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If good guys had guns in Paris!

Posted by GaryL 4 years, 11 months ago to Politics
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130 dead and well over 200 seriously injured and no one had a gun except the bad guys. Have to love all these anti gun countries where only the bad guys and cops have guns. The bad guys also had hand grenades, TNT and suicide belts so just eight barbarian animals can set the entire world on fire and here in the US they want to ban our guns from the law abiding citizens. Just what we need, more laws for the criminals to break and no defense.


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  • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 11 months ago
    That was the first thing that went through my mind. Why are they bothering France, when US has by far the largest global military presence and has pornography and all that? Maybe it's b/c US citizens are more likely to be armed and shoot back.
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    • Posted by strugatsky 4 years, 11 months ago
      They are bothering with France because they already have a strong support network there. Organized terrorism can be successful only with an established support network, otherwise it becomes unreliable and more often than not the attacks are foiled before they even begin. The more "refugees" western countries take, the more they enable the support networks.
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    • Posted by salta 4 years, 11 months ago
      It was not a military operation, it was terrorism. They need a soft target when their objective is to kill as many innocents as possible.
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      • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 11 months ago
        To understand the basics of modern day terrorism google the following. Tupamaros Uruguay 1960's; The Cycle of Repression (as applied by a government rather than a revolution) Marighella Mini Manual for the Urban Guerrila. I do not recommend Che he was both a loser and a fool. Even Castro recognized that rhetoric and talk do not a revolution make.

        Follow up with the quote from Hillary.. "
        Never let a good crisis go to waste."

        That will get you started. The modern difference is terrorists who are also suicidal and have the advantages of numbers and being invited into the target areas.
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        • Posted by Lysander 4 years, 11 months ago
          Don't forget Liberation Theology as well, the book is A Theology of Liberation by Gustavo Gutierrez
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          • Posted by $ MichaelAarethun 4 years, 11 months ago
            Another Gracias! Prolific writer more common in Latin America so I didn't place it the North American sector. My mistake we are approaching 20% Spanish speakers give or take.. Adding an edit I hopped over to Amazon and went with Kindle. In looking at it for the first time ins some years I see it's spread to even greater parts of North America and the rest of the world. so another Gracias.
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  • Posted by $ allosaur 4 years, 11 months ago
    This why I carry a pocket pistol in my right front pocket where I used to carry my wallet.
    The armed guard at the credit union I use does not know I ignore the sign that says only law enforcement officers may carry guns.
    As long as there is not a detection device or a pat down, old limping dino will be able to defend himself. And I shoot straight.
    My grown son prefers to carry a larger piston in his belt concealed behind his back.
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  • Posted by DrZarkov99 4 years, 11 months ago
    This also brings to mind Anders Brevik in Norway, who carried out a leisurely process of slaughter, killing over 70 unarmed people, acting alone. I anticipate more violence aimed at the Scandinavian countries, now that they've been flooded with "refugees."
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  • Posted by jetmec 4 years, 11 months ago
    Didn't you know the few rule the masses! if some one had a gun there they would have shot the bomber but guess who would have gone to jail for saving all the people who died
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  • Posted by $ Susanne 4 years, 11 months ago
    What was that famous line... oh yeah...

    "Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of their country..."

    Knew I learned that in high school typing class for some good reason... (Do they even still teach typing as a class in school??)

    To arms... To arms... the meance is coming...
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  • Posted by handyman 4 years, 11 months ago
    That thought ran through my head as soon as I first heard the new unfolding about this disaster. It isn't a whole lot better there in NY either, is it? Here in western NC, it would not be unusual for a few people to be carrying - at least in some venues.
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    • Posted by 4 years, 11 months ago
      NY is a heck of a lot bigger than NY City! In the big cities is where the gun free zones prevail but out in rural NY I am quite sure we are as well armed as western NC. Our Governor is certainly anti gun but our county Sheriffs are in almost complete disagreement.
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  • Posted by ChuckyBob 4 years, 11 months ago
    Established networks are a two edged sword. The more folks in your network, the more chance there is of an information leak, thus exposing the network. The network needs to be just big enough to get access to resources and no bigger. These guys in France were amateurs. They had no training in trade craft. They left all kinds of evidence to allow their trail to be followed. If they actually knew what they were doing things would have been much worse.
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  • Posted by TomSwift 4 years, 11 months ago
    Great. One guy pulls out his pistol to start shooting wildly at the terrorists in the crowded room. Another guy sees the first guy pull out his pistol and thinks he is involved with the attack and starts to shoot at him. In his panic, he misses and starts hitting other scrambling people in the crowded room. The third guy, seeing someone who looks like they are shooting into the crowd, starts to shoot at him, causing even more damage. If you do happen to hit one of the bad guys with your pistol, you would probably have to be close to him. His accomplices turn and kill you then promptly go about their business.

    Real life is not a movie. You are not Rambo.
    Not anti-gun at all but just realistic.
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    • Posted by 4 years, 11 months ago
      Nice scenario TS but highly flawed! Do you really think all cops are trained in confrontational gun fights? I can tell you from many years on my departments gun range that many cops have a hard enough time just qualifying on a paper target while many others do bring themselves to a much higher standard. So, you think a good guy with a gun could get shot by another good guy with his own gun while the bad guys are blasting away. How about an on duty plain clothes cop doing his job? When ever the cops do storm these fanatics there is almost always some civilians that do get hurt or killed but then you have to consider with no good guns they might have been killed anyway. I do agree we do not need a bunch of gun totting cowboys in every crowd who have not versed themselves on the laws and rules of engagement but can also tell you I damn sure want me and a few others like me with guns when TSHTF.
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 11 months ago
      "In his panic, he misses and starts hitting other scrambling people in the crowded room."
      This certainly could happen. But what's the alternative? I don't want to leave self-defense to the professionals. Beyond the security benefits, there's a cultural benefit in expecting citizens to have some right and responsibility for their own protection and for trying to stay calm and not panic in an emergency.
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      • Posted by TomSwift 4 years, 11 months ago
        I don't know. We can't have untrained idiots waving pistols in the air and going everywhere while constantly watched by security forces is unappealing as well. As long as there is trouble in the Middle East and as long as people there are unwilling to look at the root causes (Islam and the hatred of Jews), there will always be trouble. The countries surrounding Israel have to allow the Palestinians the right to enter these countries and they need to accept that Israel is here to stay. Israel needs to get rid of its state religion and become secular and to finally deal with the religious issues over ownership of land and artifacts. Finally, countries in the Middle East need to stop financing terrorism.

        Should be completed in a month. No problem. :)
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    • Posted by strugatsky 4 years, 11 months ago
      Oh, yes, the scare scenario that every anti-gunner screams about (talking points, anyone?). In fact, in all mass shootings where a good guy with a gun fired back at the shooter, this scenario has never happened. Neither did the police ever shoot the good guy because he had a gun. As a scare tactic - yes; possible - yes; did it ever happen - no! Meanwhile, a number of mass shootings have been stopped (some before they began) by a good guy with a gun. Moral of the story - don't follow your feelings; follow the facts.
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    • Posted by nsnelson 4 years, 11 months ago
      Anybody can make up hypothetical scenarios on either side of the debate. The fact is that there are more defensive uses of handguns than criminal uses. Most criminals seek soft targets (e.g., "gun-free zones").

      You say it is highly unlikely that an armed good guy might stop a tragedy? I'm not saying it is probable (we never know the situation in advance), but I do believe it might give potential victims more of a chance. A chance they certainly deserve, don't we agree? Your claim is difficult to disprove by the stats due to the nature of the case. If a gunman kills 15 people, it instantly makes national news for weeks, along with immediate cries for more gun control (ignoring that the tragedy happened in a "gun free zone"...until it wasn't). But to show that what you claim is unlikely, we can't just say go back in time and try again with an armed citizen; we need to look to potential massacres that were stopped, which means they were not news-making massacres. This happens regularly, but is not widely reported. If a good guy stops a shooter after only a few casualties (or none), it might make a local paper that day, but that's the end of it. Those stories can be found, but not in the mainstream media's narrative. Those stories can be found, but will not convince each other, so also most people convinced by the mainstream media do not want to look at conflicting data and stories.

      But even if the stats are wrong, it is the principle of the matter. We have the right to life. That right is meaningless without the right to self-defense. That right is meaningless without the right to equip ourselves with the tools efficient for self-defense.
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    • Posted by jerci6 4 years, 11 months ago
      That is a great number of assumptions. If the first of them is wrong and that person aims carefully, the media never report the matter, the police arrest that person and many now dead people go on with their lives. Disappointing scenario, eh?
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      • Posted by TomSwift 4 years, 11 months ago
        Right. And totally unrealistic. Unless the civilian initially shooting is specially trained for attack and defensive situations under hostile enemy fire, he is not going to coolly act accordingly. I was in the Army for ten years (ten years ago) and would like to think I would take a steady bead on the bad guy, take him down and be the hero. In reality I would either have a heart attack since my cardio has gone to shit, or cower under a seat. It is really easy to armchair quarterback after the fact.
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        • Posted by kevinw 4 years, 11 months ago
          Then the more of you that are armed, the better, Eh?
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          • Posted by TomSwift 4 years, 11 months ago
            Uh, no. That's my point. Although I like to think I am qualified, I probably would not be. The same goes for those Mac Bolan fans as well. Again, I am not sure of the answer about how to balance these two contradictory ideas. I would like to think better training would be a good start.
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            • Posted by 4 years, 11 months ago
              Better training and the very best equipment has been an ongoing battle by every police department and law enforcement agency all over this country. In a nut shell We don't want to pay for it! Heck, my department complained about one eight hour day of range training per year and a grand total of 60 rounds of ammunition per man per year.
              A gun is a tool. We all have a hammer but not all of us know how to use it or can call ourselves carpenters. Some cops strap a gun on every day and are horrible shots and hope they never have to use the gun. Other cops and many thousands of sportsman take the initiative to become proficient with the tools and their guns and can shoot the eyes out a snake and carry a gun safely. If you are such a person then I want you armed everywhere I go. With my gun or not it will brake my heart if any member of my family got shot and I did not do all I could at that very moment to protect them. I would rather die fighting then watch my family getting slaughtered while I play dead.
              Guns and ammunition should be made much cheaper rather than more expensive and even unobtainable in many cases. Anti gun nuts in this country are the first to beg for a cop with a gun when faced with such force while men like me would rather have the cops come and clean up the mess after I do my job and protect myself and my family.
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            • Posted by kevinw 4 years, 11 months ago
              Restricting gun carry to the "well trained" is a can of worms and akin to what the gun control advocates are trying to do anyway. IE... Police and military only.

              If it's you and me in a crowded theater and someone starts shooting people, I'd rather get shot by you accidentally then get shot by some POS shouting alwho ockbar.
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  • Posted by johnpe1 4 years, 11 months ago
    the groupthink which produces the idea that banning
    guns from the mentally challenged somehow forgets
    that most murderers don't seem to be mentally challenged.

    it's like banning ice cream because some people
    throw ice cream cones in a food fight. -- j
    .
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    • Posted by CircuitGuy 4 years, 11 months ago
      Similarly, all the focus is on banning guns that shoot many bullets and shoot them fast, despite the fact that the vast majority of gun crime are one- or two-victim crimes and don't involve shooting many bullets fast.
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  • Posted by term2 4 years, 11 months ago
    The real think that stops people trying to do harm to others is the determination of others (and dogs for that matter) to just not allow it.

    I have two pitt bulls and thieves know the dogs observe, make their decision, then go after the perps without any discussion. The result is I havent been robbed for many many years.

    If the bad guys know that people on a plane they want to hijack will just do whatever it takes to stop them without discussion and worry about political correctness- the bad guys will be deterred.

    In Paris, if there was that determination and guns to back it up, I suspect the death toll and future attacks would be a LOT less
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  • Posted by Herb7734 4 years, 11 months ago
    If I had the power, I would strap anti-gun people down and force them to listen to the Bach Choral Prelude called "Sleepers Awake." OK, so I'm dealing in symbolism. I would however do the following: Secretly place a gun I n a very obvious place in the home of a prominent anti-gun leader. Then have some jihadists burst into his home and threaten his family. I wonder if he'd reach for the gun. OK, now I've gone from symbolism to fantasy. But the stupidity of the anti-gunners is so astounding, that normal arguments just drop out of my head.
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  • Posted by scojohnson 4 years, 11 months ago
    I didn't see a single person on CNN or MSNBC calling for more gun control in France. Hell, this one incident is probably more than all the school shootings here over the past decade totaled up.
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    • Posted by TheRealBill 4 years, 11 months ago
      I suspect the answer as to why it isn't happening is one simple word: terrorism.

      With the Hebdo attack there as a call for it. I don't think we will see it here because people have placed terrorism and general crime involving guns into two distinct categories. We even have a legal distinction for it.

      But because it was an act of terrorists rather then "mere" criminals the French public is unlikely to connect the two. After all, terrorists are clearly bad outsiders who don't follow the laws, but criminals are just people who might follow the law.

      The fact that this involved bombs will make the gun aspect even smaller, and emphasize it as being "different". The fact that it involved weapons in their highest classification will do the same.

      And yes, there is high cognitive dissonance potential for those among them who dare to actually think and reason about it.
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      • Posted by strugatsky 4 years, 11 months ago
        I have no doubts that there will be more attacks in France. Probably in a different city. They'll wait until the French pull more forces into Paris and then strike elsewhere. The French are just too easy, juicy and stupid of a target. After the next attack, the French will formally surrender (in keeping with their tradition).
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  • Posted by lmarrott 4 years, 11 months ago
    I have no way of being sure, and I am definitely pro-gun and am looking into carrying more regularly, but would armed citizens have saved that many people in the case of suicide bombings?

    I don't know enough of the specifics of the three bombings though, so maybe.
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