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How far down are we?

Posted by Herb7734 9 years, 7 months ago to Philosophy
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How far down the wrong side of the bell-curve is the USA? Can the country turn itself around, and if so, how? Or, is the USA heading for an unrecoverable demise?


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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I do think so I've been watching it since the 1960's. I see no evidence Toynbee is correct and reality is wrong.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Whee you going to find enough good men? Certainly not amongst those hand selected by the left to run for office.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I'm betting my life on it. I've said enough to become a target for sure. So be it if it helps and does not fall on deaf ears.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Of course. That's while the US style of socialism won out ....so far. They keep the go along get alongs fat, dumb, and happy.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ergo Sum Flat Tax is not better it's starting over on the same path to destruction while never gaining control back to the citizens.
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  • Posted by Kittyhawk 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The system is hugely flawed, and I've racked my brain for decades for a solution to fix it. One flaw is that the majority have their rights respected on a given issue, and the minority do not. And that's making the huge assumptions that the government officials in charge of counting votes are honest, and that politicians will actually follow the will of the people -- neither of which I think are true in fact.

    At this point, I think the only solution is to convert government from a monopoly to a voluntarily-funded service provider.
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  • Posted by Kittyhawk 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ayn Rand came to the same conclusion which modern anarchists have: she believed that a voluntarily-funded protection (police) and dispute-resolution (courts) system could function better than what we have now to protect our rights. Removing mandatory payment (taxation) is the only thing that can make government accountable. If you think you know better than Rand... well, okay.

    If you are truly interested in how an anarchist society could function, and exceed the current force-based system in effectiveness, while reducing the cost, there are tons of material available online and in books. https://markstoval.wordpress.com/2012... That article makes a great point: we don't all have cops following us and "protecting" us every day. The vast majority of our daily interactions with friends and strangers are currently ruled by anarchy and the non-aggression principle. Bad people will occasionally hurt good people under anarchy, just as they do under the current system, but I would argue that, first, most people are good and peaceful and want to get along and, second, that protection from bad behavior and consequences given for it would be fairer and more swift and sure if these services were delivered by a non-monopolistic business.

    By the way, if you think police today exist to protect and serve the public, please consider the case of Joe Lozito, who was attacked and repeatedly stabbed while two officers watched from behind a locked door. The courts decreed yet again that police have NO duty whatsoever to protect or serve citizens. http://www.copblock.org/27067/police-...

    We currently give an average of 50% of our wealth to the various governments. Are you arguing that we're all getting our money's worth? Because I'm sure not. What other service or good would you want to buy from a monopoly? Cell phone service? Cable t.v.? Groceries? A car? If you wouldn't want to buy these things from a monopoly, why not? Maybe because they have no accountability, because they can give you a poor-quality good or service and you have no other option, and because they can raise the price any time they want because they're the only game in town? The arguments against monopolies seem so clear, so how do you get to the conclusion that a monopoly on protection and dispute resolution services held by the government is somehow uniquely favorable to the citizens?

    Between public schooling and the media and entertainment industries, we're all immersed in a social and political system whose only goal is to protect itself. We're taught to worship government, view it as a protector and have faith in it. If we stop and think logically about the reality of the system though, I think we'll all agree that we can do much better.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    I don't think so. Toynbee came up with the idea you put forth around 100 years ago. If anyone is behind.....
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Seems to happen that way though especially when it's the cycle or circle of repression being run by a government rather than revolutionary forces. 'sorry you are thirty or fourty years behind the times.
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  • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    The rock still hurts and my car will still lay rubber i three and get nasty chirp out of fourth instead of sayhing Huh? Huh? Huh?
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Ah, clarification.
    Sometimes it's the only game in town. Even if the game is fixed you can't win if you don't play.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Those who don't believe in volition are people who do not understand the nature of man. As a result, they come up with premises that can never be achieved, laws that cannot be followed and every constriction imaginable of freedom.
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  • Posted by 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    So...you are an advocate of the cyclical theory of history? If so, you surely are aware that the completion of a cycle does not necessarily mean the next cycle is upward from the previous.
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  • Posted by $ pixelate 9 years, 7 months ago
    We are heading over a cliff ... I have some thoughts regarding true progress (invention, innovation, freedom, growth, etc) as they are measured mathematically and expressed in terms of displacement, velocity and acceleration. Essentially, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better, and the fall will require decades more. Rebirth will only occur after the establishment of open dictatorship in this country and that period is likely to extend into decades. Get your individual houses in order, eliminate debt, secure your network of friends and allies. The next 30 years are going to play out in devastating individual and social transformation.
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  • Posted by AvatarKnight191 9 years, 7 months ago in reply to this comment.
    Agreed---we also need to elect those that will have the best interests of the people-at-heart & are BULLETPROOF to being bought off by lobbyists/special interest groups; this also causes corruption to flourish unchecked.
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  • Posted by AvatarKnight191 9 years, 7 months ago
    As a famous saying goes: "The situation MAY look DESPERATE...but nowhere near HOPELESS". While it looks like our country is nearing the brink of economic collapse at the hands of evil, scheming MADMEN, this GRAND NATION can pull itself back from the edge & we have the means to do it; Edmund Burke stated: "The Only Necessary Thing For Evil To Flourish---Is For Good Men To Do Nothing"---if we do nothing to stop it, we're just as guilty as the ones who are causing it & we deserve what we get! I understand that the prevailing thought, is that REALISTICALLY....nobody's willing to truly sacrifice & stick their neck out to initiate the CHANGE necessary to have the type of country that ACTUALLY follows & honors the US CONSTITUTION, where the states govern themselves without any interference from the NATIONAL sector, and where EVERYBODY prospers without taking from one another. The key thing that will make this work---is that we have to stop looking at each other as INDIVIDUALS & realize deep-down we're all the same; we're no different when it comes to us agreeing on the fact that we're not pleased with how POWER-MAD those that are supposed to be looking out for the best interests of the people-at-large....aren't. There are more of us than them than you think---the hacker group ANONYMOUS proved that; if anything is going to TRULY CHANGE....WE must decide to do so & be damned with what the consequences may bring!!!! Nobody really wants to be that LONE VOICE in defiance of a corrupt EMPIRE/DICTATORSHIP---together, we ALL become the VOICE that shakes their heavens & lets them know: "NO MORE---THE MADNESS ENDS"!!!!!! Sanity & Reason are needed more than ever to put our country back to what it was intended to be from the very beginning the way the US CONSTITUTION had intended; IT CAN BE DONE---WE ARE NOT THAT FAR GONE AS A NATION YET!!!!!!!!!!!
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