The Star of Wonder: Arguments over the Christmas Star

Posted by $ MikeMarotta 9 years, 11 months ago to Culture
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In science, a good problem takes us far beyond the results of a single observation. The Christmas Star has been debated on many levels. The International Planetarium Society website (ww.ips-planetarium.org) lists over 100 citations to the Star of Bethlehem. Some of those articles and letters were part of a multifaceted decades-long argument among at least five astronomers and one editor. Writing in Archaeology Vol. 51, No. 6 (Nov/Dec 1998), Anthony F. Aveni cited 250 “major scholarly articles” about the Star of Bethlehem.
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Agreed, it brings in viewers. Allow me to suggest that Colorado is among several states that have liberalized laws regarding marijuana. How would you react to a Colorado planetarium that handed out marijuana cigarettes? It would surely bring in the crowds. They definitely would enjoy the show. But would that be advancing science?

Full article here:
http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The Christmas Tree itself comes from the same source as your last paragaph. It's easier to gain converts when you redefine their current and comfortable to them beliefs into something a bit different. It worked for the Democrats converting the Republicans as a a secular example.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    As an atheist, I agree (mostly). Not all of these people are idiots. Perhaps the best popular book on astronomy for amateurs is Turn Left at Orion by Guy Consolmagno, a Jesuit and Vatican astronomer. In another work, Dr. - Ph.D. in planetetary astronomy before he joined the Church - Consolmagno says that to call God the "creator of the universe" is to reduce him to a primitive fertility deity. Consolmagno has a more "metaphysical" view, one shared perhaps even by Dawkins and Sagan in side comments of their own on the "undiscovered countries" of physics.

    As I cited in the topic article here, at least one professional astronomer erred in keeping to the December 25 date. However, of the dozen or so papers that I actually read of the 350 written by professional astronomers, they had the basics down pretty good.

    You can get lost in the weeds with this. One article I read said that the Saturnalia was actually December 17, but was moved about 250 CE to segue with the feast of Sol Invictus on December 25.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    You are over-thinking it; and it is still a bit harder than that. You can buy the software, and get it free. When I worked with a fellow grad student (he was in physics for real; I was just taking a class) writing an article for the British Society for the History of Astronomy, we tried four: Starry Night, Stellarium, Night Sky and My Stars. Testing them against the book we reviewed, we found that they did not all agree. The author used some of those and some others, but never cited them in the book. (We exchanged emails.) We also relied on eclipse websites from NASA and similar.

    "We also looked to a NASA database (http://eclipse.gsfc.nasa.gov) that provides tables of total, partial, and annular solar eclipses. We found events revealed by software, cited in this book, but not listed by the space agency. For the eclipse of 1135, NASA offers three possibilities: an annular (Jan. 16) visible from Mongolia, a total (Jul 12) to be appreciated from Tierra del Fuego, and a partial (Dec. 6) seen to anyone in the Antarctic sea north of Queen Maud Land. (Henry died on Dec. 1.) If we take the medieval scribes at their word, then, not even NASA can run the celestial clock back reliably." -- Bradford S. Wade and Michael E. Marotta, “Review of Astronomical Symbols on Ancient and Medieval Coins,” Bulletin of the Society for the History of Astronomy, Issue 21, Spring 2011.
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  • Posted by $ 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Yes, of course. It would be best to run the show at any time except the Christmas season. And it could be tied to a broader theme. I published an academic article with a physics grad student I met, reviewing Astronomical Symbols on Ancient and Medieval Coins by Dr. Marshall Faintich. When I gave this talk to my local coin club and to the university astronomy club, I cited other examples. Flags are the easiest. Stars, moons, and suns are common. Alaska has the Big Dipper.

    So The Star of Bethlehem could be a valid example within that context.

    (A shorter review of the Faintich book is on my blog here: http://necessaryfacts.blogspot.com/20...
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Bingo they can. but first they have to agree on a location, a date, a tune and if possible a direction of travel...more properly as we rotate to the east what appears to be a direction of travel then they reverse navigate or astrogate the universe as a whole to what was there back when. If you have down trigonometry and spherical trigonometry think of it as applied to moving objects and systems..Takes a lot of computer power though. Order of magnitude and distance would also help. I assume the argument is about competing conclusions or methods or it's religious in nature. I didn't read it .

    However if you apply some know methods ...for example think of the solar system a sphere in which a given number of objects generally rotate around the sun. The outside of that sphere is it's surface. Plot where earth would have been at that time and date and what the view would have been for a bright star that nightly guided the three wise dudes. That sphere of space rotates around a given point in the Galaxy. Do the same for the Galaxy.. Now you have a really good projection show for one of those hemisphere theaters. Everything turning around a center point and the whole thing turning around another center point and all of it around a final center point with some odd ball stuff shooting around although chaotic or not it eventually will form some sort of pattern...

    Now in navigation we used to use sextants and take a series of sightings and convert them to lines on a chart which crossed each other.. GPS is a lot easier. The same technique can be used to find positions in the solar systems sphere or the Milky Ways sphere. The two fixed points are the assumed center of the universe and an axle like or axis line running through the center of the sphere. Here we use the North Star Polaris and and interpolated southern celestial point based on the southern cross. that axis can be duplicated thrugh the sun for the solar system or the milk way galaxy or presumably for the universe but that's what we used with a lot angle and declination measurements to find a fixed point.. Enough of that.

    Technology and a lot of star watching and measuring by the observatories and computers can figure out a lot of how planetary, galaxy and so forth systems move and the put them in forward gear or reverse gear to see what might happen or what has happened...in theory. We are at that age of starting to use astrogation which eventually will guide manned or droned space craft....

    Or figure out perhaps what star might have been in a certain neighborhood for a date/time corrected event. Simple but it's sort of beyond rocket science so gentleman and ladies start your correcting engines....I have reached my limits and touched thstars. at least .on the surface of a sphere called Terra. or earth...

    And that's how it is being done. Barring knock down drag outs in the world of astrophyisics and astronomy. .
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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 9 years, 10 months ago
    The article makes me think there ought to be a way planetariums could go over various celestial events observable by the naked eye during that time and how any of them could possible have played a role in Christian mythology. Would that pass the Lemon Test?
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 10 months ago
    I gave it back. That's just the Pelosi Platoon.

    Question what was the argument about and what is the outcome - if any?

    Corallary I think. The Millennium bunch who screwed and celebrated a year early are of the same mentality level. Worse they got the hour and and time wrong.. CE and BCE i think were the PC intiials - but then PC are really common and unimaginative. Universal Time is a bit over the top arrogant...we aren't the center of the universe. Greenwich Mean Time had a reason to exist based in science as did to some extent BC and AD which was slightly incorrect history.

    To be accurate the line is drawn through Bethleham in Israel and the dates are adjusted to account for Gregorian and Julian calander changes.

    Then for Millennium purposes add one year since the celebration was on the end of the 999th year and to be more accurate put PM and AM where they belong even though they are in terms of telling time of zero value except to denote, something like a speed sign or a Burma Shave sign before noon and after noon.

    So arguing about the Christmas Star is probably nothing of value except to get someone their 2 seconds of undeserved infamy as those who don't deserve fame are commonly termed..

    The one's who think it important could have, at the very least, got it right. But like the PC crowd probably couldn't be bothered to open the astronomers dictionary.
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