Merchandising or Murder
Here's how a lucrative business in the Middle East works: About once every six weeks in Asscrackastan, a soldier will pick up about a hundred kilograms of pure heroin, worth six hundred thousand dollars to the seller. Poppies grow like weeds and require less water than wheat. It's worth eight million dollars to the gangs in the USA and it is bought by the kilo and cut for sale. It's worth $40 million on the street. When you consider the stuff grows for free, that's a pretty damn good profit. Now here's my question: Should we be applauding all those ambitious business people or should we be condemning them? And if so, why?
regulating individual behavior is not the job of govt...and leads to what we are currently battling... just holding individuals responsible for their actions will do nicely...
Of course if it were legal it wouldn't be worth anything like 40 million dollars.
As for murder, does selling high calorie food count as murder as well?
What they found was that for the majority of illegal drugs (including heroin) the major negative repercussions of drug use per se were...nothing. Nothing at all. All of the 'negative repercussions' of the use of most drugs were due to the illegality of the drug and not to the use of the chemical itself.
Heroin was the example they used most frequently. Apparently, if you become addicted to heroin you have to keep using it for the rest of your live - kinda like oxygen. So you keep a container of it on the door of your refrigerator, next to the orange juice. Taking it no longer gets you high; you just need it in order to live. So it is not good but it does no damage.
Hepatitis, STDs, prostitution, crime...these are the results of the illegality of drugs, not of drugs themselves.
Consumers Report did make exceptions for PCP and for LSD (which would be illegal or restricted to constrained use), and they did define normal social limits of drug use as that which was evidenced by alcohol consumption - so if you were on a drug that induced change of consciousness, you could not drive.
My take away from reading the book was that the authors had their beliefs overturned by having been part of this study and that the drug bandwagon was yet another vehicle driven by Mr Social Hype.
Jan
Seems to me the case for prohibition is poor on grounds of pragmatism, when considering property rights and individual liberty the conclusion is a clear no.
But should there be compulsory labeling and warnings? I am not decided but tend to think otherwise.
Jan
I know many people who've struggled with drugs and/or booze. We all do. For the life of me, I've never figured out why people do that to themselves. It's like hitting your fingers with a hammer on purpose...
And for the same reason, our punitively high taxes on booze need to fall. On the other hand, there are workarounds. Carter made it legal to brew up to 200 gallons/year of your own beer or wine.
Adults should be allowed to sell or use any substance they want, so long as they tell the truth about what's in it.
No complaints
The metaprolyl and chlorthalidone regimen are one third the five years in the past price in the US.
from beer to fentanyl, are abused. . you can kill yourself
by drinking too much water and bursting your stomach.
those who think that these drugs should be legalized
have probably been studying the lottery. . about two-thirds
of the money spent on the lottery goes to the government
in taxes. . Colorado and Washington are raking in tax bucks
over marijuana legalization. . we might think that the
black market folks are just circumventing taxation,
which could be praised. -- j
.
other States ... they get the rain out there! -- j
.
If that heroin was used to create healthful value then...sure, we could applaud the effort; However, the outcome is not valuable to one's health nor well being and cost's not just the lives of individuals but it's a cost to society as well in the form of crimes, murder and the general physical, financial and productive health of society as a whole.
As to the ethical question, when you come right down to it, aren't the "criminals" just supplying a demand? The consequences are on the users for the most part, and if the drug commodity could be picked up at your local pharmacy, wouldn't that eliminate most of the criminality? If the main criteria was health, we'd have to close up all the McD's and similar enterprises as well. I think the onus is on the user and the government more than the supplier.
Even under the simplicity of Mark Hamilton's Prime Law, they would be guilty.
Note: I am no fan of the present system...I prefer suggestion, knowledge, ethics and morality over initiatory force.
I had 50 army duffle bags stuffed with jeans of any and all sizes. good will shipped most of them to my location where the ship was docked. No idea how much the rest of the crew had.We got one buyer and just off loaded the container onto a flat bed. Other times it was a trade for military accessories which in turn went to some surplus stores and so on. St. Petersburg once Vladivostok twice, mostly Odessa and Sevastopol. When that 'suitcase' style economy died out it was a chapter in history from serfdom to capitalism but it resulted in 100 plus billionaires and not much for the folks on the bottom of the heap. Tzar Serf relationship had survived even fed on the Communists and was still infecting the thinking.
As far as US customs was concerned don't volunteer anything. One idiot was asked about wood and volunteered he had some wooden cigar boxes. Cuban cigars bought in Dubai. All confiscated. the inspector looked at the guy as if to say "are you really that stupid?" But they are hard on hardwoods from vanishing species. The big deal was the dog searches. explosives weapons, drugs....Pass that it was home free time. In Israel the demand was Bench Made knives everyone asking about them. Ahh the salad days...My rule was if they let us pass it was legal.
In the 60's I spent six months on merchant ships before going Army....Skipper on that ship would buy motorcycles in Japan. lash them in the cross passageway with suddenly appearing US plates they disappeared in Seattle....our first port of call on the return runs. Back then stuff was cheap in Japan and especially in Hong Kong.
On those jeans? Why I barely broke even!
reads smoother.......
When I first got into the Gulch, I was somewhat of a nagger about it until I realized that I was becoming an annoyance. I applaud your perspicacity.
Some possesive forms use no apostrophe as the word itself makes it understood. It is theirs. Now you have a pendantic grammarian. I don't use post 1980 PC.
unknown quality
extreme costs - leads to economic ruin for the addictive population
violence
social stigma (vs. for instance, drinking a six-pack during the game, even if an alcoholic)
all amplified by the host of law enforcement activities
There is an interesting book,
"From Chocolate to Morphine" by Andrew Weil
that looks at the various drugs people use and what their real health effects are. Written in the early 1990's I think but updated since then.
Like I imagine almost all people here in The Gulch, I would leave it up to the individual
to decide what to consume (drink, smoke, eat, inject, watch, listen, feel) - and make them
completely responsible for their resulting actions.
Next time I want an answer I'll just go to google instead of the uninformed.
Colorado's Recreational Marijuana Prices are Falling ...
fortune.com/2015/06/22/marijuana-pric...
Jun 22, 2015 - The price for 1/8th of an ounce of recreational pot fell some 40% in ... After about 18 months of legal recreational marijuana sales in Colorado, the market keeps ... The Colorado Department of Revenue reported $4.39 million in taxes ... in a move meant to further squeeze out the state's black market for the ...
Colorado Cuts Marijuana Tax, Targets Black Market, While ...
www.forbes.com/.../colorado-cuts-mari......
Jun 10, 2015 - Colorado Cuts Marijuana Tax, Targets Black Market, While Oregon Eyes 20% Tax ... tax holiday on September 16, 2015, from the 10% state sales tax. Gov. ... into law, noting that this should lower the price of legal cannabis.
Taxing Marijuana: The Washington and Colorado Experience
taxfoundation.org/.../taxing-marijuan......
by J Henchman - Related articles
Aug 25, 2014 - Colorado collects tax revenue from marijuana sales through a 15 percent excise ... market rate; a 10 percent state tax on retail marijuana sales; a state sales tax of ... taxes; and local marijuana taxes such as a 3.5 percent tax in Denver. ... [14] By comparison, Washington taxes cigarettes at about 104 percent ...
Marijuana Costs In The US: How Black Market, Retail And ...
www.ibtimes.com/marijuana-costs-us-ho......
Jul 8, 2014 - A step above the black market stuff is medical cannabis, which is ... The price of street, medical and retail marijuana in Colorado and Washington. ... in 2012, the after-tax retail price for a gram of pot will be about $17, or $482 per ounce. .... Agustín Carstens said governments should plan for "a potentially ...
[PDF]market size and demand for marijuana in - Colorado.gov
https://www.colorado.gov/.../Market%2......
by MK Light - 2014 - Cited by 8 - Related articles
Mar 25, 2014 - vendors and individuals who represent the black market. ... Using the latest retail marijuana tax statistics from the Department of Revenue, we ... now use actual price and quantity data from the regulated market to compare the ... several state and local governments have either de-criminalized marijuana ...
Recreational pot: $53 million in tax revenue to Colorado
money.cnn.com/2015/02/12/news/.../col...
Feb 12, 2015 - But medical weed is taxed at a much lower rate -- just 2.9%, which makes it more appealing. ... It may not be a lot in comparison to the state GDP but I bet their happy to ... taxes (and low medical MJ prices) keep the black market thriving. ... Everything our government has told us about cannabis use is a lie.
[PDF]Marijuana Taxes, Pricing, and the Black Market
sam-vt.org/wp-content/.../12/MJ_Taxes...
A major argument for the legalization of marijuana has been tax income. High taxes can be ... Both Colorado and Washington have implemented marijuana taxes at state and local ... heavy use by adults, but high prices also encourage black market sales. Two ... the current gray market servicing minors. As a side effect, ...
This Is What Legalizing Marijuana Did to the Black Market in ...
reason.com/archives/2014/10/30/the-li...
Oct 30, 2014 - ... $60 for an eighth of an ounce after taxes, compared to something like $40 for ... "The black-market prices are definitely lower than recreational prices," says ... But patients are exempt from most of the taxes on marijuana, and ... thrive in parts of Colorado where local governments have banned pot stores.
Colorado Will Lower Marijuana Tax Rate | The Weed Blog
www.theweedblog.com/colorado-will-low...
Jun 8, 2015 - The price of legal recreational marijuana in a state will largely determine the extend of the effect on the marijuana black market in that state.
Price War Heats Up Between Legal Marijuana and the Black ...
time.com/money/2965578/marijuana-pric...
Jul 8, 2014 - Can legal marijuana compete on price with the black market? Colorado, which legalized recreational marijuana in January, is a the best ... started out selling marijuana for around $450 an ounce, including tax. ... Gauging how these prices compare to the black market is difficult: Street prices vary widely; ...
Hey out there you can say what you want and no facts or sources are required. Now nice nice....
The 18th and the 21st amendment...
Lessons lost?
Regards,
O.A.
Therefore I would not prohibit or regulate any drug someone wants to use, and I would not inform on a drug seller or maker, nor (on a jury) vote to convict one -- with some narrow exceptions. (1) If you're selling to juveniles, all bets are off. (2) Something like date rape drugs, where the end use is very likely to be non-consensual, should be controlled enough to at least make the stuff traceable if it happens.
The easy metaphor or is that meth-aphoric is remember the USA is a nation that truly treats it's dogs better than it's children and in some parts of the country a 12 year old is AKA next years new mommy. I don't think those 'hoods bother with drugging them first I believe it's peer pressure and parents who probably got there first. Well? Cannon Fodder production is important and so is a steady suipply of Baby Factories.
Many European countries have experimented with legalizing drugs, and most have reversed course due to the spread of disease from needle-sharing, and an exploding OD death rate. That should be indicator enough to tread carefully when considering an open drug market.
We're told that an open drug market would soon stabilize, and the number of addicted level off to a manageable percentage of the population. However, I point to the example of the tobacco industry, which kept its market growing with aggressive marketing, aimed at the youth. Do we honestly believe that in a competitive drug trade market, the same tactics won't be used on gullible young consumers?
Bottom line: I condemn the "ambitious business people" in the example, and would have not a problem seeing all swing from the nearest tree.
Have you noticed that there is no black market or underworld control of frying pans? The same principles apply. It is the demand for a product and its banning by the government that causes high prices, and criminal distribution. If a product is regulated by the government, you might notice how similar it is to the criminal operation. To reiterate: Keep government out of commodities. All commodities. The government is there to protect citizens from coercion by levying taxes and fees That is it. Stop making things illegal which, if anything, makes them more desirable.