stick with the community and do not follow government nor their union leaders...most of them appreciate that.
Whether they will or not, remains to be seen...guess we must be careful and hope for the best.

As I see it, there is a real problem between the police and the citizenry, but the problem is actually deeper – it is the problem between the government and the citizens. Living in America and being in the midst of this issue since one can remember oneself, it is not so noticeable, but taking a look from the outside it is hard not see the problem staring in on one’s face – American government has long ago seized being the “government of the people by the people” – instead, it is its own monstrosity and the people have become feed for the monster. The police, being a government agency, have long ago stopped serving the citizens; it’s only customer is the State. Not only has this been confirmed by the courts (the police have no responsibility in protecting the citizen), but is obvious in most interactions between the police and the people. The financial and promotional incentives are setup up at the expense of the citizen – quotas for giving out tickets, for example – the entire concept seems criminal, yet is practiced by many municipalities. Cops protecting their own – criminal acts non-withstanding – when Catholic priests protect child rapists in their midst, when sports coaches protect rapists in their midst, when Hillary’s minions protect their boss, when Obama’s drone’s protect their boss – do we not call them criminals? Why, then, do we call a cop who knowingly protects his criminal coworker a “good apple”? The system is corrupted, much of it beyond the control of individual police officers. But many of these officers happily take advantage of the corruption by placing themselves above and beyond the law and its limitations – they lie in court, they lie to the citizens (supported in this by the courts), take material advantage of being outside the law and often treat citizens (not criminals) with disdain. There is a reason why schools try to portray cops as the “good guys” – I call it damage control. But, you know what, some children grow up and see reality for what it is – the police force is here to serve the State and to protect it from the citizen.