Interesting. I was introduced to him as a psychiatrist by one of the "inner circle" people. This was back in about 1963 or 1964.

Mammalian species do indeed demonstrated consciousness, some on a remarkable level, and, of course, they are capable of many feats we could not match, including feats of consciousness. But then, so are bird species...and fish...

Yes, I wavered over the spelling of Allan's first name. And you are right; I think this may be the Canadian spelling. He was an M.D., certainly, but not a psychiatrist; he did not take that advanced training and get board certified in it. In fact, I asked him once and he laughed and said his post-M.D. studies were in public health, of all things. He did take many advanced courses, which doctors in NY are expected to do to keep current. I recall he was taking one course at Columbia University school of medicine on human sexuality and talked with some excitement about it.

THANKS for the many insightful, intelligent comments on my article for "Savvy Street." Interesting that the discussion seemed to turn to whether or not humans are "superior" to other species, or are the only species with free well, and evidence that perhaps other species "make choices." I say "interesting" because I had not thought of the article as about that, but more about the remarkable conviction of scientists that some day, however long it takes, we will have discovered on the most fundamental level the physical basis for all aspects or acts of consciousness. A few asserted that the claim that consciousness is irreducible to any physical process, even if those processes give rise to consciousness, is "unproven," "undemonstrated," just a belief. As I understand her, Ayn Rand said that existence and consciousness are self-evident, axiomatic, and so not needing and capable of "proof." Any attempt to argue against their existence, their reality, would have to assume them. Consciousness is awareness of existence, as she said, and such awareness is a fundamental, not reducible to anything else.Harry Binswanger wrote an interesting thesis arguing that there must be some "spirit" entity that has an existence apart from the brain... There is a very, very persuasive case for this. That does not give us "God," of course, or anything like it.

Some seemed to argue here that other species, like dogs, do have choice. Of course dogs have choice; when I call to Fido to come and my wife calls to Fido at the same time, Fido can't respond to both. But he doesn't free in place. He makes a choice. The point at issue is whether or not this choice is undetermined, genuinely "free," and there is no reason to believe that it is. In any case, the only evidence we can obtain about such matters, as of now, comes from introspection reported in language and, for that, humans are the only game in town. Thanks again for all the comments, friends. I would like to respond in more detail, but duty calls. Thanks very much for following "Savvy Street." By now, I have published some 50 articles, there.

The Fight for Conscious Human Life
authorhouse.com or any other site.

This was a down and dirty discussion of how this upside down paradigm has effected everything and how it perhaps got that way.
You might like to check out "Spiral Dynamics"- quite a few written on this subject. (levels of awareness)

Working on the next book, will be very comprehensive and will be published Mainstream.

That is one of the endearing characteristics of dogs. They form attachments to their owners. When I was in the hospital for 4 days, my wife said my beagle moped around like she was sick until I got home. I don't think, that qualifies as free will. Good story, however.

Welsh chieftain, Llewellen, returned from a hunt. He was met by his dog covered in blood. Fearing that the dog had killed his young son instead of guarding, Llewellen killed it. Going into the compound he found the young boy alive, well, and crying A big wolf nearby was dead, there were signs of a fierce fight.

I agree with a number of writers the there are a number of mammalian species that that show signicant levels of consciousness. I have two mixed breed dogs. Their mother was a Pit Bull. We got them from an local rescue group.The male is black and whiite the oddest thing when he was a puppy that he had an enormous head compared to his body.We also adopted the female littermate which had a proportional body and head. (We still have both). I decided to train the male to develope his own vocal way to let me know when he wants to go out or a treat. But also he will come an get me to show me something he is not familiar with inside the house. Unfortunately the female has a very limited vocal ability but her is funny to listen to.
The male has multicolored irises and pigmentations on the corneas of his eyes. When you look into his eyes you get the the most disconcerting feeling that there are thoughts pervading his mind.

Yes I have. And welcome to the Gulch.
My first book is based on Julian's observations and it answered for me the behavior of our old testament ancestors.
Physiologist mainly try to relegate Consciousness to the brain...it has little to do with the brain and it might seem to be a quantum result of the vibratory frequencies our brains are noted for that creates the mind. (kinda like the "cloud") The connection from the brain (survival) to the Mind,(true integrated wisdom) might very well be the Subconscious.
One can see this in society, those with a conscience and those without. It very well might be the only true division in society. Humanoid verses a Conscious Human Being, emphasis on the "Being".
I don't think I'd get much of an argument when I say that Government (Kakistocracy), is mostly Humanoid at the upper levels.

What you may find interesting about how wrong our suppositions can be about another species' language is (again) the corvids. We had assumed that their communication consisted primarily about food, mating, and warnings. Those assumptions have been proven seriously in error, as crows demonstrate ceremony, holding funerals over dead relatives. They also have shown more complex abilities to communicate, noting acts of kindness to a crow by a human, and passing that information not just among their family flock, but across a significant region.

Awww...sweet. You just did.

Jan, 10 pointer now!

Great comment, Jan. Wish I could give you ten points.

With all the millions of dogs around, could these be exceptions that proves the rule? In any case, does it really matter? What does it mean if species other than Man has some form of volition. Rand would argue that it is instinct, but the reality is, without free will, there could be no naked ape accomplishing all that it has.

The use of language is driven heavily by our experience and our environment. It is said that the Eskimo has over 60 words for snow and ice and the Arab has a similar extensive vocabulary for sand. A friend, a cetacean biologist, thinks that the language of whales and dolphins is actually a shorthand version of their imaging sonar capability where they communicate with pictures rather than words. What we call intelligence can take many forms most of which we understand very dimly. I worked as an astronomer for many years and spent some time on the SETI project. I am consistently amused by the notion that communication with an alien extraterrestrial intelligence may occur soon. I think the difficulty of the problem is substantially underrated.

There was also the well-publicized mother cat who went repeatedly into a burning building to bring out her kittens, in spite of life-threatening burns. She survived, was treated, and given a good home. Not to belittle human courage, but we have good company in the family of other creatures that inhabit the planet, so once again the attempt to make distinction falls flat.

I have never been tempted by religion and consider most of it as mystical claptrap. But when it comes to consciousness, I must agree that there is something that fits into the realm of the spiritual, which may be just another way of saying, the "unknown." Just as quantum physics would seem to be unscientific nonsense to a 19th century scientist, I think when what consciousness is, is revealed it will turn science on its ear just as Einstein did.

There are numerous examples of dogs going into danger for people, specifically burning buildings. A quick google search gets several hits such as "After escaping the blaze in the 5100 block of West Grace Street, Bambi ran back inside to find 69-year-old Peter Domaradzki, the Tribune reported. Both had to be rescued by firefighters."

There was also a heavily repeated video of a dog going into freeway traffic to pull another dog who had been struck out of traffic.

I don't care how much volition differentiates man from other creatures so much as what he does with it. Many animals can make choices, as you point out, but man can actually choose to go against his survival instincts which I don't think is found in any other species. Example: Going back into a burning building after having escaped in order to rescue a child. This, I believe is the major quality which is the very definition of man, "A creature of volitional consciousness."

I agree. We are trying for psychological geocentricity again: We want ourselves at the center of the universe.

The real answer is that we do not need to be cosmically important in order to have value.

Jan

Greetings all, this is my first post.
To the subject at hand: Has anyone here read Julian Jaynes's "Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"? I think the "focus" and "introspection" mentioned is addressed by his definition of consciousness. He also shows how learning and decisions are possible without being conscious of them, and does account for the differences between us and other animals.

When you come right down to it, the "breakthrough" doesn't tell much that wasn't already thought about and acted on. It is hard to discern whether creatures other than man have volition, because in their own way, their sensory input is so different. Take a dog, for example. To my beagle the world revolves around smell. Her eyes are good for attention but not much detail But odor, ah odor is to her as Technicolor is to us. As homo sapiens we cannot begin to comprehend what the world is like to her. Take a frog, for example. It's paradise is a pond filled with algae half of which is rotting and swarming with flies. Can we comprehend what the mind of a frog is? Volition is the key to the existence of man. Without it, his big brain is no better than that of an elephant whose brain is even bigger than man's. As to consciousness, I suspect that when science unravels the mystery, it will be as revolutionary as Einstein's changing of the entire thinking about the universe and how it works. It is still unknowns within unknowns. I don't want to get all mystical on you, but science is becoming wilder than was ever imagined just a few short years ago.