John, I agree with you that a life is a life, even at conception. Do you remember that Pope John Paul II was against all forms of assisted reproduction? The situation that you describe above was but one of his many reasons. I read what he said about it, and he had clearly predicted many of these moral quandaries. I don't agree with him, by the way. But my point is that once you have the ability to create these embryos outside the womb, these situations will arise. I feel very strongly that this woman does not have the right to force this man to become a father. In my opinion she should be held to the document she signed. She could have chosen to freeze her unfertilized eggs, and she would have preserved her "right" to procreate. You could argue that disposing of these frozen embryos will be murder, and I will probably agree with you, but I will still argue that doing it is the right thing.
Question, not agreeing or disagreeing, but since there is not a way at least that I am aware of to have a child outside the womb, would it not be a requirement that the embryo be accepted into the womb before it could be considered a life. My point is that there is no guarantee that it would be accepted, is there? I am being sincere in these questions. One can argue life at conception or life at the point a baby can survive outside the womb, but can it survive without being in a womb?
Or I'll ask another question. If someone bombed a building that held embryos could they be charged with murder?? I don't know that answer.
Good questions, Ed. The fact is that science has outstripped the law. What you are referring to is the "potential vs, viability" question. I believe that the potential for life is life. You see, I believe that abortion should be legal and a woman's choice, but I believe it is the murder of a life. I think that murder is sometimes the right thing to do, but that doesn't change the fact that it is the ending of a life. I think sometimes people say that an early pregnancy isn't viable so that they can feel better about abortion. What not face what abortion is? This is just my opinion.
hey, Ed ... life and viability are separate things, to me. I wasn't really viable until I had some work experience and could provide for myself. . some days, I wonder, in retirement, am I still viable? ....... -- j .
I am also being sincere, and I believe that the life of the embryo is the predecessor of the life of the child, and the adult who can support him/herself follows. . bombing such a building should probably be "manslaughter." -- j .
if I were this woman, I would fight to the death to keep my kids -- or their potential -- alive. . I despise this judge for failing to see that these are life forms which should be protected. . I wish that I had had embryos. -- j .
I understand where you are coming from so not trying to start an argument but what about the signed contract? Neither party had to sign and then there would not be an issue. How could the judge do anything else? I can't see a way or it would make all contracts questionable, wouldn't it?
I contend that life trumps the contract. . if the contract denies reality, it should be voided. . and I got an A in business law, as part of my MBA; contracts are wonderful things. -- j .
sure. . if I swing my hand toward a table and it hits, it hurts. that's reality. if you and I make a contract which says "When I decide to terminate your life, we will agree that it's not murder," and I decide to kill you, well -- it's still murder. -- j .
So under your meaning, shouldn't they both go to prison for taking out a contract to kill? I mean they both signed an agreement and if I understand the law correctly, if someone contracts to kill someone it is a crime even if the act never happens. And most are not dumb enough to sign the papers. Just saying.
Certainly, the judge is implying this is a potential and not an actual life. Here's why.
If it was a child and the contract said that the child would be destroyed in the event of a divorce, we would deem the contract null and void. The life of the child is incontrovertibly his own, though the parent may dictate much of the child's proper action to a certain age.
yes. . the tricky part, besides life-at-conception, is the total dependence of human kids, for years. . they must hope that adults will sustain them, else, well ....... -- j .
But my point is that once you have the ability to create these embryos outside the womb, these situations will arise. I feel very strongly that this woman does not have the right to force this man to become a father. In my opinion she should be held to the document she signed. She could have chosen to freeze her unfertilized eggs, and she would have preserved her "right" to procreate.
You could argue that disposing of these frozen embryos will be murder, and I will probably agree with you, but I will still argue that doing it is the right thing.
Or I'll ask another question. If someone bombed a building that held embryos could they be charged with murder?? I don't know that answer.
I wasn't really viable until I had some work experience
and could provide for myself. . some days, I wonder,
in retirement, am I still viable? ....... -- j
.
.
right back at'cha, Emma!!! -- j
.
who Do Not Give Up. . Dagny and Hank were great role models. -- j
.
is the predecessor of the life of the child, and the adult who can
support him/herself follows. . bombing such a building
should probably be "manslaughter." -- j
.
.
my kids -- or their potential -- alive. . I despise this judge
for failing to see that these are life forms which should be
protected. . I wish that I had had embryos. -- j
.
denies reality, it should be voided. . and I got an A
in business law, as part of my MBA; contracts are
wonderful things. -- j
.
that's reality.
if you and I make a contract which says "When I decide to
terminate your life, we will agree that it's not murder,"
and I decide to kill you, well -- it's still murder. -- j
.
reverse her contractual decision, which might ameliorate
her position. -- j
.
While it may make the position better, maybe she should do less jail time than the father?? Again just saying. :)
in order to protect my progeny. . but that's me. . twisted logic;;;
I know. -- j
.
.
.
Certainly, the judge is implying this is a potential and not an actual life. Here's why.
If it was a child and the contract said that the child would be destroyed in the event of a divorce, we would deem the contract null and void. The life of the child is incontrovertibly his own, though the parent may dictate much of the child's proper action to a certain age.
total dependence of human kids, for years. . they must
hope that adults will sustain them, else, well ....... -- j
.