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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
    It is caused by the new oil fields a huge surplus and we're exporting oil now for the first time since 1970. That's the supply/demand side and pure economics at play.
    HOWEVER

    The Government side has two faces. Yes they will take credit and probably hope it will drive the price down because there's a Catch 22...

    They are also talking and actively workingi at raising the federal fuel tax since all that savings is really 'found money' and the government wants it's fair share. (BIG tongue in cheek on the explanation. But a tax hike is in the mill.)
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      I have heard that idea floated. The administration seems to be at a loss as to why the retail numbers are so bad. It's so cheap now to drive to the mall and spend our gas savings the numbers should be up according to government sources.
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  • Posted by $ sjatkins 8 years, 2 months ago
    I am somewhat worried because the actual amount of increase in supply doesn't justify this fast and deep a drop. There has been a very large decrease in demand. Why? I am not sure of all the why details but one very large part is that China is starting to reap the results of its top down command and control version of "capitalism". Its misinvestments and printing of money are coming home hard. A lot of the Chinese explosize growth is slowing and this is hitting commodities across the board including oil. It is also rippling out to other banks and businesses and countries deeply dependent on Chinese high demand. That imho is no small part of what is happening.

    I feel a bit like one does standing at the ocean seeing the water line much much further out than normal. Beware.
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    • Posted by term2 8 years, 2 months ago
      Its lower demand, and thats not a bad thing for a limited resource. China has been our bit*& for awhile now. They have allowed the US government to print money without inflation like we had in the 70-80's. The chickens will come home to roost though. There is a big inflation coming here in the USA, or some sort of financial collapse,

      There is no free lunch, and not in china either. Currently, prices for chinese goods that we buy have been falling. I buy for our company and I see the prices declining. Thats good for us.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      I saw the stock market in China went up when they reported their worst growth in 25 years. The expectation is they will do their version of QE. It seems government pumping on bad news is considered normal now. Wonder what happens if they do nothing???
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      • Posted by $ blarman 8 years, 2 months ago
        An interesting idea, but I wonder which nation is going to absorb the costs of their currency manipulations. The US can pawn off our QE on the rest of the world due to our economy and the dollar's status as the world reserve currency.

        I guess time will tell...
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
        Rich, I saw an article that stated they have been doing QE for 4 years now to keep their "growth" up and hide the real issue from their billion or so. They are desperately afraid the people who did not do the "move to the city" thing will revolt when they find out they cannot buy a box of rice. Graham Summers says they have been running close to a billion a day in dollars to keep their system afloat in December, which is why he has been forecasting our market drop for almost a year now, which was staved off by the Fed.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 2 months ago
    Here in OK, we breathe the energy market, non-stop. The reality is that the profit point for shale oil is $36/barrel, while Russia can make some small profit at $24/barrel, and the Saudis can manage $13/barrel, as can Iran.

    While the profit picture isn't good for the American suppliers right now, the important thing is maintaining the cash flow to cover debt and expenses. We have a glut of oversupply sitting in Cushing, OK, so releasing that supply to overseas markets will keep the cash coming in, for the short term. If the doomsayers are correct, and the price remains at $20 or less per barrel for the next couple of years, the industry will be in dire straits, unable to generate profit from their most productive wells.

    While we like to think of the U.S. as primarily an industrial supplier of finished products, the reality is that commodities are still a major source of income. Oil, natural gas, coal, minerals, crops, and animal products are big export items, and a dramatic drop in demand for any of those items can put a big dent in our GDP.

    With "friends" like the Saudis, we need few enemies, as their purposeful distortion of the market, generating oversupply against a shrinking demand is as damaging an assault on our national interest as a military strike. Ironically, the best thing for the U.S. right now would be a shooting war in the Gulf of Oman, stopping Saudi and Iranian oil delivery.
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    • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 2 months ago
      Hmmm. Prior email did not go through. Let me try again.

      But isn't 'selling at their best price' exactly what the Saudi's should do. Why should they inflate their prices to the benefit of their US competitors in the fracking industry?

      Jan
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 2 months ago
        The Saudis aren't "selling at their best price." Their budgets were scaled at a higher price per barrel, and they're now spending out of their reserve accounts heavily. They're gambling that they can drive their Russian and American competitors out of business before they go deeply in debt. They're killing their compatriots in OPEC, who don't have the economic depth of even Russia, and it may mean the destruction of that organization.
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        • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 2 months ago
          So, they are selling at a 'loss leader' price? Is that the $13 per barrel price? Does that price include the cost of transporting it to the US, or is that added on depending on where it is shipped?

          So, one of the articles I read pointed out that fracking can act as a buffer in a solution: you can turn it on or off relatively quickly. If that is so, then 'turn fracking off' and let the Saudi's loss leader dismantle OPEC and Russian oil. Then we 'turn it back on'.

          It seems to me that this sort of price war is in the best traditions of capitalism...I just want us to 'win'.

          Jan, not unbiased
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          • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 2 months ago
            The stronger US energy companies are diversified as to source, the global market being what it is, and some have shares of the Saudi supply. Those companies will survive, and may in fact be using the Saudis to drive their competition out of business. Well capping is an old practice to reserve added supply for when demand rises.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      This administration has made many enemies. I wonder if the Saudis are just being selfish or if their actions are retaliation for something Obama did???
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      • Posted by DrZarkov99 8 years, 2 months ago
        The Saudis are conducting economic warfare on the U.S. because they know the Obama administration is too weak-minded to take retaliatory action. They're running a much bigger risk with Russia, but Russia is the ally of their enemy, Iran. Part of this may be out of anger at Obama for making a deal with Iran.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
          Doc, I am not so sure they are doing much warefare at this point. I saw a chart that places SA at the bottom for costs, then Iran. With Iran in the mix now (much to the SA disappointment, they wanted them left on the sidelines under a leash, as they know they will renege on any agreement, continue to build a bomb, and may use it on them and Israel) Iran can further undermine the price and drive SA deeper into financial distress, as they have a pretty socialist state (they give everyone money, based on political favor). The greater the distress, the better their chance of getting an Islamic revolution going against SA by those that get cut off from the free money.
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  • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 2 months ago
    Thank you for asking this question, richrobinson. I have been wondering if there were something I was missing when I read the alarming news reports. I think that 'low oil prices' are good. That means we can do more stuff with oil and then sell it at a cheaper price.

    When people quote the 'cost' of oil from overseas, from Saudi for example, does that include the transportation cost to get it to the US?

    Jan, not an economist
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  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
    Supply and demand doesn't work so long as government manipulation is involved in any way. Even in the slightest of involvement. It throws the nature of things askew and never accounts for peripheral damage.
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    • Posted by ProfChuck 8 years, 2 months ago
      "Progressives" make the assumption that economics is an invention rather than a discovery. As such they believe that fundamental economic principals can be manipulated in much the same way as civil law. When you consider that most politicians are retread lawyers this should come as no surprise. The law is an invention and therefore subject to manipulation at will. Economics, however, follows basic principals
      that are as real as the physical principals of gravity or thermodynamics. These economic principals are just as real as the physicals ones and just as difficult to thwart. The "law" of supply and demand is a simplified description of one of these principals. There are close similarities between economic models and those found in physics. Economic systems can be modeled as a recursive dynamic construct. Like the power distribution system it consists of a source, a means of storage, a means of delivery, and a network of loads, or consumers. In such a system it is the load that dominates performance by placing demands on the rest of the system which can either meet the demand or fail.
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      • Posted by $ jlc 8 years, 2 months ago
        I agree with you, Prof, and with Herb too: I would not put economic laws in the same class as physics, but they are closer to physical laws than they are to arbitrary man-made laws.

        Your point about people believing that economics can be manipulated without an inherent 'cost' is well stated. Physical laws can likewise be manipulated if you take the cost into consideration (we can make a hollow hunk o'metal fly us through the sky, for example).

        Thank you both for making valid points.

        Jan
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      • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
        Physical laws are immutable. If they are changed somehow it would distort the very fabric of reality. Economic laws are not quite that strong. When they are misused they don't work properly but they can cause hardship to one group while benefitting another. Once that occurs they will cause the exact opposite of what the libs claim to desire, which is overall equity.
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        • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
          Indeed, the unending manipulations of the government (both right and left) has created a monster that will blow up at the slightest nudge. The fact that oil is also a manipulated commodity that is bought and sold in ways to make that manipulation, makes just pegging low price to reduced costs and therefore increased output/value, suspect. Remember when Bush released a few million barrels from the SOR? Gas was near 5 bucks and it dropped quite a bit, and it was all because Katrina had damaged a bunch of platforms. The amount was inconsequential to the overall volume, but still had an effect. There are layers of layers of "derivatives" based on oil (an just about anything else today) that can be manipulated one way or the other that have nothing to do with the actual commodity. That is where the whole economic system breaks down, you can't have a system that bets for and against and both sides win, which is what happens. In addition, we have the tar sands and fracking that added extra supply on top of Iran now, so there is a glut, and with China reeling, the demand is just not there. So goes the price...
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          • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
            It's like humanity is manipulating itself back into curious apes. So greedy that their greed in the long run ( and maybe the shorter run) will destroy them. Rand had an exalted view of mankind, illustrating what it could and should be. She also showed how the dark side cannot tolerate the achievers and by tearing them down, inevitably destroy themselves.
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            • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
              Indeed Herb, I think Rand recognized there is almost a distinct seperation of people: the builders, and the destroyers. I see a lot of corrolation in how there is a fundamental financial group, and a huge herd of people who have created mystical money instruments that led to a bigger and bigger circle of artificial non-existent things traded for value. There are so many variations on commodities now it is no longer just pork belly futures, but bizzare bets on prices 3-6 months out wrapped up into instruments that then get traded over and over again. I lost track of all the artificial stuff years ago and gave up ever understanding it. Yet trading in these artificial instruments make and break millionaires every day.
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              • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
                Yes. As many frothing and bubbling brains filled with I'll get mine and to hell with everyone else, as there are out there, the wonder is that anything positive gets accomplished at all. It seems to me that in the past, this type of person was so far in the minority so that doing the immoral thing was mostly anathema and as a result the moochers were to an extent kept in check. This morality for the most part, no longer exists. The roller coaster has gone off the tracks so hang on tight and keep a tight ass.
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                • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
                  Is it beating horses or choir preaching? Perhaps an illusion of tracks with roller coasters? The idea alone has no substance something like speaking equating to accomplishment.
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                  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
                    You've lost me.
                    I don't understand your comment.
                    It might be that a rusty channel in this ancient brain has frozen up.
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                    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
                      Beating a horse to death is a euphemism for having to explain a subject multiple times and then the same questions still come up. Preaching to the choir is of course an audience that was on the same side to begin with.

                      The illusion was an alternate choice to your comment as if one could ride a roller coaster that wasn't there. Political version is thinking what candidates say has any real importance in their selection or at worst is a signpost of what they will not do. I was waxing eloquent while waiting for boat parts to show up. The system for that is something like the illusion of the roller coaster.
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              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
                They also made and obliterated the housing market and there in lies the purpose. Nothing was done that wasn't government approved or demanded. and required. A very large bed full of perverts.
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                • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                  yes, we got caught up in that, we are still trying to sell our large property to scale down, and because everyone changes the value of our property (I have seen it at 500K, and all the way down to 280K on zillow) we have been trying to sell it ourselves. We did the MLS yourself thing (400.00) and was told by a person who has a Realtor girlfriend, no Realtor would send anyone to use because we refused to give them 6% (about 13K each) to them for just sending someone. We offered a 1% fee to any Realtor who did and they raised their noses. There is way too much manipulation and blackmail in the system, too few people have too much control so there is almost no free market. The result will be more and more money siphoned off to feed their addictions.
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                  • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
                    By the way, we sold our San Diego condo in 2005. We didn't mind the 6% because we made so damn much money on it that we could easly afford it. Not so much a few years later. Real estate has always been kind to us, but I don't attribute it to any perspicacity on our part.
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                    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
                      I baled in 2006. 2008 the country went bankrupt...Good move on your part. I had a mentor that gave a group of us classes. I did not buy gold but I did remove the funds from the USA.
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                      • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
                        We are currently turning a certain amount of our funds into cash. The part that is in banks isn't earning enough to matter, and the suspicion that the banks can now take money from private accounts has us spooked. We haven't yet decided what to do with the several options open to us, we will resolve it before the month is out.
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                        • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                          A friend of mine keeps buying gold and silver, then burying it around his property, and says his 357 is more insurance than the FDIC. Gotta like it...
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                          • Posted by Herb7734 8 years, 2 months ago
                            He's got a point. I just purchased a sleek new 357. However, I'm not too keen on doing the Soprano's thing. I'm thinking of renting a small storage facility. I also have an old safe in the house. Then, there's various overseas accounts. Sheesh. You'd think I was a multi-millionaire, and not just a careful money guy.
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                            • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                              Be careful on the overseas accounts, I am sure they will find a way to seize them too...
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                              • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
                                I'm listed as homeless ha ha they don't count boats apparently. All my income except a small union check is from the government they can cut me off any time they want along with the rest of the retired veterans. In some ways they already have. repudiating a goodly number of retirement benefits. so ....I keep the Florida address and they can think I'm there. No record of leaving the country. It's so far not a requirement ....I empty out my monthly accounts as fast as possible but then I spend some through Amazon so it looks good at first glance. The concept is called hide in the open.
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                                • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                                  Well that is nice. I do understand your point about retirement, when I enlisted in 1976 they filled me with the joy of all the goodies I would earn, and by retirement in 1996 I found they had just lied about it. It was there in 76, they just kept taking and taking. As we devolve into a state of a few rich, corrupt elites who generate nothing that they haven't stolen, and the 98% of the rest of the population being their targets, it will keep reaching out. Good idea on the boat...
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                                  • MichaelAarethun replied 8 years, 2 months ago
  • Posted by wiggys 8 years, 2 months ago
    if oil in general is not selling and that is causing the price to drop the effect also takes place on all products made from oil other than fuel, such as polyester. The amount of polyester made from oil by products in in the millions of pounds so the millions of pounds is reduced. The trickle down effect is under way.
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    • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
      90 days is the lead time for any changes in oil prices and pump prices. What happened 90 days ago. The middle of October or thereabout? What occurs today affects those prices middle of April. Adjusted for seasonal fluctuation which means preparation for the summer driving system (changing) and the switch from heating to airconditioning.(might be changing.) If they miss the mark nothing can be done that will occur prior to 90 days out.
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  • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 2 months ago
    My guess is there are at least 2 reasons.

    First, many people have bought paper oil at $80 a barrel or greater and are losing big on it now.

    Second and the bigger issue is the governments that set budgets on selling $80 oil and will not have the money to fund all their handouts with low oil prices. Not much different than our own government that spends every single dime + it takes in on programs that we cannot afford.
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    • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
      There is some question that some Arab states may collapse with low prices. Saudi Arabia was looking at 80 a barrel as a stable point, it is funny that Iran (who can sell it for cost at this point just for cash) is trying to dump it as fast as they can. That may trigger conditions for the revolution in SA that they want.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      Good reasons. I was thinking if the price was actually market driven that occasional dips would increase demand and the price would go back up. Oil is so manipulated I can't figure out if this is normal price fluctuations or high stakes political maneuvering.
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      • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 2 months ago
        I have the idea that it is both normal because demand is down and political maneuvering. Other factors include fracking & sanctions lifted on Iran. I'm sure there is more but cannot think of them right now.
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        • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
          The drop is hurting Russia and our fracking industry. Two things the Obama administration must be enjoying.
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          • Posted by edweaver 8 years, 2 months ago
            Not sure if Obama is enjoying. He wants energy high so we can all go solar and save the polar bears. But then again cheap oil will make it easier to tax per Michael's point.
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            • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
              I was thinking of the damage to the fracking industry. Oil is too cheap to make it profitable right now.
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              • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                Several things in paly here, the fracking, the Middle East politics, the consumers and Dumbocraps wanting to watch it blow so they can say " We will save you" like 8 years ago. Wait for "Change" to get rolled out.
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                • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
                  Obama is in the last year of a 2 term Presidency. He still has support among the ideologues but the masses, IMHO, will blame him if things crash on his watch. I just hope we can ride this out.
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                  • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                    It is funny he is in exactly the same position Bush Jr was in his Presidency...why do we have to be repeat offenders?
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                    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
                      I remember in 08 pundits saying things wouldn't get that bad cause it was an election year. Maybe crashes in election years is the new normal.
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                      • Posted by CircuitGuy 8 years, 2 months ago
                        A random distribution looks "clumpy" and irregular to the human mind. The mind seeks order. So we see constellations in random distributions of stars. Politicians have less influence than people think.

                        OTOH I am listening to CNBC right now and am more down than ever on central banks pulling their levers. These guys spend as much time on guessing what central banks will do than working out who's creating the things that will be valuable to the economy a few years from now.

                        People would do technical analysis and momentum speculation even if there were no central bank, but my goodness. We put together this monetary system, and it just motivates people to spend their time trying to get inside its head instead of getting stuff done.

                        I keep thinking of straightlinelogic said: try to think about what money would be if you'd never heard of the modern monetary system.
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                      • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                        It is funny how that works, isn't it?
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                        • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
                          I just hope Obama gets the blame for what is going to happen.
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                          • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                            That is the funny part, blame seems to be this nebulous thing with no substance to it. Look at HillaryBeast: broken laws all over the place, and nothing. Yet an average Joe would be in jail already. The Obamanation just does whatever he wants, and if he can't get it through the system, just goes around it and performs self legislation. And lets not forget the Piglet Pelosi "You aren't going home until you pass Obamanation Care" hijacking. Yet no one ever blames them for the fact some people have a 1000% increase in their insurance premiums, when it was proven they all lied, made things up and basically screwed us all. And it still isn't enough to get it repealed. That one issue alone is proof that the sheeple just bitch and moan and then vote for the idiot again hoping they will be better on round 2. Dumb asses, every one of them...
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                            • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
                              I really don't get the Hillary thing. Why is more investigation needed? Put the cuffs on her already. She can be convicted with the stuff that has been released to the press. The FBI must have even more. She needs to go down.
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                              • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
                                Yep, that is the Great Mystery. I heard some start muttering that is why shes started being nice to his Obamaness. Can't hurt to try to butter him up, but in the end..maybe he will pardon her?
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                                • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
                                  My understanding is to accept a pardon you have to admit guilt. She would never do that. The Clintons and Obamas do hate each other. I wonder what Barry will do???
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                                  • nickursis replied 8 years, 2 months ago
                                  • MichaelAarethun replied 8 years, 2 months ago
  • Posted by $ jdg 8 years, 2 months ago
    This is not the free market working. Demand has not fallen. It is deliberate manipulation by the big nationalized oil producers, especially Saudi Aramco, who want to bankrupt our producers so we'll have to buy from them. (Most of the top 20 oil companies in the world are governments.)

    Beware if the federal government offers bailouts. I'm sure they would like to nationalize the oil fields and shut them down to please the eco-nuts and freeze us.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      Great points. I here there are a lot of loans out there that might start going bad. Just the crisis the Feds need.
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      • Posted by $ nickursis 8 years, 2 months ago
        not sure what the exact status is of market pressure, since we also have the ethanol crowd mixed in, the biggest losers will be all the gamblers who trade all the funny money paper on them, who will blow up, and expect to be called "too big to fail" and get rescued...again..
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago
    The Great Depression Part II as expected. AKA The Cycle of Economic Repression Part....tooo many to count. AKA Whose heads are on the chopping block this time?"
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  • Posted by Ben_C 8 years, 2 months ago
    Great comments. I always get an education in the Gulch. What about the underground cash economy? In Ukraine and other former Soviet Union Countries much of the economy is cash based to avoid paying taxes. I suspect the same in the US - especially for services in the small business sector. Any data on the subject?
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      Not sure about the energy sector. I read once that 50% of the cigarettes sold in New York City are black market sales. States have huge pension funding problems and if they keep raising taxes to deal with it I would expect these black markets to grow. Locally we have "farmers markets" that I think are designed to avoid taxes and fees. As a retailer I hate having to compete against that.
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  • Posted by mia767ca 8 years, 2 months ago
    the price levels that oil has reached will cause major problems for the energy industry...major layoffs and bankruptcy here in the u.s....overseas it will mean civil turmoil in middle eastern countries and aggressiveness from russia...world conflict...

    ...and oil is expected to drop further...the market is dropping with it...we have broken key support levels and a 50% drop like 1932...2000...& 2007 are on horizon...
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  • Posted by krevello 8 years, 2 months ago
    It's the inevitable end of conflating politics, both on a national and a global scale, and market actions. The laws of capitalism, most importantly markets punishing foolish transactions, are disregarded because too many politicians are invested in a positive income which they've talked up.
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  • Posted by $ FredTheViking 8 years, 2 months ago
    A sudden free fall in the price of oil is cause for concern. It indicates weak demand for oil. It seems like things are heading to the point where you might be able to give oil away. Keep in mind, in the past falling oil price would lead to increase consumption and that's not happening and that's what is scary.
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  • Posted by term2 8 years, 2 months ago
    For years, government has tried to get americans to use LESS oil and gas. So now its here- cars get better mileage, homes are better insulated, and demand drops. At the same time, supplies increase through innovation. The government's response is to try to increase THEIR income through a $1 tax per gallon. I say they can go fu&& themselves.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      That's exactly right. I keep waiting for the "deficit reduction tax". Since we are all used to paying 3 or 4 bucks a gallon anyway what difference does it make. Remember the Obama appointee who was a college professor and recommended 7 dollar a gallon gas? The free market would determine the price and anything between that and 7 dollars would be the tax. What an idiot.
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  • Posted by $ Abaco 8 years, 2 months ago
    They shouldn't be too worried. I've had to study this a bit. Some people find negative in everything. The low oil prices are not a cause, but a result. They have resulted in a glut of production and drop in demand. The drop in demand, largely, is from a slowing economy. I could say a few things about how this could affect those seeking high-yield, fixed-income products....but I won't.
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    • Posted by term2 8 years, 2 months ago
      Over time, all of us have tried to reduce our usage of resources to cut costs. I drive a KIA Soul instead of my Chevy Avalanche. My work is only 4 miles away from where I live. I use about 50% of the A/C that I used to, and I bought a pellet stove to heat only the rooms I occupy in my house. In our business we are constantly trying to cut usage of materials and labor. My electric bill is lower cause of the use of non-incandescent lights- on and on. But I still spend what I did several years ago, due to the hidden inflation that Obama has foisted on us. But my use of resources in real terms has declined.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 8 years, 2 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Depends on the situation there are some very limited rules one is despite that stupid comment Clinton the first made about not pardoning himself they can't be used in impeachment cases. But that's if she's elected. I wouldn't be surprised at a deal ....she drops out they drop the charges. But that's only the charges they know about so far. The real purpose of the Clinton Foundation is future lawyers fees. They have no clout anymore no inside track. She is more of an embarrassment on her own than they tried to make Palin out to be. One thing Sarah knows the Constitution Wwotl is a stranger to the entire concept.
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 8 years, 2 months ago
    They are the sheep that have been wearing blinders, and only listening to the bleating of the other sheep around them, not to the howling of the wolves that's been going on in the distance for a loooong time now. When the down went over 10K... I knew the "correction" would be coming. They forgot the lesson of the 1920's and 30's... so they are repeating it.
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    • Posted by 8 years, 2 months ago
      Things could get very ugly. I just read an article that examined how accurate predictions on the S&P are. The conclusion was that analysts were no better than flipping a coin.
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      • Posted by $ Susanne 8 years, 2 months ago
        Most analytical tools are barely valid anymore - back when the bottom fell out of everything in 2008, I could see it coming, and on a gut reaction told my broker to "pull me out of this poker game". Came out OK - unlike a lot of folk. This one is charged to follow suit - you just have to know when to pull the trigger. And being blindfolded, with a hair trigger, and people around you yelling "Fire" at random... well...

        Part of the fun!
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