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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 9 months ago
    Doesn't this directly restrict interstate commerce?
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    • Posted by 3 years, 9 months ago
      Yes, I absolutely believe it does, which begs the question, how did this happen and how do we find out how it happened and how to repeal it?
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      • Posted by jdg 3 years, 9 months ago
        Any court where the charge is brought should simply strike down the law as violating the dormant interstate commerce clause. If a repeal effort is even necessary then the judge needs to lose his job, too.
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    • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 9 months ago
      This does not restrict interstate commerce any more than any law in any one state would. Sales tax and mail order is an easy example. A thousand years ago, when I first got married, the law was 21 years of age for both without parental consent. Like many others, we just drove to a different state and got married there. However, Ohio law also said that if you do that, you are not legally married in Ohio. Tons of other examples exist.

      Your theory would invalidate every local or state law, or make them all federal laws...
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
        Read the same sex stuff lately. that's 18 states yes the rest no and the supreme court ruled it is now the law in all states.....gotta keep up up with the times Mike....your looking at the old rules...
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  • Posted by  $  jbrenner 3 years, 9 months ago
    Because Minnesota's government wants to control us. Is this the year when the grain in Minnesota spoils because Taggart Transcontinental doesn't send the trains?
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  • Posted by johnpe1 3 years, 9 months ago
    this sounds like the State-specific health insurance
    restrictions which effectively prohibit the purchase of
    an insurance policy from another State's business.
    changing these restrictions may take a popular
    uprising of spectacular proportions. -- j
    .
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  • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 years, 9 months ago
    Being half a Swede who never set foot in Minnesota, I've known for a long time that state is filled with Swedes, and many Swedes have names that end with "strom" such as mine.
    To answer the "why," consider socialist Sweden and how that mindset relates to the word "regulation."
    So there ya go.
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
      You could have been a Norwegian if you had been lucky...Ufta!!!
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      • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 years, 9 months ago
        I read somewhere that the Nazis decided to attack and conquer Norway because their air force had one air field while the Swedes had several
        So nyah!
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        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
          Germanic language, Nazi party in operation in country, Long sea coast controlling entrance the north end of Russia and tthe Baltic, approaches to German itself. they had more than one airfield. Swedes had declared neutrality and were no threat. Finland under control of Soviet Union and the rest of the Baltic and the Western Approaches under control of Soviet Union or Germany itself. all the way around to the straits of Gibralter counting Spain, and neutral Portugal. Al lof Soutthern Europe except Turkey. Takes no miltitary genius to see the reason for Norway.Ireland of no consequence that left Great Britain, Iceland, and what? Azores and and Canary Islands?
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          • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 years, 9 months ago
            Oh, yeah, so you know something I didn't. So freakin' what? Those Norwegians still ain't so hot. Even though they hogged the glory during the Viking age.
            Swedish vikings actually took control of all the Russian and whatever else rivers that ran down to the Mediterranean..
            Ever see the 13th Warrior? That Muslim wrote Eaters Of The Dead after he got mixed up with what had to be very brave and heroic as all heck 12 Swedish vikings. I read it back in the 60s when it was called an autobiographical work..
            Michael Crichton slapped the title, The 13th Warrior on it and passed it off as his own work during the 90s That Muslim character in the movie was still telling that story from his own perspective.
            I bought that Crichton book too before the movie came out. And I was saying, "Hey, I read this before a long while back."
            So I know what I'm nyah nyah nyah talking about. Guess there ain't no copyright protection for something medieval.
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            • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
              Some play in the rivers when a horse would have doen the same thing, some cross hitherto unexplored oceans. And some pretend to discover something that was already there. In order... Norwegians, Irish, Portuguese, Italians working for the Spanish etc. So much for Giovanni Come Lately. The Swedes were more into wenching...now they are getting wenched in return.
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              • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 years, 9 months ago
                I'll buy that.
                Er, whoa. No, I won't. Don't like that part beyond wenching.
                Hopefully, this half Swede descendant of a turn of the 20th Century immigrant (along with an Irish quarter genetically gifted to me by my mom's mama) won't get wenched in the good ole' USA.
                After all, one and a half sets of my grandparents came here to avoid getting wenched in the Old World.
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                • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
                  To be honest me great grandfather was Norwegian and his wife was a Swede. Me grandfather was half and half and his wife was Norwegian and German and Swedish Finnish.

                  On me mums side they were Norman English out of Normandy with the 1066 invasion out of Norway on the one side. Norwegian English out of the long ships but that side goes back to pre 1000. A bit of this and a bit of that i'm sure with some Saxon and Celt One odd bit of the family tree comes from Ukraine with a mix of Swedes and descendants of the Horde but it's a slender strand.

                  Like most from Europe there is a great deal of mix....and as my sister pointed out most of us are descended from some form of royalty as ...they got the food and the medicine and the peasants fought on the ground with little armor.

                  But for ufta purposes I do the Son of Norway bit. Drives the swedes half crazy but then they are closer to the Finnish Line...

                  The Scandanavians to be all inclusive did spread a bit of blonde and red haired pollen around the continent. Ireland a good example who hosted another influence from those who survived the sinking of the Armada thus Blonde/Red hair Irish with freckles and the Black Irish....with Mediterranean genes.

                  Easier that way ..... so the proper word would be Mongrel-American not Mongol. As for diversity? I'm North American....and that's enough for me.
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                  • Posted by  $  allosaur 3 years, 9 months ago
                    I did not mention my other quarter. My maternal grandfather looked like a tall Frenchman mostly due to his nose. My mother once said he wasn't 100% French, though. Don't know the what else.
                    His ancestors were the French Canadians that the Brits kicked out of Arcadia. Many followed the Mississippi to become Cajuns.
                    My grandfather's ancestors headed to the northeast. Go east, young ousted Frenchie!
                    Grandpa was a postmaster in New Jersey and lived with Irish Grandma in an apartment above a downtown liquor store.
                    When visiting as a Massachusetts born Alabama kid, I liked to go higher up a hallway of stairs and look around town from a flat topped roof.
                    Geese at a nearby reservoir were terrifying for territorial.
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  • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
    It violates two major rulings

    The restraint of interstate trade 240 years old along as listed in both Article 1 and 4.

    The money as free speech rule.

    However I don't expect it to be overturned on those points but rather an ACLU filing will cause the law to be applied to all states as wad done with Same Sex.

    Opponents don't really care either way. Hot Air does not accomplish desired effect.

    HOWEVER the price of oil is of interest. You might remember the reason for supporting the drop in pump prices by the feds. My prediction came true. So government could raise taxes on the 'found money' and 'fair share' principles.

    Ten Dollar tax per barrel proposed by Obeyme meaning if congress doesn't pass it I'll dictate it.

    Have a nice day.
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  • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 9 months ago
    This is well-known in the numismatic community. Thanks to Snoogoo for linking to my article from last year.

    There was no special intent or hidden agenda. They just regulate things. It's what they do. However, the strong conservative, libertarian, and objectivish currents within numismatics carried forward a massive resistance. If you read my article there, you will see that many firms simply refuse to sell to anyone from Minnesota. Even if a Minnesotan travels out of state, some dealers will not sell to them, so as not to be subject to the law. It is a producers' strike, really.

    However, as is often the case, a couple of very large and important numismatic firms are in Minnesota, including the one owned by Gary Adkins, a longtime ANA stalwart member and board governor. He registered. Other firms did as well.

    You make your choices.
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    • Posted by 3 years, 9 months ago
      Thanks for replying, so how do we go about getting the legislation repealed?
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      • Posted by DeanStriker 3 years, 9 months ago
        Probably there's no way - it would be up to the politicians who passed the "law". There are thousands of such "laws" we can't get rid of, as they pass more than we can keep up with, which includes those disguised as "regulations".
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      • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 9 months ago
        Fighting unrealities such as this only validates the people behind them: you grant them a sanction by admitting that their process is legitimate.

        This can be defeated by complying with it, completely and consistently. Minnesota will contract in precious metals sales while states such as Michigan (among others) that do not impede commerce in this product will prosper from increases in trade and commerce.

        Have you read Atlas Shrugged (as opposed to only having seen the movies)?
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        • Posted by CircuitGuy 3 years, 9 months ago
          "Fighting unrealities such as this only validates the people behind them"
          Why do you call them unrealities? You're saying it is legal to sell to MN residents, but some dealers choose not to b/c of MN's onerous regulations. IANAL, but it just seems like a MN resident travelling to another state should not be affected by MN law in a way that restricts commerce. I can see the other side, though, that MN law could apply to its residents outside the state, causing some not to do trades with them.
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  • Posted by term2 3 years, 9 months ago
    Simple- Gold is a hedge against the worthlessness of the inflated dollar. Governments want to hide the effects of what they do (printing money), and gold allows citizens to stay whole in the face of inflation.

    FDR confiscated all gold in the 30's just before he devalued the dollar, therefore extracting a great deal of saved wealth from the citizens.
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    • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 9 months ago
      President Roosevelt's Executive Order 6102 did not "confiscate all gold."

      In the Gulch here:
      https://www.galtsgulchonline.com/post...
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      • Posted by term2 3 years, 9 months ago
        It requires you turn on your good for which he paid a fraction of what it was worth. Then he devalued the dollars he gave you by nearly half. You didn't have the option of keeping the gold. That means to me confiscation. They will do it again
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        • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 9 months ago
          Did you read the article? Not only could you keep your gold, you could buy more. Many people did.
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          • Posted by term2 3 years, 9 months ago
            I downloaded the executive order from FDR issues aprim 5,1933 that says "all persons are required to deliver before may 1, 1933 all Gold Coin, Gold Bullion, and Gold Certificates now owned by them to A Federal Reserve Bank, branch or agency...."

            Criminal penalties for violation of executive order $10,000 fine or 10 years imprisonment, or both, as provided in section 9 of this order"

            This came from the actual order on that date. Check it out. It was very disturbing, but exactly the thing our government will do when the dollar gets devalued here.
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  • Posted by mshupe 3 years, 9 months ago
    Sounds like typical rent seeking cronyism, protectionist regulations, manufacturing a problem to solve to justify more government interference.
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  • Posted by wiggys 3 years, 9 months ago
    mn is the only state with muslims representing the population of the state so i guess that tells you something about their "law makers" . one more reason not to live in mn.
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  • Posted by 3 years, 9 months ago
    I emailed Governor Dayton regarding repealing this legislation. I don't understand how this happened to us in Minnesota without some serious public discourse. I have been making public inquiries and very few people that I've spoken to are aware that this went down without our public knowledge. Please let me know any thoughts on how to overcome this obstacle to allow us to buy gold and precious metals like the rest of the nation!
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    • Posted by  $  Flootus5 3 years, 9 months ago
      I think you want to go black market anyway.
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      • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
        it's ony black market if it's illegal and it's only illegal in Minnesota which means one of two things The court will rule it illegal every where regardless of the rules of the other states or legal everywhere.May i remind you the federal government alone claims ownership of some one million ounces of gold at $35 an ounce then $45 what it is know I don't know but it's nowhere near street value. No explanation for that bit of stupidity. but even at a 1323 times 000,000 it's nowhere near enough to cover the natinal debt so serves no useful purpose in that political charade. Federal law made gold ownership legal Minnesota is in violation. If they wanted to go aftrer fraud it's different statutes.

        So what was the purpose. I smell some secular progressive, ACLU chicanery sniff sniff and that means Soros is involved.
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    • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 9 months ago
      You can buy gold in Minnesota. You just have to go to a licensed dealer. The law regulates dealers, not consumers. The dealer has to give you a full run down on the value of the precious metal you are buying.

      As for why you did not know about it... Well, in Hitchhiker's Guide the Galaxy Arthur Dent was dismayed to find a bulldozer outside his home -- but it had been a City Council agenda item for two years. He just never went to council meetings.

      As I said above, the numismatic community knew about it from the first, and could not stop it. That community includes the Industry Group for Tangible Assets (ICTA). They could not stop it, either.
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  • Posted by  $  MikeMarotta 3 years, 9 months ago
    Here is a link to a PDF of the law:
    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/laws/?year...

    The burdens are on the sellers, not the buyers. They must register, pay fees, and pay a surety bond to the state.

    Moreover, as I pointed out in another discussion, the law also applies, for example, to the rate "silver center cents" of the early Federal republic. Only 12 of these rare pattern coins are known. They contain about 6 cents of silver today, and sell for about half a million dollars to any collector who wants one.
    http://coins.ha.com/itm/patterns/1792...
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  • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 9 months ago
    Look what Minnesota elects. A wrestler and a comedy writer. Along with a fence between us and Mexico, there should be a fence between us and Minnesota.
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    • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
      We need less of a fence betwen us and Mexico it's only there because greedy truly greedy people want slave labor instead of paying real wages in the US and other greed truly greeeeeeddddy people want votes they can can control and still others want one dollar hamburgers.

      not a speck of egoism in the bunch we should be recruiting them in advance and making them feel more and more legally welcome but no we gotta iimport terrorists instead to help out the Socialists.

      A for Minnesota they elected a Libertarian and a Secular Progressive. Gave us two Polar opposites. Go figure.
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      • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 9 months ago
        Both are incompetent do-nothing people who for some reason capture the imaginations of Minnisotans. It must be the cold weather, or lack of sex, or something in the water.
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        • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
          Nah they are just tired of even more incompetence they usually get like the wannabe comedian. They should have tried Dylan instead ha ha ha
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          • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 9 months ago
            Oh, you mean little Bobby Zimmerman?
            I don't think so.
            I'm thinking more of a cartoon character, maybe Bugs Bunny, Their voters seem a lot to be very similar to Elmer Fudd
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            • Posted by  $  MichaelAarethun 3 years, 9 months ago
              Almost by not quite Gotcha! Still he makes more sense than do most politicians especially the comedian who really is a joke.
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              • Posted by Herb7734 3 years, 9 months ago
                Yes, the Bobster is a very potent poet. As a college kid I was studying Musicology and as a result was lucky to interview both Theodore Bikel and the newly minted Dylan, who was then a kid even younger than me but was just starting to gain a reputation. In those days, I was 20 or 21, and he was, I guess, around 17. My only description of him was "fuzzy." He looked fuzzy and talked fuzzy. But when he sang in that nasal voice with that stupid harmonica, he was transformed and I knew I was hearing a newly hatched giant. Ugly, but powerful.
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