Millennials and their work demands
I just want to shake these idiots (millennials). Do they understand that the typical cost of a new hire (including productivity costs, training costs, HR costs, etc.) is $10K even for a low-level position?
Further, I am not interested in someone working for me who tells me in the interview they are probably going to be gone in 1-2 years. They obviously do not understand that the very leadership roles they seek require insights into the company, its people, its competitors, its systems, and its customers - and those take years to acquire - not days.
I don't care how much you know about technology. I don't care how connected you are with your peers. I want to know what you are going to bring in the long term to my business that is going to justify me hiring you.
Further, I am not interested in someone working for me who tells me in the interview they are probably going to be gone in 1-2 years. They obviously do not understand that the very leadership roles they seek require insights into the company, its people, its competitors, its systems, and its customers - and those take years to acquire - not days.
I don't care how much you know about technology. I don't care how connected you are with your peers. I want to know what you are going to bring in the long term to my business that is going to justify me hiring you.
The fault lies with the generation that grew up in the Depression. That experience toughened them and prepared them for WW2. They defeated the biggest war machine in history, God bless them.
When they came home and settled down, they decided they didn't want their children to experience any sort of deprivation, and unwittingly created a generation of spoiled pansies.
That's where the rot set in.
Let me give you an example. When I was in college my career advisor told me not to take a $35,000/yr leadership development program position because I could do better. I did pass on the position (although looking back it was a very good opportunity that I probably should have taken) and actually didn't do better for about 3 years.
Add the lies colleges tell us to the lies our parents tell us (you're special, you can do anything, etc.) and you can start to see why we have some pretty bloated egos.
Then I made the kid go to the corner store and buy me a soda, cause knowledge isn't free.
Hey kid, if you ever read this, let me know how it worked out for you.
I once dated a math grad student in college, who went on to be a professor. Does that count?
I truly believed I deserved more that $35,000/year after college even though I had no real job experience. (I had worked at restaurants and retail stores in college but never like a 9-5 serious job).
I'm like an escapee from a cult. I've been de-programmed. Not everyone is so lucky.
I think you'll like this article: http://waitbutwhy.com/2013/09/why-gen...
By the way, I'm not trying to make excuses for millennials. We can't blame other people all our lives. We have to wake up and face reality. We have to make our own choice. I'm just trying to show you how we got to be the way we are.
These are serious manifestations of a totally failed social experiment that is going to cost us our culture, our country and even perhaps our very lives.
This is what the Hegelian model has given us. We abandoned Reading Writing and Arithmetic (and yes, civics) for the brainwashing technique used by Nazis Germany and Stalinist Russia. Now we have a large segment of our population who feels "entitled" and totally tune with the propaganda!
The Millennials are just a manifestation of this totally failed, "Progressive" educational system.
Lol.
Seriously, though, thank you for your insight. We're glad you escaped the asylum and are here with the rest of us in Reality ;)
That was a good read, especially the conclusion. The problem as I see it is not in that everyone considers themselves 'special', but that you have to ante up 'a lot of hard work' in order to merit the term.
It is the old saying, "You have to walk the walk and talk the talk." If you can just 'talk the talk' then you are not entitled to be termed 'special'.
Jan, 'special' (but sometimes meaning 'the short bus')
The truth is not everyone needs to go to college. I certainly didn't. In fact, I would trade my college degree in for student loan forgiveness in a heartbeat.
We need to push apprenticeship programs and internships.
However, business are part of the problem here as well. Many companies require a degree when it is entirely unnecessary.
Example: My grandfather was one of the early computer programmers at Cincinnati Bell. He taught himself how to program off of video tapes. He had no degree. Today, you need a masters degree to do the same job.
I appreciate the contributions of our resident millennial, awebb. We haven't done our offspring any favors by trying to protect their self-esteem, and they are downright delusional about how they think the real world is supposed to work.
However, in the dynamic IT world, companies have become downright predatory, sucking in the naive, chewing them up with slave labor hours, and spitting them out when they begin to get expensive. Is it any wonder, in a world with no corporate loyalty to the employee, that the employees don't feel obligated to the company?
This is actually the reason I left my last "corporate" job. I quit after 60 days.
Now, when we are around others, she falls down, she gets up, and the other parents are surprised she didn't cry or anything (even when she whacked her head hard enough it may have been warranted) and went right back to playing. I tell em it's no surprise, it's smart parenting. I teach my daughter that crying means you need help, so if you fall down, don't cry about it, get up. They give me strange looks, but all acknowledge that she is happy, has more fun playing and spends less time crying. I tell them they better learn now, or some day their child will work for mine... until she fires them for being a crybaby.
Warn her to have ALL her ducks in a row before firing any of those weasels, because as things are going now, it's likely those moochers will sue her under some "fairness" rule they'd invented.
:)
In practice all the agreement does is accelerate the timeline of bad policy. Such policy would eventually kill the company, and all the jobs, just like in AS. This agreement is a recognition of that fact, and cuts out the inefficiencies of a government killing a company. A free market optimization of the collapse, if you will.
:)
What I meant was that, odds are, some moron bureaucrat/congressmonkey/lobbyist will work to make such freely-entered-into-agreements Illegal.
If you are interviewing these millienials, simply ask them why they are planning to leave. Don't let it affect your decision to hire someone. You may lose on a few hire, you may also win on others when you steal away an employee that someone else sank $100k in to train. That's the calculated risks that manager have to take. It's just business. Never personal.
know that nobody is going to hire me for manage-
ment, and I wouldn't expect it.(But I'm not a millen-
ial). But I think maybe a company should not ex-
pect much loyalty, if it hires people from outside
for boss jobs, instead of promoting from within,
and letting people rise through the ranks.
A critical observation. In my experience, the companies which hire outside to fill leadership roles do so because they have such a short-term focus that they utterly fail in that critical area of employee management. Managers should be getting to know their subordinates: their personalities, their specialties, their institutional knowledge, their expanded knowledge, and their aptitudes. Then they should develop with those employees a plan for their future growth and development within the company. There are always going to be some who are content to stay where they are. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that and these people form the backbone of your company. There should also be a small contingent who are looking to move up the ranks: to challenge themselves and take on more responsibility. These should be identified as well and presented with a path - even if that path is likely to end up outside the company.
I agree that it is pretty hypocritical to expect loyalty and do nothing to deserve it. Loyalty is earned, not demanded.
At the second company I worked for (for 24 years) after some time I became part of the interviewing team and rejected one bright young candidate for a very simple reason: During the interview she said (didn't IMPLY, but SAID) that, "well, I've been in this position for x years (where x was <=5 or so) and it was time to move on."
I figured that the year or two she'd have taken to learn how to fit into our culture and understand our product lines, would be wasted investment on our part when that 'little bell in her head went off' and signaled her it was 'time to leave.'
Funny, but one of the guys we DID hire... very self-confident, polished, and member of a minority.... demanded a high starting salary and a Company Car for his 'zero-level management position." When management explained the we didn't give cars to anyone less than about 3rd level management, he tried to get the rule changed. I didn't get a chance to vote on him. I wish I had.
Such is "life in the Big City." Those kinds of experiences made me VERY happy when I got a "retirement package offer I couldn't refuse..."
Jan
There was a time in the past when many companies offered security for their employees. That is not true today. Most companies cannot afford to pay for that security.
The socialist, statist looters have destroyed the free market and along with it the middle class and jojb/retirement security.
Every vote for the GOP or the Dems is another step toward the abyss.
life the way that we were taught is that you had to earn your "perks" and that nothing was going to be handed to you. Now, with a school experiment that has been going on since 1963, we are seeing this "mistrust" that you and your Millennials are feeling. Unfortunately, you and millions of others almost the 1960's have been spoon fed the same line of malarky.
For all of the poor souls out there who have suffered this fate, I for one would consider suing the schools where I graduated (many times not really earned) for educational malpractice. Actually, we now have several generations, all raised and educated with this line of crap, that are now teaching the next generations.
This is one of the techniques used to bring this country to the sad state we are in today. Just look at the bozos in DC. For what its worth!
I (and I assume your parents) was lucky enough to witness firsthand the roll out of the massive changes to our national education system where it switched from reading, writing, arithmetic and yes, civics to the Hegelian model of indoctrination and propaganda.
Keep in mind, Dewey (of Dewey decimal system fame) was the original progenitor of national education system and he, was a Fabian Socialist (the happy face of Marxism). Going basically from the former to the latter, created what became the real backbone of your educational underpinnings (I.e., Arbor day, and all of the rest of the Liberal/Progressive propaganda - circa 1970's and forward).
It was during this time that Whole Language and Whole Math because included. Outcome Based Education (OBE) and ultimately everything else was incrementally added so that now students are taught; 1) they are special, 2) they are entitled, 3) they now respond to Group Think such as Global Warming, later to become known as Climate Change because the models and contrived protocols these the "so-called" scientists were using were cherry picked and did not support the mantra with good science.
However, through the efforts of the brainwashing that has been going on for several generations now, we are raising numbers of "disconnected", borderline sociopaths. It has been subtle but relentless. BTW, that last statement about sociopaths came from a VP of a large school district in one of the "bluest of blue states".
I do not mean to denigrate the individuals of these post Dewey generation because they have been subjected to some of the most sophisticated brain-washing and indoctrination that this world has ever seen. A perfect example of the Sociopath who feels entitled and acts that way is President Obama. Take a look at him, his administration and the way he deals with adversity and how he works with people.
I rest my case. BTW keep up with the Critical Thinking a continue to resist what is going on. I'm pulling for you and your generation!
You mention trust as if it was something you feel should be there but isn't. Any thoughts on that?
What is the rug that is pulled out from under you.
Jan
Why should I stay at a job when I saw millions of Americans lose the jobs at companies they had been at for decades? Only to find themselves unable to return to the job market years later on the government dole.
Also why should I care about your companies long term interests? Given that just about any company could drop me like a bad habit with just seconds notice.
If you want to hire me, you need to make it advantageous for me to stay. The work needs to be challenging and I need to gathering some new job skills to stay relevant in the job market. If the job fails to challenge me then I will move on.
How can you expect loyalty when it so poorly rewarded these days? It may be different at your company but overall companies have made it clear through their actions they don't value loyalty. Given that, no one hardly complain when the new generation comes around into the labor market and they have no loyalty to offer.
I just want to point out it is a two way street and Millienials behavior is completely reasonable considering recent history of the labor market.
I don't disagree with you that both employer AND employee should benefit from the employee's work. Value for value. Are there companies that don't understand how to manage employees? Lots of them, unfortunately. Two of my brothers and a brother-in-law all worked for the same company where the three co-owners of an investment banking place raked in millions, but when each of my relatives in turn asked for a raise from ~$50K up (managing hundreds of millions of customer funds nonetheless), they were unceremoniously shown the door right there. And those companies were not only throwing money out the door (a typical training cycle in their business was a full year before profitability) but they were losing highly-motivated, highly-educated, ethical employees (all three had Masters' degrees).
What I would also point out, however, is that many of these millennials are missing that passion and drive to learn new skills, take on new challenges, and spend the time necessary to develop themselves into the leaders they picture themselves as. They think that it will come with no effort on their parts. And I've seen it and dealt with it up front and enough to know that it isn't an isolated phenomenon. I don't have any problem with someone wanting to prove their value. I do have a problem with people who assume a value they haven't proven.
As an employer there's just nothing good about that.
Either they are difficult to get along with, incompetent, or (to give them the maximum benefit of doubt) they are going to take what they want and leave.
Even if they have a skill I desperately need - what good will they do me a year from know when they get the wander lust.
Screw 'em. There's plenty more where they came from.
They'll see how that's workin' out for them when they get closer to 40.
They do not get the financial cushion needed to do business within business cycles, not to mention the continuing costs of innovation and competition.
If it wasn't for all these things...there wouldn't be jobs in the first place and it is clear, no matter how one observes reality...mankind Needs to be productive otherwise there is no point in living.
I am not a millennial, but have experienced being an exception to your rule 'not to say that you expect to stay only a year' at a particular job. As a Medical Technologist who liked to work graveyard shift, I was quite upfront with my prospective employers about my plans, and I do not think my saying as much ever impeded my getting a job...but then you are talking about a niche where I can get 3 days - 1 week familiarization and then begin working independently.
That being said, Schuyler House has contrived a hideous plan to lure unsuspecting millennials into staying with us: We are nice. We have a casual atmosphere. If you have a dog (or social cat) you are kinda expected to bring it to work. And - importantly - we realize that people have other things in their life that are of great value to them, and we not only cooperate with working with these other things, we actually encourage them. (Currently, for example, several of us are working together on an Indie film in progress...not ready to say more at the moment.) The company takes us all out to movies a few times a year; the Missouri office has barbecues too.
Our pay is not great, and while we do get people moving out and up to better jobs, we have had a pretty good retention of some brilliant people. In an era where corporations are trying to drop their employee health coverage, we have just arranged to get our people the premier policy offered by a particular insurance company...because we want to be sure that our people have absolutely no problems in getting their health care. In more than one way, this is a 'lifestyle' company.
Jan
I also don't want to imply that I don't support the notion of wage competition: I absolutely support the idea of employees seeking to better their station and that the result of that in the market is better wage equilibrium. That being said, however, I also point out that much of wage inflation is driven not by actual production, but by government-induced inflation.
There is also one more difference between you and many of these millennials: you actually are cognizant of the actual value of your work. That to me is the biggest missing factor in what I deal with in Millennials.
Why do I consider a manual-laboring job to be
the "sweet spot" in my career? What kind of ques-
tion is that? Did I say anything about its being
"sweet"? I am unemployed, I want and need a job, and I am trying to get the job I think I might
be able to get. I have had "education" for what
it is worth (zero), and that's not helping me. I
skipped 2nd-year French in high school, went
into the 3rd year, and made straight A's in it.
No employer in the United States (so far as I
know) gives a s--t about that. (I have picked up
a few other languages, too--also deaf-mute sign
language, but no employer wants that). I have
taken numerous tech courses. I went to a busi-
ness school which closed down after a few
months, later I passed a Basic Machine Shop
course, later a Naval Radioman course (though
I was later honorably discharged from the Re-
serve for epilepsy), later I passed a keypunch
course, and, most recently, it was a computer
course (years 2001--2002). I got a 2.0 GPA;
both computer lab managers told me the ma-
chines had been programmed not to go with the
book. Probably it was the wrong book; a sec-
ond-hand book I got from a fellow student. I
couldn't afford a new one.
Such education does me no good at all in
the job market; but it has taught me not to waste
money on going to school. It seems that at ev-
ery job fair (I despise job fairs,they are so worth-
less), but nearly every time, it seems that there
is some crook trying to push his school, but I
can't afford it; I'm not going to fall for that again.
But I have had long years in the workforce; was
almost never out of work, and then not for long,
up until about a year ago. I have had consider-
able experience in plants of different sorts, and
also food service. So that is why I am trying to
get a manual-laboring job, because I think it is
the kind of job I would have the best chance to
get. I'm not a millenial, sitting in my parents'
home, lazily trying to pick and choose whatever
happens to suit me best. I hope that answers
your question.
Like in a line from the song Sweet Home Alabama, "Does your conscience bother you?"
Nope.
Would I tell a job interviewer that I may just do so mean a thing?
That would be stupid.
Anyhoo, my last job with yet someone else was semi-retired.
Now I'm fully retired. Hopefully, I will stay that way.
That last job and the full time I jumped ship from told me I could come back whenever I wanted to, but now I have old dino aches and pains.and I'm really tired of answering to anybody who may ring my home phone out of the blue or my cell at the last minute.
is it any wonder why companies are stagnating because they do not keep people even though they may pay a very good wage.
i noted that my neice now 32 i believe would get a job and 6 months later she knew all there was to know about the business so it was time to leave. she is very fortunate that her parents are well off and have a big house so she and her boy friend and their son have a place to live.
the parents in these situations have failed to educate the child to the ways of the world, our world. so it is the parents who i put some blame too. hell if the president of the usa and the congress don't take responsibility why should the population.
Easy answer. Sorry x+y=zero Have you considered getting an education and....not worrying about safe spots?
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